Thrush

iTrader: (1)

It's started

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...cal&id=4001365

Before I get flamed for it, I'm sorry but I feel this is no a serious breach of my civil rights... Sure people (non-smokers) have the right NOT to breath in second hand smoke, and banning smoking indoors in places like resturantes, bars, etc, while it's an inconvinience to people like me, is probably a good idea, but to ban smoking in ALL places people mingle- ON THE STREET?!?!?! I find it ludicrous, and a breach of my rights! I HAVE the right to smoke, in a democratic society we all have the freedom of choice - some will choose to smoke, some will choose NOT to smoke, but I don't see why all the rules should be govered by non smokers and band smokers from smoking absolutely everywhere....

dexterc

Whoa there. Thats one place, it does not mean its going to happen the world over. I agree that it would be completely stupid, however most drug laws as they stand are.

Jim Galbally

yes but you don't have the RIGHT to do what you want do you? youre not allowed to take cocaine for example. thats the argument thats lways gonna have pro-smokers stumped. just because people WANT to do something, doesnt mean they SHOULD.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

As long as its banned in public places, I'm happy.

I long to be able to go out for a meal/drink/night out and not come back stinking of smoke.

That's one thing that REALLY bugs me.

Beccy has done really well to give up smoking herself back when we first met and I feel a little sorry for her when we go out as, although I cannot relate as have never smoked, it must be hard when you have given up and people all around you are doing it.

On the street however, it's no worse really than chewing gum in terms of it's antisocial effects.

dexterc

Plus youve got to take into account that drinking in the street is banned in a lot of places in this country now. I hate the thinking behind this, but it is what government is doing.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Surely the reasons for banning drinking in the street are different to the reasons for banning smoking in public?

Drinking in the street promotes all kinds of behaviour, from littering, to criminal damage etc.

Smoking doesn't really cause those kinds of problems.

dexterc

I was thinking in terms of a precedent for prohibiting legal drug use in public, rather than the reasoning behind it. Precedent was important in the introduction of the smoking ban.

I dont agree with the prohibition of either, and I would argue that, given that I work with drunks a lot, they are just as inclined to break the law or act badly whether they drink outside or in a licenced venue and then leave. They are still pissed.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Fair point, but if they have consumed their Alcohol solely outside, they are far more likely to leave their empty beer bottles on my car/in my garden etc.

dexterc

That is true. However, I dont think littering is the general reason behind the law, its an attempt to solve drunken anti-social behaviour in general, which I think is misguided and unnecessarily restricts peoples freedom.

I hold true to the unpopular notion that government should stay the fuck out unless its to prevent fundamental rights from being infringed.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Take a look at our country now - we have a no smoking policy coming into effect for resturantes, pubs, bars n clubs next year... It was onlya few years ago that the first smoking ban was brought into effect in public places elsewhere in the world. It will only take a few more years for smoking to be outlawed everywhere in every major city/country. Once the ball has started rolling, it gathers much moss

Untill tobacco is made illegal, that argument is flawed...

dexterc

I would doubt it for several reasons. Firstly, the reason that the bill got through parliament was based on the implications for public health, and there are hardly any for smoking outdoors. Secondly, big Tobacco still has lobbying power. Thirdly, it would be massively unpopular, and governments have to get reelected. Most smokers that I know, although they dont like the ban, they can see the reasoning for it, which I doubt would happen with an overall ban. Especially in these days of middle ground politics, I cant see both parties reaching a consensus on this, as even if they both agreed, opposition to such a ban would be a vote winner. I dont see any nonsmokers complaining about people smoking outside, so you wouldnt win many votes for that either.

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Agree with that. I hate smoking, with a passion. Never tried and never will.

Red16

Thrush should ban the lot of ya... dirty stinking smokers

i know what youre saying mind, and to be honest i'd like it banned all over cos it would suit me but its definitely unfair to ban it in large open areas like the street.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

What you have to remember tho, is it isn't just down to goverments in power. City Mayor's have the power to initiate these bans. THe ban on smoking indoors in NYC was initiated by the NYC mayor - the ban on street smoking in the lik I provided was initated by the mayor of that city (name excapes me) so it is still entirely possible....

dexterc

Thats a good point, but Im not sure that local government in this country has that sort of power. Was that Rudy Giuliani by the way? I hate the spud.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

What's annoying about it is the narrow-minded, holier than thou, moralising attitude many non smokers take to it tho! It's a bit like me banning drum n bass music from being played anywhere, cos I don't like it, nevermind if you do.....

