Handling Questions
24-04-2006, 10:31 PM
#1
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Handling Questions
Has anyone raced a cossie around a track with the latest jap cars like evo 9s, skylines, scoobys? Can a cossie with 1980s suspension/design beat them on a proper race track, considering similar horsepower and driving prowess? 
24-04-2006, 10:47 PM
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No doubt it would be different when the cars were both specced up to do the job they were made for.. I bet an Escos WRC can still flip, flop and slide round a rally course as well as any other WRC car. From the videos i've seen of the Escos WRC cars they drive within seconds of the latest rally cars. 
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24-05-2006, 02:10 PM
#8
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Even with coilovers n poly bushes they still aint up to much compared to them with handling.
Proper tyres, and most importantly, proper suspension geometry, and they a whole load better.
Still generally get beat with like for like mods TBH
Can be made pretty awesome, but so can most cars. MAIN big advantage of a Cossie is a fucking awesome engine.
And character, i jus like Cossies, same as most here do.
Proper tyres, and most importantly, proper suspension geometry, and they a whole load better.
Still generally get beat with like for like mods TBH
Can be made pretty awesome, but so can most cars. MAIN big advantage of a Cossie is a fucking awesome engine.
And character, i jus like Cossies, same as most here do.
24-05-2006, 02:40 PM
#10
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the fronts are easy too sort,,, coil overs, adjustable top mounts, adjustable TCA's, compression struts, bladed anti roll bar,,,
when it comes too the rear it gets a little tricky
when it comes too the rear it gets a little tricky
24-05-2006, 02:55 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by GARETH T
the fronts are easy too sort,,, coil overs, adjustable top mounts, adjustable TCA's, compression struts, bladed anti roll bar,,,
when it comes too the rear it gets a little tricky
when it comes too the rear it gets a little tricky
and where can I get adjustable top mounts, adjustable TCA's, compression struts, bladed anti roll bar?
25-05-2006, 09:26 AM
#12
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Originally Posted by Cosing
Originally Posted by GARETH T
the fronts are easy too sort,,, coil overs, adjustable top mounts, adjustable TCA's, compression struts, bladed anti roll bar,,,
when it comes too the rear it gets a little tricky
when it comes too the rear it gets a little tricky
and where can I get adjustable top mounts, adjustable TCA's, compression struts, bladed anti roll bar? im sure he can point your back end in the right direction aswell
25-05-2006, 09:35 AM
#13
Yes they can be made to be MORE than a match for modern stuff with the correct mods, as my final position in a (by comparison) low powered heavy Escort Cosworth proved in last year's GT Battle 
.
Running FULL interior and PROPER road spec tyres and with the boost turned down (approx 400bhp TOPS) to prevent a misfire (later discovered to be a corroded lead / coilpack connector), I finished just 1.5s behind Jap cars that were stripped out, running Dunlop D01J tyres and with at least 150bhp more....
Like for like power, I am sure the positions would have been reversed...
.Running FULL interior and PROPER road spec tyres and with the boost turned down (approx 400bhp TOPS) to prevent a misfire (later discovered to be a corroded lead / coilpack connector), I finished just 1.5s behind Jap cars that were stripped out, running Dunlop D01J tyres and with at least 150bhp more....
Like for like power, I am sure the positions would have been reversed...
25-05-2006, 09:41 AM
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i have to be honest,my saff handles pretty shite compared to EVO's and Scoobies that i've driven......speed wise i find it awesome (comparitively speaking compared to some beasts on here!) but on the twisties it takes a LOT of concentration to go properly fast!
to address this i'd need to spend a couple of grand,which with thoughts of selling up round the corner,is never likely to happen
to address this i'd need to spend a couple of grand,which with thoughts of selling up round the corner,is never likely to happen
25-05-2006, 09:49 AM
#16
Originally Posted by Mike1
Don't forget the "nut behind the steering wheel" Mike...... 
I also know that it would be possible to get a 2wd Sapphire to handle MINT with the right mods (my Sapphire was AWESOME).
25-05-2006, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
I also know that it would be possible to get a 2wd Sapphire to handle MINT with the right mods (my Sapphire was AWESOME).
for free seriously though,give me a run down of prices....make me cry
25-05-2006, 10:00 AM
#18
Some of the stuff is almost impossible to get hold of now (item 1):
1. Sierra Cosworth hubs and TCAs. Ł3-400 (if you can find them)
2. Decent dampers / springs. Ł460 - Ł1250
3. Proper rear beam. Ł800
4. Quaife ATB. Ł1100
5. Geometry set / corner weighted / bump steer removed. Ł2-300 depending what you have done
6. 17" wheels / good tyres. Ł1000
1. Sierra Cosworth hubs and TCAs. Ł3-400 (if you can find them)
2. Decent dampers / springs. Ł460 - Ł1250
3. Proper rear beam. Ł800
4. Quaife ATB. Ł1100
5. Geometry set / corner weighted / bump steer removed. Ł2-300 depending what you have done
6. 17" wheels / good tyres. Ł1000
25-05-2006, 10:05 AM
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That saff was awesome - I nearly lost 9 nuggets and chips on my first ride out in it
Like for like, no comparison though - you need to spend far too much money to make these cars handle.......
