frog

Stu, had a thought over the week end.

As I understand it, your closed loop setup monitors fuelling off boost.

Would it be possible to monitor the output of the lambda sensor on boost and provide some kind of warning light output if the fuelling drops dangerously lean ?
I appreciate it might be pushing the limits of the ECU's capabilities, but would be a very useful form of basic lambda control without the expense of the full AFR meter, etc...

Anonymous

the lambda sensor doesnt read anything that is useful on boost.

at 13:1 you would be lean enough to risk a meltdown and the lamda sensor would be saying "very rich"



Just buy a wideband that has an alarm (like the one stu uses himself in fact i believe!)

frog

Does the conversion work with a narrowband sensor then I thought it required a wideband, hence my idea

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

no off boot fueling is controlled by a narrow band sensors. Thats why those silly autometer gauges that people hook up to the standard lambda sensors are usless in the real world

Anonymous

If it had a wideband, you could just fit a guage for pennies anyway, the gauge is the cheap bit of a wideband setup, its the sensor and the controller that cost the money

frog

That confuses me

I know , we've got one, and it's more use as a christmas decoration than anything else (came with the car btw).

chip
Surely, if you have stu's conversion fitted, you'd need another wideband sensor to hook up to the controller, or, can one sensor be used for both purposes ?

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

Sorry that was a reply to your original question and there should have been a comma after the No lol

As in "no" it would not be possible due to using a narrow band sensor.


And yes your correct the two sensors would be suited to the two seperate jobs. (hence some cars having two probes in the downpipe or one with a standard lamdba in the exhaust housing and then an EGT in the downpipe +a wideband)

Anonymous

I was working on your totally incorrect assumption that stu's conversion used a wideband, it doesnt.

What i was getting at, was if the ECU could see that, then so could a gauge, but obviously it CANT see that, which is what makes your post so pointless

gingeRS

that was neils favourite purchase

keep trying to tell him that it didn't serve a purpose, but he was having none of it

i'm considering stu's closed loop conversion? have you got it, noticed any difference?

frog

My confusion deepens....

Just to clarify then
-The conversion uses a narrowband sensor.
-Which is unsuitable for on-boost measurements.
So, no, the conversion cannot be extended to warn of lean conditions on boost.

chip When you say "the ECU can't see that", do you mean the ECU couldn't read off a wide-band sensor at all without complex circuitry (e.g. controller) ?

gingeRS
I don't have the conversion no, but was wondering if it could serve a dual benefit
Everyone who's had it fitted swears by it though

Anonymous

CORRECT

CORRECT

CORRECT

silky16v

iTrader: (1)

both the saph & escort had stu's closed chip fitted both have seen instant off boost MPG increase

gingeRS

so even though my car HAS the standard ford lambda?

the stage 3 conversion, doesnt use this? so i get overfuelling off boost, and when cruising?

my car just did 205 miles on 49 quids worth of super, and that includes a trip to santa pod and back (motorway cruising)

may invest soon.

Andreas

Aint some wideband setups able to provide a low band signal so that you only have to run the wideband sensor and the relay the lowband signal on to the ECU?

foreigneRS

frog the conversion can use a wideband sensor as long as the controller gives a simulated narrowband output (0 - 1V) which most of them do.

the ecu could also use a wideband sensor with wideband output (0 - 5V) if you added another small piece of hardware (called a hybrid unit) to the board and could use target wideband values if programmed cleverly.

Anonymous

Yes, but as you are only talking about 20 quid for a narrowband sensor i personally would always use a seperate one.

As that way you can "sanity check" your wideband as it should be on 14.7 on cruise, if its not, you know that its going out of calibration as the narrow bands do what they do far longer and far more reliabley than a wideband does.

If you link it how you said, and then the wideband is out of calibration, it will drag your engine out of stoich inline with it and will still read normally.

Anonymous

Thus though, its NOT what frog was asking originally you still have an expensive wideband and the ECU is still effectively narrowband


I dont believe that many tuners would agree with using target wideband values on boost, i personally wouldnt want to trust it.

frog

Thanks guys

foreigneRS

who said anything about on boost?

Anonymous

Fair one, was meaning for the purposes of this thread.

Target of 15.2:1 on very steady cruise sounds good to me though mate!

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Bloody hell

You want to get that sorted, thats less than 20mpg on a run

I get about 27mpg on a run and thats without closed loop.

Steve.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Hi Greg, i believe all your questions have now been answered, but feel free to ask for clarification if required pal.

frog

Thanks Stu, they have, just need to ask my bank manager a few questions now for some toys

gingeRS

thats about 120 miles crusing, 3 runs at the pod and maybe 70 miles, round town, high consumption, short journeys

pretty crappy eh?

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

I still get 27mpg driving to the Pod and doing as many runs as i can, and a bit of a play going to and from

Steve.

gingeRS

is that with closed loop? if so, i gotta get me some of that

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

No

Steve

gingeRS

better get who ever set yours up to do mine

i know mine runs really rich cos i have seen the vids of my runs from the pod, and theres a big puff of soot as i pull off each time

also mines 4x4 which also drains the fuel economy

Anonymous

How rich it is on boost isnt always an indication of how rich it is off boost, there are LOTS of cossies out there running too rich at one point and too lean at another.

Running too rich is quite expensive, running too lean is potentially VERY expensive

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Mine is a A1 chip, then set up by EA.

Steve.

Butch.

iTrader: (1)

ive just had a closed loop system and a mapping session over the last few days at stus and the car is now flying also on the way home i was cruising down the motorway at speeds between 70-90 mph and by the time i got home i had done 200 miles and only used just under half a tank of fuel

would recommend to have fitted well worth the money