P8 & Dizzyless
16-02-2006, 05:04 PM
#41
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The diode route may work for some but not others. 
Ford rev counters are notoriously difficult to drive properly from any
kind of simulated source as I have found out.
The ignition waveform is very complex when you look on an osciloscope
and elements that the Ford rev counter needs will be marginal or missing
from such a conversion.
One example is voltage variation in the loom as items in the car are
turned on or off. This can cause miss reads of the rev counter or random
eratic begaviour depending on many conditions
OR
For a specific car will work perfectly. !
Other issues include, on some systems the coil dwell times will overlap at
higher RPM (I.E both coils energised together just before spark occurs)
This will also cause further problems for the diode method.
As for the SECS coilpack board rev counter issue I do have a fix and
have equiped a mates sapphire with the modification which he has been
testing for me this week.
This car had a major issue with the rev counter but the new mod seems
to have sorted it. I have tried it on my car too and that is ok.
If all goes well tomorrow then I will release the modification to Stu.
Tried fixing this issue 3 times now and want to make sure this solution is
the final one.
Ford rev counters are notoriously difficult to drive properly from any
kind of simulated source as I have found out.
The ignition waveform is very complex when you look on an osciloscope
and elements that the Ford rev counter needs will be marginal or missing
from such a conversion.
One example is voltage variation in the loom as items in the car are
turned on or off. This can cause miss reads of the rev counter or random
eratic begaviour depending on many conditions
OR
For a specific car will work perfectly. !
Other issues include, on some systems the coil dwell times will overlap at
higher RPM (I.E both coils energised together just before spark occurs)
This will also cause further problems for the diode method.
As for the SECS coilpack board rev counter issue I do have a fix and
have equiped a mates sapphire with the modification which he has been
testing for me this week.
This car had a major issue with the rev counter but the new mod seems
to have sorted it. I have tried it on my car too and that is ok.
If all goes well tomorrow then I will release the modification to Stu.
Tried fixing this issue 3 times now and want to make sure this solution is
the final one.
16-02-2006, 05:09 PM
#42
Originally Posted by SECS
The diode route may work for some but not others.
Ford rev counters are notoriously difficult to drive properly from any
kind of simulated source as I have found out.
The ignition waveform is very complex when you look on an osciloscope
and elements that the Ford rev counter needs will be marginal or missing
from such a conversion.
One example is voltage variation in the loom as items in the car are
turned on or off. This can cause miss reads of the rev counter or random
eratic begaviour depending on many conditions
OR
For a specific car will work perfectly. !
Other issues include, on some systems the coil dwell times will overlap at
higher RPM (I.E both coils energised together just before spark occurs)
This will also cause further problems for the diode method.
As for the SECS coilpack board rev counter issue I do have a fix and
have equiped a mates sapphire with the modification which he has been
testing for me this week.
This car had a major issue with the rev counter but the new mod seems
to have sorted it. I have tried it on my car too and that is ok.
If all goes well tomorrow then I will release the modification to Stu.
Tried fixing this issue 3 times now and want to make sure this solution is
the final one.
Ford rev counters are notoriously difficult to drive properly from any
kind of simulated source as I have found out.
The ignition waveform is very complex when you look on an osciloscope
and elements that the Ford rev counter needs will be marginal or missing
from such a conversion.
One example is voltage variation in the loom as items in the car are
turned on or off. This can cause miss reads of the rev counter or random
eratic begaviour depending on many conditions
OR
For a specific car will work perfectly. !
Other issues include, on some systems the coil dwell times will overlap at
higher RPM (I.E both coils energised together just before spark occurs)
This will also cause further problems for the diode method.
As for the SECS coilpack board rev counter issue I do have a fix and
have equiped a mates sapphire with the modification which he has been
testing for me this week.
This car had a major issue with the rev counter but the new mod seems
to have sorted it. I have tried it on my car too and that is ok.
If all goes well tomorrow then I will release the modification to Stu.
Tried fixing this issue 3 times now and want to make sure this solution is
the final one.
simon your fix for my car is spot on works a treat
16-02-2006, 05:11 PM
#43
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SECS
i know exactly what u mean about the point of things being switched on/off in teh car, with my headlights on, the rev couter drops, as is does with the indicators, or touching the windows switches, can be as much as half reaading if the alterator is laoded up....
for a sneak preview of teh final fix... is is a mod to the board, or the eatra earthing route you mentioned a few months back...?
i know exactly what u mean about the point of things being switched on/off in teh car, with my headlights on, the rev couter drops, as is does with the indicators, or touching the windows switches, can be as much as half reaading if the alterator is laoded up....
for a sneak preview of teh final fix... is is a mod to the board, or the eatra earthing route you mentioned a few months back...?
16-02-2006, 05:17 PM
#44
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Dave Henshall,
The mod involves changing 2 components on the board.
Anyone who has such problems with these boards may upgrade FOC
through myself or Stu ONCE I have confirmed its ok.