Like for like, no comparison though - you need to spend far too much money to make these cars handle.......
25-05-2006, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike1
Didn't Nutter do pretty well at the TOTB handling course one year?
25-05-2006, 10:38 AM
#23
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All i was thinking is that he's got a 3-dr 2wd and did pretty well on the handling course. I'm aware that was in the 2wd section though but I thought he would have been up against 200sxs, Vipers, rwd Skylines etc????
Mike R
Just out of interest Mike, how well do you think you would have done at GT Battle last year in Gareth's car ( if you'd had some familiarisation time obviously ). Do you think you could have won bearing in mind Gareth's margin to second place was pretty big?
Mike R
Just out of interest Mike, how well do you think you would have done at GT Battle last year in Gareth's car ( if you'd had some familiarisation time obviously ). Do you think you could have won bearing in mind Gareth's margin to second place was pretty big?
25-05-2006, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bud-weis
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
I also know that it would be possible to get a 2wd Sapphire to handle MINT with the right mods (my Sapphire was AWESOME).
for free seriously though,give me a run down of prices....make me cry
care to give a rundown of the numbers...
25-05-2006, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by Mike1
Don't forget the "nut behind the steering wheel" Mike......
.
25-05-2006, 11:28 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by DaveEscos
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Originally Posted by Mike1
Don't forget the "nut behind the steering wheel" Mike......
.
25-05-2006, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip2k3
No doubt it would be different when the cars were both specced up to do the job they were made for.. I bet an Escos WRC can still flip, flop and slide round a rally course as well as any other WRC car. From the videos i've seen of the Escos WRC cars they drive within seconds of the latest rally cars.
The Escort didnt do too well in WRC back in the early 90's, so you really think it would be only within seconds of the latest cars!
There seems to be some confusion over the fact that the Escort was no where near as successful in WRC as people seem to think it was. Remember the EVO's and Scoobs came in at that point and kicked arse... edited to add "Oh and the Toyota's.... I forgot how good they were as well"
I LOVE the Escort mind you!
25-05-2006, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Flip2k3
No doubt it would be different when the cars were both specced up to do the job they were made for.. I bet an Escos WRC can still flip, flop and slide round a rally course as well as any other WRC car. From the videos i've seen of the Escos WRC cars they drive within seconds of the latest rally cars.
25-05-2006, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Yes they can be made to be MORE than a match for modern stuff with the correct mods, as my final position in a (by comparison) low powered heavy Escort Cosworth proved in last year's GT Battle .
Running FULL interior and PROPER road spec tyres and with the boost turned down (approx 400bhp TOPS) to prevent a misfire (later discovered to be a corroded lead / coilpack connector), I finished just 1.5s behind Jap cars that were stripped out, running Dunlop D01J tyres and with at least 150bhp more....
Like for like power, I am sure the positions would have been reversed...
.Running FULL interior and PROPER road spec tyres and with the boost turned down (approx 400bhp TOPS) to prevent a misfire (later discovered to be a corroded lead / coilpack connector), I finished just 1.5s behind Jap cars that were stripped out, running Dunlop D01J tyres and with at least 150bhp more....
Like for like power, I am sure the positions would have been reversed...
Get your car around the handling circuit at TOTB and time it against mine with real pony power..... might make you retract that statement!
And I will ensure my car tuns T1R road tyres as well. There is a whole heap of difference between a good setup and a really good setup on these Scoobs (as there is with any car).Remember you also have a weight advantage over my lardy arsed car.
Regardless of this banter (and thats all it is), I would be genuinely interested in how they compare time wise around a tight handling circuit. I think even you may be surprised.
25-05-2006, 12:34 PM
#33
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Gracy and I played at the ring...
Cos 4x4 vs scooby RA
He has 350 I have 300.
I have michiline Energy tyres... he had Fluda's or summat simlar!
He has coil overs and vast brakes - I had standard.
With him on his own and mongo as a passenger my car was faster, and its all on film
Cos 4x4 vs scooby RA
He has 350 I have 300.
I have michiline Energy tyres... he had Fluda's or summat simlar!
He has coil overs and vast brakes - I had standard.
With him on his own and mongo as a passenger my car was faster, and its all on film
25-05-2006, 12:38 PM
#34
............
Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by Flip2k3
No doubt it would be different when the cars were both specced up to do the job they were made for.. I bet an Escos WRC can still flip, flop and slide round a rally course as well as any other WRC car. From the videos i've seen of the Escos WRC cars they drive within seconds of the latest rally cars.
