WONT START FOR TOFFEE'\*$
19-05-2006, 06:34 PM
#1
garibaldi
Thread Starter
WONT START FOR TOFFEE'\*$
where on earth do i start eh? (series 2 by the way)
Yesterday me car when being turned off , would not restart and i put it down to the starter motor. Luckily i took another battery and she started.
So today i thought i would just check the alternator was all ok. I tightened it all up, started the car and was fine. I did 5oo yards before BANG POP the car cut out
I ripped off the alternator as it was fried, and then me mate came around who duly helped me fit another alternator which came of his car
Did a few miles and broke down again. 30 minutes later car still wouldnt start and then a mechanic got his booster pack out to help me. Car started.
I then got as far as about 5 miles (which was then 5 miles away from my house) and again the car cut out.
Called AA, i forgot to renew me membership so i am not covered Luckily me other mate only works half a day on Fridays, so i called him. 20 minutes later he comes to rescue me with another battery. I then travel home and all is ok, turns engine off, does not restart.
As it happens i have a big mother fooker heavy duty 1.8 diesel starter and i fitted that along with a mate who stayed to help me out.
I run it to working temp, gave it a run, sounds better. Turns engine off then doesnt start
WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please help me
Yesterday me car when being turned off , would not restart and i put it down to the starter motor. Luckily i took another battery and she started.
So today i thought i would just check the alternator was all ok. I tightened it all up, started the car and was fine. I did 5oo yards before BANG POP the car cut out
I ripped off the alternator as it was fried, and then me mate came around who duly helped me fit another alternator which came of his car
Did a few miles and broke down again. 30 minutes later car still wouldnt start and then a mechanic got his booster pack out to help me. Car started.
I then got as far as about 5 miles (which was then 5 miles away from my house) and again the car cut out.
Called AA, i forgot to renew me membership so i am not covered Luckily me other mate only works half a day on Fridays, so i called him. 20 minutes later he comes to rescue me with another battery. I then travel home and all is ok, turns engine off, does not restart.
As it happens i have a big mother fooker heavy duty 1.8 diesel starter and i fitted that along with a mate who stayed to help me out.
I run it to working temp, gave it a run, sounds better. Turns engine off then doesnt start
WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please help me
19-05-2006, 06:56 PM
#4
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Bad earth from chassis to engine.....this would cause it not to charge properly and when hot earth is worse so would take more to start it.......?????????
Had this happen on one of my RS Turbo's
Had this happen on one of my RS Turbo's
20-05-2006, 12:53 AM
#6
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Had 6 RS turbos and all sufered the same fault. The starter is getting cooked by the turbo. Series 2's, Ford do a clip on heat sheild, but the Series 1 you have to make you own. 
20-05-2006, 01:04 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by Ian3dr
Had 6 RS turbos and all sufered the same fault. The starter is getting cooked by the turbo. Series 2's, Ford do a clip on heat sheild, but the Series 1 you have to make you own.
I've had exactly that happen on my series 1
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20-05-2006, 07:02 AM
#8
I think you are all jumping the gunm a bit here folks....
The car is stopping first, before it wont restart, that isnt indicative of the starter motor.
When its stopped and wont start, does the motor actually turn over when you engage the key?
May well have 2 seperate problem here...
The car is stopping first, before it wont restart, that isnt indicative of the starter motor.
When its stopped and wont start, does the motor actually turn over when you engage the key?
May well have 2 seperate problem here...
20-05-2006, 08:08 AM
#9
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Up with Stu.
If you dont have a heat shield for the turbo this will not doubt upset the starter.
Loads of things you can do. I cured mine with heat wrap on starter motor and downpipe and all was ok.
The chap who bought the car off me went another step and got a slim line starter off of a Zetec.
But cutting out?? Could be loads of things but the fact it seems to be restarting afterwards with booster packs. I would be cheking Earths/Voltages from Alternator and at the battery.
If you dont have a heat shield for the turbo this will not doubt upset the starter.
Loads of things you can do. I cured mine with heat wrap on starter motor and downpipe and all was ok.
The chap who bought the car off me went another step and got a slim line starter off of a Zetec.
But cutting out?? Could be loads of things but the fact it seems to be restarting afterwards with booster packs. I would be cheking Earths/Voltages from Alternator and at the battery.
20-05-2006, 09:14 AM
#11
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
When its stopped and wont start, does the motor actually turn over when you engage the key?
20-05-2006, 09:17 AM
#14
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by xr4x4rs
id say starter now then
sounds like its fried mate
have you tried a different starter?
sounds like its fried mate
have you tried a different starter?
at 0935 this morning, i started her no problem
20-05-2006, 09:18 AM
#15
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Thing is if it is fried why isnt the battery charging. ??