The mod involves changing 2 components on the board.
Anyone who has such problems with these boards may upgrade FOC
through myself or Stu ONCE I have confirmed its ok.
16-02-2006, 05:28 PM
#46
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Ryan,
sorry mate, had a few major things happening in my life since then and
only really been on here today as I am at home ill in bed and
selling my car
Just downing my tea and will read in a while
sorry mate, had a few major things happening in my life since then and
only really been on here today as I am at home ill in bed and
selling my car
Just downing my tea and will read in a while
16-02-2006, 07:35 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by SECS
Dave Henshall,
The mod involves changing 2 components on the board.
Anyone who has such problems with these boards may upgrade FOC
through myself or Stu ONCE I have confirmed its ok.
The mod involves changing 2 components on the board.
Anyone who has such problems with these boards may upgrade FOC
through myself or Stu ONCE I have confirmed its ok.
16-02-2006, 09:12 PM
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OK, next stage of the P8 and Dizzyless story.
Try adding an Apexi AVCR into the equation as well that needs an RPM feed!!!!
I tried the obvious and tapping into the new circuit that drives the VDO tacho and no luck. They interfere with each other.
Created another single circuit from the coil pack trigger on one side and direct this to the AVCR and it works fine. Reads idebtical to the engine monitor.
The tacho still works fine off the original modded setup, so I now have all 3 (dont need them I know) RPM counts that all read the same!!!
Again only garage tested up to 3K, and the proof will be in the road test.
Try adding an Apexi AVCR into the equation as well that needs an RPM feed!!!!
I tried the obvious and tapping into the new circuit that drives the VDO tacho and no luck. They interfere with each other.
Created another single circuit from the coil pack trigger on one side and direct this to the AVCR and it works fine. Reads idebtical to the engine monitor.
The tacho still works fine off the original modded setup, so I now have all 3 (dont need them I know) RPM counts that all read the same!!!
Again only garage tested up to 3K, and the proof will be in the road test.
16-02-2006, 09:18 PM
#49
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polly_x,
I suspect your tacho is NOT the original Ford item and so less fussy about signal quality.
As for your garage testing, most FORD tacho problems occur when on boost as the
injectors consume more current and the small voltage drops in the wiring
affect voltage trigger levels.
Hope it works for you
I suspect your tacho is NOT the original Ford item and so less fussy about signal quality.
As for your garage testing, most FORD tacho problems occur when on boost as the
injectors consume more current and the small voltage drops in the wiring
affect voltage trigger levels.
Hope it works for you
16-02-2006, 11:06 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by SECS
polly_x,
I suspect your tacho is NOT the original Ford item and so less fussy about signal quality.
As for your garage testing, most FORD tacho problems occur when on boost as the
injectors consume more current and the small voltage drops in the wiring
affect voltage trigger levels.
Hope it works for you
I suspect your tacho is NOT the original Ford item and so less fussy about signal quality.
As for your garage testing, most FORD tacho problems occur when on boost as the
injectors consume more current and the small voltage drops in the wiring
affect voltage trigger levels.
Hope it works for you
Will post up the road test result. Fingers crossed!
18-02-2006, 06:18 PM
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tried the 2 diode/1 zener diode fix on mine (mk2) . now it works @ tickover and up to 1800rpm but above that reads zero so not a lot of use
18-02-2006, 06:42 PM
#53
For an Escort Cosworth why not just fit a rev counter from a mk5 escort with coilpack. Only a fix for this car but the rev counter could be made to fit most early Ford clock setup?
On the Escort RST this is an easy fix, but for cars with after market counters etc.. it must be anoying
On the Escort RST this is an easy fix, but for cars with after market counters etc.. it must be anoying
18-02-2006, 07:27 PM
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Just to update you.
Fully tested mine today using the fix and works fine right through the Rev range.
Got identical readings on the Monitor, the Tach and the AVCR boost controller so well pleased.
Fully tested mine today using the fix and works fine right through the Rev range.
Got identical readings on the Monitor, the Tach and the AVCR boost controller so well pleased.
18-02-2006, 08:06 PM
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RE: the mk 5 rev counter, surely its the same mechanics, and there is some circuitry the that could be either copied and adapted and/or incorporated into the driver board...? only dicretete components of theback of the clock , not u prosessor technology ..?
18-02-2006, 09:06 PM
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Once I get hold of Ryan, I'll find out where my wires go!! I have a tacho output from the S8 which is at present not working the rev counter as it is at the mo!! But i'll deffo try it straight from pin 1 to the mk5 rev counter.
See I knew I was keeping all this sh*t in the shed for something!!
See I knew I was keeping all this sh*t in the shed for something!!
21-02-2006, 10:19 PM
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somtehing which has ben suggested for the ECos is using the ST Rev counter, though I'm unconvinced ... Ireckon it will be the EEC IV which will give a correct RPM signal to the clocks... not different clocks to work with coil packs..>???? Anyone know for defo??