25-05-2006, 12:41 PM
#35
Originally Posted by Fagin
Originally Posted by Mike Rainbird
Yes they can be made to be MORE than a match for modern stuff with the correct mods, as my final position in a (by comparison) low powered heavy Escort Cosworth proved in last year's GT Battle .
Running FULL interior and PROPER road spec tyres and with the boost turned down (approx 400bhp TOPS) to prevent a misfire (later discovered to be a corroded lead / coilpack connector), I finished just 1.5s behind Jap cars that were stripped out, running Dunlop D01J tyres and with at least 150bhp more....
Like for like power, I am sure the positions would have been reversed...
.Running FULL interior and PROPER road spec tyres and with the boost turned down (approx 400bhp TOPS) to prevent a misfire (later discovered to be a corroded lead / coilpack connector), I finished just 1.5s behind Jap cars that were stripped out, running Dunlop D01J tyres and with at least 150bhp more....
Like for like power, I am sure the positions would have been reversed...
Get your car around the handling circuit at TOTB and time it against mine with real pony power..... might make you retract that statement!
And I will ensure my car tuns T1R road tyres as well. There is a whole heap of difference between a good setup and a really good setup on these Scoobs (as there is with any car).Remember you also have a weight advantage over my lardy arsed car.
Regardless of this banter (and thats all it is), I would be genuinely interested in how they compare time wise around a tight handling circuit. I think even you may be surprised.
.Also, unless my car has lost weight, I think it is equal with your Scoob at 1429kg
.What power is your Scoob up to now anyway?
25-05-2006, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by Flip2k3
No doubt it would be different when the cars were both specced up to do the job they were made for.. I bet an Escos WRC can still flip, flop and slide round a rally course as well as any other WRC car. From the videos i've seen of the Escos WRC cars they drive within seconds of the latest rally cars.
Technology, the WRC escos wasnt that great compared to the celica etc when it was around. You think it could hold it's weight against the cars that have 10+ years of technological advancements behind them?
25-05-2006, 12:51 PM
#37
............
Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by Flip2k3
No doubt it would be different when the cars were both specced up to do the job they were made for.. I bet an Escos WRC can still flip, flop and slide round a rally course as well as any other WRC car. From the videos i've seen of the Escos WRC cars they drive within seconds of the latest rally cars.
Technology, the WRC escos wasnt that great when it was around. You think it could hold it's weight against the cars that have 10+ years of technological advancements behind them?
also it's not totally ten years of technology, active centre diffs have been banned have they not?
25-05-2006, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by MattRS1600i
Originally Posted by 89XR2
Originally Posted by Flip2k3
No doubt it would be different when the cars were both specced up to do the job they were made for.. I bet an Escos WRC can still flip, flop and slide round a rally course as well as any other WRC car. From the videos i've seen of the Escos WRC cars they drive within seconds of the latest rally cars.
Technology, the WRC escos wasnt that great when it was around. You think it could hold it's weight against the cars that have 10+ years of technological advancements behind them?
also it's not totally ten years of technology, active centre diffs have been banned have they not?
Oh, and your replies have been far more know it all than my original statement
25-05-2006, 01:06 PM
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Gareth,
Absolutely.... the combination of spring rates and geometry settings can can make huge differences on both uses.
But in essence my car is still a road car, so having spring rates of 65/50 with 3way adjustment on the shocks, means I can have a very good comprimise.
Mike,
Since when have Escorts been that heavy...... the book fully fuelled weight is 1307kgs I thought
Mine weighs 1330kgs fully fuelled and 1445kg's with me and my laptop in.
I presume your car will be up at Elvington at TOTB (even if it's not in the team), so stop poncing on about this fooooking GT Battle as I am sure I could ask Chris if you could have a couple of laps on the handling circuit!
The scoob has miniscule power compared to your Escort. 370-380bhp/360lbft... 1bar at 2600rpm, full boost 1.6bar at 3000rpm and pulls all the way to the 8200rpm rev limit!
Absolutely.... the combination of spring rates and geometry settings can can make huge differences on both uses.
But in essence my car is still a road car, so having spring rates of 65/50 with 3way adjustment on the shocks, means I can have a very good comprimise.
Mike,
Since when have Escorts been that heavy...... the book fully fuelled weight is 1307kgs I thought
Mine weighs 1330kgs fully fuelled and 1445kg's with me and my laptop in.
I presume your car will be up at Elvington at TOTB (even if it's not in the team), so stop poncing on about this fooooking GT Battle as I am sure I could ask Chris if you could have a couple of laps on the handling circuit!
The scoob has miniscule power compared to your Escort. 370-380bhp/360lbft... 1bar at 2600rpm, full boost 1.6bar at 3000rpm and pulls all the way to the 8200rpm rev limit!