I peeled away some black tape where there are 3 connections.
I will take a pic and post it in 5 mins if thats easier
I peeled away some black tape where there are 3 connections.
I will take a pic and post it in 5 mins if thats easier
20-05-2006, 09:29 AM
#16
garibaldi
Thread Starter
right, now all the tape is off and stuff, the blue wire is now exposed and not attatched to one of the connectors and is now hanging lose from the main loom under the radiator.
Where does that go?
The cable from the alternator to the starter has 2 red cables and a black one. The black one is now disconnected from the connector and is now hanging loose
Where does that go?
Other than that it appears ok.
**last night tho there still was no battery light on start up coming on in the dash**
Where does that go?
The cable from the alternator to the starter has 2 red cables and a black one. The black one is now disconnected from the connector and is now hanging loose
Where does that go?
Other than that it appears ok.
**last night tho there still was no battery light on start up coming on in the dash**
20-05-2006, 09:50 AM
#17
theres your problem its not charging
if that blue wire is disconnected it tells the alternator not to charge
other words u need that blue wire connected as this is your bat light aswell
basically its a live off your alternator to starter motor
starter to battery
the blue wire will have a connecter somewhere by the starteron the cross member think it comes with teh crank wire for the starter
also that black wire u pictured id say should be blue lol
if that blue wire is disconnected it tells the alternator not to charge
other words u need that blue wire connected as this is your bat light aswell
basically its a live off your alternator to starter motor
starter to battery
the blue wire will have a connecter somewhere by the starteron the cross member think it comes with teh crank wire for the starter
also that black wire u pictured id say should be blue lol
20-05-2006, 09:57 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by xr4x4rs
theres your problem its not charging
if that blue wire is disconnected it tells the alternator not to charge
other words u need that blue wire connected as this is your bat light aswell
basically its a live off your alternator to starter motor
starter to battery
the blue wire will have a connecter somewhere by the starteron the cross member think it comes with the crank wire for the starter
also that black wire u pictured id say should be blue lol
if that blue wire is disconnected it tells the alternator not to charge
other words u need that blue wire connected as this is your bat light aswell
basically its a live off your alternator to starter motor
starter to battery
the blue wire will have a connecter somewhere by the starteron the cross member think it comes with the crank wire for the starter
also that black wire u pictured id say should be blue lol
The blue wire connects to the main loom that runs across the cross member and is usually a bullet connector. This blue wire earths the battery warning light when the alternator isn't charging. It is also needed to "excite" the windings in the alternator to make it charge.
You should have a red or a pair of red wires or even a pair joined into a single wire between the starter main battery feed and the alternator main battery feed.
I can't really tell much from those pictures to be honest!!
Try moving the camera back a bit and taking some more pictures.
20-05-2006, 10:01 AM
#19
sorry to early in morning and havnt sept plus got shit loads going on lol
bascially i was told that if you had no battery light the alternator wouldnt charge
as his battery light wire is broke ( blue wire) its not charging
in the pics above the red wires look correct but what he says about the black wire i rekon its the blue other half of the blue wire
if he connects that back up together he will have a batt light and the car should be ok again id say
bascially i was told that if you had no battery light the alternator wouldnt charge
as his battery light wire is broke ( blue wire) its not charging
in the pics above the red wires look correct but what he says about the black wire i rekon its the blue other half of the blue wire
if he connects that back up together he will have a batt light and the car should be ok again id say
20-05-2006, 10:10 AM
#20
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by xr4x4rs
in the pics above the red wires look correct but what he says about the black wire i rekon its the blue other half of the blue wire
if he connects that back up together he will have a batt light and the car should be ok again id say
if he connects that back up together he will have a batt light and the car should be ok again id say
the sound of the engine note also does not change when the 2 wires are put together, like i would have expected them to be when charging
20-05-2006, 10:13 AM
#21
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It should be a blue wire within the Ford main loom too.
Get a test lamp, clip one end to the engine block and the other end to the black wire. If the battery warning light glows then thats the wire. It will also mean that there is a fault with the alternator or connection if you connect that to the blue and it still doesn't light up...
Get a test lamp, clip one end to the engine block and the other end to the black wire. If the battery warning light glows then thats the wire. It will also mean that there is a fault with the alternator or connection if you connect that to the blue and it still doesn't light up...
20-05-2006, 10:25 AM
#23
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by DazC
It should be a blue wire within the Ford main loom too.
Get a test lamp, clip one end to the engine block and the other end to the black wire. .
Get a test lamp, clip one end to the engine block and the other end to the black wire. .
done that and me bulb doesnt light up. so am i right in thinking that its this cable from the alternator to the starter thats at fault then now?