Secondly, what really ticks me off are the "over reactors" to smoking. I have been smoking for over ten years, and I smoke a LOT - 10 packs in 8 days on average? But people say "I have to hold my breath when walking past people smoking on the street" and "it has an ill effect on my health"....

The first is bollox, sorry, but it is. The second... Well, it is based in fact yes - smoking does have a negative effect on health. But if I have been smoking constantly for 10years and so far have had no negative effects to my health (that I know off), how can taking in half a lungfull of smoke a day on the street (when it's un-pure, ie broken down, stripped of 90% of it's tar and nicotine (which has already been absorbed by the smokers lungs) and mixed with 99% oxygen, so in effect 1 lung full of second hand smoke only contains 1% actual smoke) be detrimental to your health?

The damaging part of smoking is the pure smoke, taken from the burning tobacco into the lungs. Or from the wisps of smoke from the lit end of the cigarette. The after effect of smoking, the exhaled "smoke" is stipped of virtaully all tar, nicotine and carbon monoxide, and as I said only contains on at most (on average) 10% of the original damaging qualities. Mix that with normal atmosphere oxygen (laymans terms = AIR) then this is diluted down to usually 1 or 2%....

So most of the problem today is with non-smokers who are over reacting...

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

I'm not saying smoking does not kill - of course it does. I know people who have died as a direct result of smoking - we all do I am sure...

But the fact of the matter remains, it is highly unlikely that non smokers will die as a result of passive smoking due to people smoking in the open air on the street.

The majority of problems from second hand smoke are from enclosed and confined area's, such as in the home, pubs, bars and clubs, etc. This is where the smoke, both exhaled and in "raw" form, burning from the end of the cigarette, is trapped with nowhere to go. It lingers and is inhaled by the non smoker, and is known as passive smoking.

Out on the street and in the atmosphere, both the raw and exhaled smoke is disapated virtually immediately. Smoke rises, and is quickly whipped away by any breezes and is above buildings and human intake zones very very quickly.

People DO die from passive smoking yes, but not from people smoking on the street. They die from passive smoking in confined area's.

Look at it like this. You get in your car, stick a hose in the exhaust and feed it into the car and run the engine. The fumes will kill you very quickly.

But you walk on the street every single day, and every single day there are hundreds and thousands of cars/vehicles pumping out the SAME fumes into the atmosphere. But you are still alive aren't you?

See my point?

d4zsr

You're MORE at risk from breathing in the gasoues fumes from vehicles whilst on the street than you are from passing the odd smoker!

EDIT: Thrush has already covered that - i should read the whole thread in future doh!

gurnE

Exactly.

I go to the Bristol RSOC meet every month, and pretty much every winter month I end up with a sore throat because of the smoky atmosphere.
Sat here with one now
Now I've decided I won't be going again until summer arrives

I wouldn't expect smoking to be banned in the open air but the sooner it's banned from pub/clubs etc the better

Smelly fookin' c**ts

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

GurnE - again that is you opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is a very one sided argument! None of the non-smokers seem to consider how the smokers feel about this - if anything the tables are turned and we (the smokers) are now the segregated ones! We don't like the fact that now WE can't go to xx place or do xx thing because of the ban on smoking in that place. Why should WE be forced to not be involved in something becuase a non smoker says we can't?

And the typical reply is usually "well, give up smoking then...." - which I answer with the almost as stupid "why don't you START smoking instead?" You wuold think that to start smoking in order to go to a pub or club is ludicrous - I happen to think that in order to go to a pub or club I have to QUIT smoking is just a ludicrous!

gurnE

I'm sat here with a sore throat that I didn't ask for because someone else choose to smoke. Not me.

I'm no longer going to attend my local RSOC meet during the winter because of it.

Smokers are selfish c**ts who inflict their dirty fucking habit on the rest of the world.

You don't have to quit smoking. Just fuck off and not do it around the rest of us who have the intelligence not to smoke and the ability to get through our days without a drug!

I don't give a shit how the smokers 'feel' about the smoking ban.
My habits don't cause discomfort and suffering to others.

Just noticed that's a bit of a rant No offence intended but my throat is fookin sore

TrevCannon

Well bloody said!

Not to keen on the hose & exhaust... as my dad did it

But well said! i dont really care about all this because nothing will ever stop me smoking

dexterc

Guys, you still havent produced anything other than conjecture to say that street smoking ban is likely in this country. No comments in Hansard or from anti-smoking groups even. You cant smoke in bars for the same reason that I cant go and shoot in the street, because its dangerous, and infringes on the rights of, people around you. (Whether I agree with that is neither here nor there) Show me something to say that this is going to happen.

