david

Exactly mate, you've done nothing wrong at all so why the fuck do they think they have a right to our property

Snowy_Astra

But its all assumptions!

By not filing SORN on insurance and tax, you are instantly made guilty without any evidence of breaking the law.

Why should you have to sign something to assure them that you are not going to break the law?

That's what i'm getting at.

Remember when it came to light that in court the prosocution were not allowed to even ask you if you were the driver of the vehicle when it was flashed by a speed camera?

That's purely because you would be being asked to incriminate yourself, and to ask someone to do that is against the law....

...well, until they closed that loophole off

Really fed up of this country.....see France, you insure yourself, not the car....and they don't have half the problem of uninsured drivers we have, and they are a bigger country than us!

Ginge !

mate when you make a claim or get a producer whos docs are given in


i know mine allows for uninsured cars BUT theres the problem of parking a car on the road with no insurance when you get out


but he aint talking shite mate, im with norwich union and thats why ive never left em

david

Innocent until proven guilty.

Say you want to insure the car for 1 day so it can go to the paintshop or something similar, they cant do fuck all about it.

Lloyd

last week,some neighbours of mine,where chased by the police for something. they made it home and parked on the driveway,then ran in the house.the police got a truck and took the car away. great news ,2 days later, they have another car

RichardC

this is just my opinion,

'die hard' uninsured drivers and TAX/MOT dodgers have probably never held insurance, or bothered to TAX or MOT thier cars, so they will not appear on any database, so running a registration system will only effect those people who have previously held insurance, tax, mot etc. Wont effect the pikeys at all. Only those normally law abiding citizens, who may have forgotten to inform the correct authorities, many with genuine reasons, are the ones getting caught.

It wont help catch the die hard pikey bastards, who even if caught, will never pay a fine or just move, or give incorrect information.

The whole reasoning behind it is flawed, but thats just MY opinion.

EIL132, sorry to hear about your friend/mate, was there not any come back from the insurance companies uninsured drivers scheme?

Rich

david

Fair enough Lloyd but were talking about people who are not breaking any laws and this shitty government still wants to shaft us silly

Snowy_Astra

BOOM! there it is

Good old 'innocent until proven guilty'

At least something still stands in this mess of a country.

B19BAL, I understand what you mean. You hand in your cover note, which states you are allowed to drive other vehicles. But what they can't proove at the station is that the car you were driving is not insured by someone else. That's why you can get away with it.

Just because the idiot behind the desk has no way of checking, doesn't mean you are not breaking the law.

One such incident i can recall was on the TV on a cop program. The bloke told the copper he is fully insured on his car, and is covered on other cars.....but the car he was caught in was not insured by a third party, so it was towed away, he got 6 points and a £500 fine.


Oh and one more thing B19BAl mentioned about parking a taxed, but uninsured car on the road.

Why is that wrong? A stationary car can't cause an accident if it is parked legally and correctly. I thought TAX was paid to keep a car on the road, not insurance

Lloyd

i dont dispute that david my post was regarding removing a car from private property,as per title. i saw it done, but how legal it was is a different matter

M Brian

well the dvla aint going to take the car off the drive of some tosser who's out there driving it are they! lol

or they planning on night raids for it? fk that the money they are going to spend sending out of hours people on clamp raids etc is a load of bollox.
better spent putting in a robust system that stopped it anyway.

I don't see why you can't have a insurance disc that third parties a particular car the the owner is responsible for getting. anyone without the disc on display on the road gets booked for it?
or your tax actually includes some third party insurance as ireland does.

david

Totally agree with what the cops done in that instance mate

We all seem to get tarred with the same brush though

RichardC

what a sensible idea, which just about kills off any hope of it ever happening

Ginge !

a uninsured car can still be stolen and still run over a small child or can roll back/catch fire and still damage other peoples property


and the insured to drive other cars policy IS exactly as i explained it,,,,,,,, whos insurance would yhou claim from when you had a crash !!!!!



think about it, reason companys try the line of " other car needs insurance" is for when you leave it aswell as to stop people buying a 1.0 nova and driving there nans 500bhp cossie "ocasionally"


trust me ive looked into this !!!!!!!

Snowy_Astra

You would claim from your insurers. They give you the freedom to drive other vehicles, if you crash and its your fault, your insurers pay for the third party, but not the car you are driving.

Ginge !

i know that, my point was where does your mates insurance come into play

EIL132

Afraid not, the car you are driving has to be insured by someone

Ginge !

james not all insurance comapnies require it,,,,,, i know for a fact and have had it confirmed by my insurance company and that esxample was given to me as i quizzed it

Snowy_Astra

Your mates insurance on his car you are driving does nothing. But it has to be insured before you can drive it third party with your insurance.

Are you getting at 'what's the point of having a car insured already, if your insurance covers you anyway?'

?

EIL132

#

They are wrong, the any other car rule depends on the other persons insurance as that is where the claim comes from

Snowy_Astra

But its not to do with the insurance companies though. Its the law that states it must be insured by a third party for your insurance to be valid on it. Else its not valid if its not insured by someone else before.

david

Ginge is right on this one as a mate of mine has the same terms on his policy yet I dont on mine.