20-05-2006, 10:31 AM
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The alternator will charge without the batt light, my bulb for it has popped and I can't be arsed to get the clocks out to replace it but I still see 14v on my turbo timer, I just have to blip the throttle when I start it to get the alternator to kick in...
20-05-2006, 10:46 AM
#27
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by xr4x4rs
have you tried earthing the blue wire out of main loom
to see if your batt light comes on
im almost 100% sure it will
to see if your batt light comes on
im almost 100% sure it will
then
wire from same join to earth?
if so theres no light still and no power to the test bulb
wiring is not me strongest point lo
20-05-2006, 10:56 AM
#29
20K+ Super Poster.
go and buy one from halfords, as you cant diagnose shit without one (ps you'll have to walk to halfords, as your car doesn't work 
)
1st test before anything else, check if the alt is actually charging or not
)1st test before anything else, check if the alt is actually charging or not
20-05-2006, 10:59 AM
#30
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Jim Galbally
go and buy one from halfords, as you cant diagnose shit without one (ps you'll have to walk to halfords, as your car doesn't work )
:
):
its only 6 miles away
i have called me mate and he is bringing one around shortly
20-05-2006, 11:43 AM
#31
ok
where you joined the black and blue wire together
split them up again
the blue wire that is coming out of main car loom by rad just earth it anywhere
turn igntion on your bat light should come on, if it doesnt then theres a break in that wire somewhere, if it does then theres a problem with that black wire
if you get a batt light just run a new wire from the blue wire to the alternator on the push on fitting
where you joined the black and blue wire together
split them up again
the blue wire that is coming out of main car loom by rad just earth it anywhere
turn igntion on your bat light should come on, if it doesnt then theres a break in that wire somewhere, if it does then theres a problem with that black wire
if you get a batt light just run a new wire from the blue wire to the alternator on the push on fitting
20-05-2006, 11:53 AM
#32
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by xr4x4rs
ok
the blue wire that is coming out of main car loom by rad just earth it anywhere
the blue wire that is coming out of main car loom by rad just earth it anywhere
20-05-2006, 12:01 PM
#34
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by xr4x4rs
now your going to need a multimeter
basically do a continuity test to see where the break is in that wire
basically do a continuity test to see where the break is in that wire
20-05-2006, 12:45 PM
#35
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on a different note,does your car now have quads and open mouth bumper,with chrome bumper inserts?? saw a S2 yesterday when i was in Wolverhampton
20-05-2006, 02:55 PM
#36
garibaldi
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by bud-weis
on a different note,does your car now have quads and open mouth bumper,with chrome bumper inserts?? saw a S2 yesterday when i was in Wolverhampton
20-05-2006, 03:29 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Wes RS
The alternator will charge without the batt light, my bulb for it has popped and I can't be arsed to get the clocks out to replace it but I still see 14v on my turbo timer, I just have to blip the throttle when I start it to get the alternator to kick in...
Old Ford alternators WILL NOT charge if the warning light does not work!
Right. On the back of the dash clocks there is 2 long plugs. One will have a blue wire in it. This blue wire runs down with the main loom all the way to the front cross member and then connects to the alternator.
Basically what happens is when you turn on the ignition, you send power to one side of the battery light bulb. The power flows through the bulb and down to the alternator and earths through the alternator. When the alternator starts charging, the voltage increases inside the alternator to the point where it equalises and the bulb loses it's earth. The Alternator needs this signal from the battery warning light to excite it's windings (basically switch it on).
The black wire is a mystery so forget that for now.
20-05-2006, 09:55 PM
#39
garibaldi
Thread Starter
right i have just got back in from outside
been and got another alternator borrowed off a mate. The car turned over and no battery light
I drove down the road with lights on and shit, the battery light came on. So it now appears the alternator is not charging the battery even tho this is the 3rd alternator
any ideas now??
Beacuse at least now i can work on the theory that the blue wire works (and yes the leads have now been changed from the alt to starter so its now blue to blue)
so i guess and according to me mate that thers an issues between battery and alt. If so what?
been and got another alternator borrowed off a mate. The car turned over and no battery light
I drove down the road with lights on and shit, the battery light came on. So it now appears the alternator is not charging the battery even tho this is the 3rd alternator
any ideas now??
Beacuse at least now i can work on the theory that the blue wire works (and yes the leads have now been changed from the alt to starter so its now blue to blue)
so i guess and according to me mate that thers an issues between battery and alt. If so what?
21-05-2006, 09:36 AM
#40
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look, get a multimeter across the battery terminals and find out exactly what its doing, until you do that youre just guessing