TiB

iTrader: (1)

Still f*cking stinks though...

you dont like not having a choice on wether you smell someones fart... do you? and that wont harm you physicly

Smoke to your hearts content for me.. but just do it in private

TiB

iTrader: (1)

The guy next door but 1 to me used to nip outside his front door for a fag and if it was during summer and our window is open i could smell it in our house for ages afterwards, why should i have to put up with that??

TrevCannon

Some ppl really do over act... fcuk this & ucnt that! w/e...

Look i got an idea...

Why dont med ppl run tests on ppl to see if or they do smoke yeah? then lock "us smoking cos we want too" cnuts up!

Might aswell cos we beening treated like it

I dont like non-smokers aswell cos ur all a bunch of pussy azz cnuts!

gurnE

Set fire to his house. see how long it takes him to get rid of the smell of smoke

gurnE

Now this is the sort of person I expect to smoke.

It always astounds me when I meet someone of reasonable intelligence who smokes

dexterc

I know a shitload of students who smoke. Depends if you describe students as being of 'reasonable intelligence' though

TiB

iTrader: (1)

What a shit hot idea lol

and there was me thinking that smokers are selfish

Lee Reynolds

Kinda see where ya coming from thrush, but tbh i dont care as i hate smoking. Smokers are ignorant and selfish inflicting their habit upon others, and roll on summer 2007 when its banned. IF it somes to where it is banned totally in public then so be it, perhaps it will help people quit the dirty habit??

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Lets turn the tables here then;

I'm sat here excluded from going out because someone else says I can't, not me

I'm no longer going to be able to attend my local RSOC meet during the winter because of it

Non-smokers are selfish c**ts who inflict their idealistic narrow-mindedness on the rest of the world.

You don't have to start smoking. Just fuck off elsewhere where there aren't any smokers. How about I take away your coffee aswell so you really don't have to have any drugs to get through the day!

I don't give a shit how the non-smokers 'feel' about the smoking in public.
Not my fault they choose not to smoke.

Hmmm.....

dexterc

Thrush, you choose to smoke. You are not being discriminated against. No one is saying that a smoker cannot go to a pub. They are saying that you cannot smoke inside, because it affects the health of others inside.

gurnE

Thrush, all of your arguements make no sense

My cup of coffee (the whole one cup of decaff a day ) doesn't impact on anyone else.

People should be free to do anything they want provided that does not impact on other people.

Smoke all you like at home but you do not have the right to inflict your filthy habit on others.

Wishing to breathe clean air isn't selfish

TiB

iTrader: (1)

Just think how many empty beds there would be in the hospitals if there wasnt any "smoking related health problem" people there??

maybe smokers should pay more NI contributions???

So on that thought... maybe its the non smokers that are discriminated against as we pay the same as the smokers??

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

NUTTIN RILLA

I really dont understand smokers reasons for doing it, lets face it, its really bad for your health, it makes your breath, hair, fingers, and clothes all stink, and now is going to be a pain in the arse bacause you cant have a pint and a fag without going outside, why not just stop? is it that good? a mean its not as if its cocain and you get a great buzz out it, personaly i think the people that cant stop and say " i need it " are just weak, all i my opinion of course, i dont like smokers because i drive a van with another two guys to work everyday and they smoke like a chimney on fire, at least 35 fags a day, and anyone that says it doesnt stink your fingers , breath, hair, and clothes is a liar ( harsh maybe ) im paired with one of they guys and we lift, and fit our equiptment together and he stinks, its not a nice thing to say but he does, hes another ignorant snmoker tho and says "f*ck you al smoke if i want" ROLL ON THE 26 OF MARCH WHEN IM IN THE PUB AND HE HAS TO GO OUT EVERY TEN MIN FOR A SMOKE

DazC

iTrader: (1)

I am a very anti smoking person. I can't wait for the ban to come in.

~nomad~

iTrader: (4)

smokers arguements are well flawed. it does damage others health, it stinks and it ruins the atmosphere for those who don't do it. My mum has just banned smoking in her pub (before she had to) and it so much nicer (and busier) than before. Fact is the majority of people now dont want it in public places. As for outside, tbh I would like it banned there too, but not particully worried. When you walk past it you get a whif and its minging, not the end of the world thou. But in inside public places its fair enough.

What angers me is that the goverment effectivly endorses smoking by taxing it on one hand, then restricts it heavily on the other.