22-02-2006, 12:04 AM
#64
Originally Posted by the original
tried the 2 diode/1 zener diode fix on mine (mk2) . now it works @ tickover and up to 1800rpm but above that reads zero so not a lot of use
22-02-2006, 07:15 AM
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[quote="jon@work"]
Jon for some bizarre reason i thought i would first try a link 
straight to ground, when i put it to ground there was a big spark and it killed the revcounter completely 
1 step forward 2 steps back
Originally Posted by the original
Stu - did you look at the link I attached - one of the guys on there had the same problem - he put a 5k resistor between the zener output and earth and his rev counter then worked fine (page 1 - Jed - launch link - then download piccy)
straight to ground, when i put it to ground there was a big spark and it killed the revcounter completely 1 step forward 2 steps back
22-02-2006, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Damo V
The MK5 rev counter isnt electroluminescent... I dont think it will be able to be illuminated using the ECos circuitry
but the phicical size and mechanics of the back of the rev couter are the same (i think) so use the movement frmo the coil pack equiped mk 5 escort and use the face etc from the escos.... but without having the 2 side by side to see if this is possible i cant tell.. KJC - can u post some pics of the normal rev couter pls...
23-02-2006, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Henshall
Originally Posted by Damo V
The MK5 rev counter isnt electroluminescent... I dont think it will be able to be illuminated using the ECos circuitry
but the phicical size and mechanics of the back of the rev couter are the same (i think) so use the movement frmo the coil pack equiped mk 5 escort and use the face etc from the escos.... but without having the 2 side by side to see if this is possible i cant tell.. KJC - can u post some pics of the normal rev couter pls...
24-02-2006, 10:31 AM
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Jano,
just farting about with this as we speak!!!
just tried some 1.6 efi clocks and the rev counter hardly moves!!
also tried the clocks out of my 1.8 zetec.....
which reads half the revs!!!!
same as my cossie ones!!
have used one of the coilpack trigger wires for the feed???
just farting about with this as we speak!!!
just tried some 1.6 efi clocks and the rev counter hardly moves!!
also tried the clocks out of my 1.8 zetec.....
which reads half the revs!!!!
same as my cossie ones!!
have used one of the coilpack trigger wires for the feed???
25-02-2006, 10:05 AM
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Up for clever buggers!!
Myself and Ryan tried the diode method yesterday, and using the Esc cos clocks and got no joy!! We got half reading with one diode connected but as soon as both were connected the signal fooked off and the rev needle dropped!!
Now I also tried two sets of mk5 clocks earlier in the day....
One was a set from my old 1.6 efi turbo, and one was from my 1.8 zetec runabout!!
The 1.6 one hardly moved at all...
The zetec ones ran half!!!!
????????????????????????????????????
Myself and Ryan tried the diode method yesterday, and using the Esc cos clocks and got no joy!! We got half reading with one diode connected but as soon as both were connected the signal fooked off and the rev needle dropped!!
Now I also tried two sets of mk5 clocks earlier in the day....
One was a set from my old 1.6 efi turbo, and one was from my 1.8 zetec runabout!!
The 1.6 one hardly moved at all...
The zetec ones ran half!!!!
????????????????????????????????????
26-02-2006, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Damo V
boing.... So how does Jano suggest to do it then if he has already done it succesfully???
Unless webber ecu V's SECS makes a difference??
Unless webber ecu V's SECS makes a difference??
Did a whole day on track yesterday and mine is still working fine.
I used a 1.3W 15V Zener from maplins part number QF57M
27-02-2006, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by polly_x
Originally Posted by Damo V
boing.... So how does Jano suggest to do it then if he has already done it succesfully???
Unless webber ecu V's SECS makes a difference??
Unless webber ecu V's SECS makes a difference??
Did a whole day on track yesterday and mine is still working fine.
I used a 1.3W 15V Zener from maplins part number QF57M
27-02-2006, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Damo V
Originally Posted by polly_x
Originally Posted by Damo V
boing.... So how does Jano suggest to do it then if he has already done it succesfully???
Unless webber ecu V's SECS makes a difference??
Unless webber ecu V's SECS makes a difference??
Did a whole day on track yesterday and mine is still working fine.
I used a 1.3W 15V Zener from maplins part number QF57M
Jano has said just swap the gubbins over with a mk5 rev counter.....
BUT - I have already tried with some 1.6 cvh efi clocks AND a 1.8 zetec set!!
So it seems that it's the rs2000 or xr3i ones to try next (these are the same as each other - they just differ in years!!!!)
I should have a set of xr3i ones tomorrow or the next day!! hopefully!!
27-02-2006, 03:00 PM
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did i read somewhere that is has to be a eeciv escos rev counter...? but even so - that is still a twin coilpack system as per any other mk 5 escort coilpack cars like the efi cvh and zetec etc.... whats different - what are we missing here...??