States the he can drive any car wether insured or not as long as its not parked on the road.

EIL132

You mean it cant go on the public road then

Snowy_Astra

Ok, so providing that this is true......how is this new law going to work?

How will it affect people who are in the car trade? The police are going to be endlessly pulling cars over that show up on the system as uninsured......but when they pull matey over, they find he is actually entitled to drive the car?!

What a waste of money.......that's what they are up to. They want to justify spending the money because they arn't doing well in other areas of crime, so if it shows they are putting money into pulling uninsured drivers over, then they wont get in trouble.

david

No it can be driven on a public road by him but not parked

Ginge !

its not law at all, its what your insurance company requires but norwich union DO NOT REQUIRE IT AT ALL !!!!!

i know this as thats who i am insured with and i have driven loads of cars like this aswell as being tugged and been to court and had it confirmed



but i no longer have it as i work within the motor trade and that now excludes me from it

david

Leaves a MASSIVE loophole open which some will abuse im sure but thats the way it is, no ifs or buts.

XR-RS

sounds like a right rip off.

do i understand this right then, a car youve worked and paid for, on your own private propery..............isnt really yours to do whatever you wish with ? i can understand why it has to be sorned, but it shouldnt have to be insured.

Snowy_Astra

It still doesn't make sense. If you're in a car that is uninsured, it gets towed at the side of the road there and then. No producer, no if or buts, it gets taken and impounded.

the car has to be insured, to be on the system, for the police to make the decision there and then.

Maybe its just a surrey thing?!

Ginge !

soon as you leave the car its no longer on your policy and down to the owner of the vehicle if anything bad happens


its not such a bad idea rthey got but its gonna be like the sorn thing where they fine the honest people and aint gonna stop someone driving woith no insurance as all they gotta do is register it under another name ,,,,,,, infact ive done that on my runabout due to the risk if speeding tickets/bus lane and parking fines that risk out weighs the risk of driving in london,,,,,,,,,, especially when ive just bought the car and waiting for the log book to come through

Ginge !

mate if you are insured then you are insured end of storey !!!!!!!



aslong as you are following the rules theres nothing to worry about


just like if you just came from a pre aranged mot and got a tug

Snowy_Astra

In court you could argue & quote a specific law (again, human rights) that you are entitled to 'enjoyment' so long as it does not affect others.

Its a very serious law, you are entitled to enjoyment, and hobbies, there is absolutely nothing that can stop you 'enjoying' something (read CAR) unless, like i said, it brings misery to others.

Chipperx2

david

If you really want to stretch it out then im insured to drive any vehicle under my company's policy as long as its a journey to do with work but who can prove/dissaprove that im not going to or from a survey/client/delivery etc. Not totally legal I know but still hard to prove I wasnt doing otherwise.

Theres ways round most things

Ginge !

same here, my firm are self insured and as such i can drive ANY VEHICLE UPTO 1 MILLION sterling,,,,,,,,, just dont think the director would cover me in that situation

Snowy_Astra

So if i get a petition online going about this (even though it wont make a differnece) will any of you sign it?

What winds me up is what has been said here today about it not working to catch people that arn't on the system anyway because they've always driven without insurance/licence/tax/mot etc

And another argument to sign would be that you lot who are allowed to drive cars which are not insured, but your personal insurance covers, will constatly be getting pulled over...or have automatic fines posted out to the owner (be it the seller of the car, or you) as soon as its caught on a camera.

I really can't see how they will make it so they know that the person in a car thats on the system as 'uninsured' is actually insured him/herself?!?

My god, they really havn't though about this have they

Snowy_Astra

Ok, i got ap etition up

http://www.petitiononline.com/PET1/petition.html

If anyone cares to sign, that'll be great

I'm all for getting uninsured drivers off the road, but this is not the way to go about it.

There are far simpler ways to sort this out, one idea bout the 'insurance disc' was a cracking idea

RichardC

whats next?

The TAX system is now self-policing, forget to tax or sorn your car, automatic fine, except if you have never taxed your car and arent on the system

The MOT system is now computerised, how long before this is selfpolicing with automatic fines, again, except if you have never MOT'd your car and arent on the system.

insurance.......?

can I say cash-cow?

M Brian

ginge,
Ive got an insurance policy document that says my company is insured for any car also! and it says under the control of which is apparently quite odd AS any car becomes under the control of once you sit in it! lol

ive stated my policy documents on here before...

NOwhere on any document of mine does it say it has to be insured by someone else. there is NO point to it.

you are the insured person - you are driving! nothing to do with the owners insurance policy.

Steve200+

Trade insurance...? I'm insured on anything under £250k in value, (with annoyingly and ironically, no Cosworths. Apparantly Ferraris are fine), I still have 4 or 5 cars taxed and dotted around the area (for sale). Apologies if anyone else has said this, I'm tired and haven't read the whole topic.

Snowy_Astra

So this will affect you? Or even worse, the people who you bought the cars off....if the plate is spotted before the changeover to you as a dealer, they will get fines, which means you'll have phonecalls from them, you'll have to explain, then do paperwork to get the fines taken back etc etc etc etc

Are you happy with this new system then?