GARETH T

ya was me,, sadly i didnt finish it as i kept on changing my mind on how to build it,, if i find time this year i will have another bash at it as i know how i would build it for sure this time

BMEP

That is true for a standard engine, however anyone that goes to the trouble to fit an aftermarket ecu or L8 for that matter doesn’t have a standard engine anymore and the ecu (regardless of type) will have to be re-tuned to suit the new spec engine

GARETH T

i would say the L8 would need to be TWEEKED, where aftermarket would have too be 100% re-wrote

Anonymous

L8 all the way for me on 1000cc injectors

James-W

Glad to hear mate was thinking about making one myself even though I wouldnt have a clue how to make one or a car to put it on.
Hopefully this year I will have a car to put one on but still wont have a clue to make one.
Are you experienced in making things out of carbon?
How do you plan to make it may I ask or is it secret.
Fully understand if you dont want to share Ill just read one of these books with it all in.


Proper dummy post that wasnt it.

GARETH T

very little PMSL but ive read a book, and im one of those people who love diving in

if i get time,, ill write you post post on how to do it,, i havent got the time today so remind me,,, i will forget (my short term memory is bad )

James-W

Thanks mate I will do.

Will make a good read.

BMEP

I totally agree The time taken to tune an aftermarket ecu will be governed mainly by the talent of the tuner and there knowledge with the system they use.

Based on Karl’s comment, when it comes to steady state “drivability”, the engines performance will be governed by the Ignition advance, Injection time (in effect the A/F mixture) and if the ecu has sequential Injection, the start/finish of the injection time. So “if” two different types of ecu’s had identical Ign, Inj, and Sequential timing there should be no difference.

It goes without saying that there are more than ample settings within the Autronic/Motec ecu’s to cover transition throttle fuel delivery, cold start etc.

Does anyone know if the L8 has sequential injection? Can it tune each Cyl as a separate engine? Does anyone know the injection time resolution on the L8? Don’t get me wrong, I genuinely don’t know, NOT having a dig at the L8.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

yes it is and yes u can

cheers jay

GARETH T

yes
no

not too sure

the base maps are the easy bit too tune,, its all the multiplyers that go with them which are a pain, i dont drive my car without a laptop in there, as im always tweeking

heres the fule mutliplyers for a t6 2000

BMEP

Thanks for that It is very different to the Autronic setup. There is no need to work out multipliers as such. There is simply a user defined rpm and load table and the figure you use is what the engine will see at that particular rpm/load NOT taking into account the separate correction maps based on air/water temps etc.

Sorry to be a pain, but why are you always tweaking ? Once set, the ecu should be consistent in its fuel/Ignition delivery.

Rick

My 2p's worth - it's all in the mapping.

I currently run a t34 on kejet which holds 24psi of boost, so it's a fair amount of power. In conjunction with the MF2, the fuelling IMO could not be better. On idle, 0.84% CO. Crusing at 30mph, AFR 14.6. At 70mph, 14.7. At 90mph, 15:1. After this speed, on light throttle loads, it starts to richen very slightly. On boost, by 4psi its 12.8:1, by 15psi it's at 12:1, dropping to 11.2 on full boost. I've done countless data logs of coming on and off the throttle, 4th gear pulls from 1000rpm to limiter, fast gear changes etc to see what happened in these conditions.

The results are much better than i expected, i drive the car every day, and if i dont boot it about, it's really good on petrol - my record is 44mpg on light mway driving!

The big limitation i have is the ignition control provided by the ESCII module. Any more boost than 24psi, and the ignition retard off boost makes the car feel lazy at low rpm, and harms economy, which im not willing to sacrifice.

So, ive decided to use MS to control my ignition. Ive studied the software, the hardware, the assembly code and it's perfect for what i need. The best thing is, it will be partly funded by my University as part of my Masters in elecronic engineering

The key thing is, that to get KE to work so well has taken MONTHS and lots of miles in different conditions to get right. I have never seen a KE equipped car drive as well as mine - all the big power cars have horrendoues fuel economy, but then the people setting them up make them safe, and can't spend weeks on them. The same thing with MS or any ECU, given time, u can reach pefection

GARETH T

cold start mostly

its the same with most ecu's.. there is base maps (main tables) what you call correction maps im calling multiplyers,,, same thing

BMEP

Fair enough, it really sounds like six of one and half a dozen of the other


In reality there is no doubt that the tune is heavily based on the knowledge of the person doing the tuning

GARETH T

im 100% proof of that

BMEP

LOL

stevieturbo

But think why that is the case.....

Its not because the ecu is better or worse. Its because it was NEVER designed for that to happen. It was designed for mass production, to be fitted to a car, and never touched again.
So why would anyone ever expect it to be an easy thing to remap ???

Megasquirt, Motec, Autronic, whatever are all designed from the outset to allow the user to make live adjustments. It would be foolish to build such an ecu any other way.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

I know why it is the case, i didnt spend £30K on my hardware for a giggle... I think you missed my point.. you have just repeated exactly what i said, but differently...

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

stu s has simon changed the software to add the coil packs


cheers jay

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Sorry Jay?

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Good topic.

Big up Weber

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

just was thinking stu but normally thats when stuff goes tits up

did you and si upgrade the software so the webber can run the hardware you have fitted
such as th e change from dizzy to packs


cheers jay

GARETH T

theres no software change mate, simons add on board for coil packs is inteligent

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

As Gareth Said.
Shame i dont have any to sell still eh?

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

pmsl

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

karl theres enough so called car tuners out there that couldnt tune a tv let alone car tho int there ?

GARETH T

jaycos

how do you tune a tv mate?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Yes, i personally deal with a few tuners who wouldnt have a clue how to tune a modern engine without others help as they dont understand the fundamentals. I even know some who can ONLY tune old Fords as they dont understand modern practises!!

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

they got tvs in wales now pmsl

stu i had a company local tell me they could get 430 bhp on 4x803s and a t34 the shocking part is they have been in the game for about 10 years . they also had the cheek to tell mee that cossies are utter shit sell it and buy a scooby or a supra

GARETH T

sadly the tuning world is let down by some poeple who simply havent a clue what they are doing,, and hand out VERY dangerious advice

but then there is other tuners who do make up for it

AlexF

how true

_DAN_

Interseting stuff

flax

gotta say what a great topic.

as for the guy on about only gypo`s wantin ms system lose the ego and grow up.

i must admit the thought of fitting this system to a cossie is beyond me as although there are a load of prats that will bodge your cossie there are also some damn fine tuners about. ie pj`s, motor sport developments, collins, nms etc.

for me i got a s1 and was gonna put weber stuff on it but decided against it purely because of mapping costs to suit my engine. the mega squirt system is ideal for me as im a technician anyway so impretty clued up and more to the point i`ve built my car from scratch so i want to finish it myself. not to mention the saving in money will pay for the re trim lol.

i`ve been told 250 for a run in map to get started on new engine etc, then 400 -500 quid for the sessions, when i can get all i need for 350 and adjust the parameter my self as ans when like.

i`d like to here what some of the tuners honestly think about this system as opposed to the fuck me thats cheap i dont want people to start buying that.

i here what stu is saying about why the price of mapping is so high because of the process and time plus the cost of the equiptment. but surely this system can only be a drastic improvement over mfi management?

reality

An interesting thread. The Marelli ECU's are very good indeed. They do an amazing amount of control from very little resource inside the box (although the resources do increase as you go from 1, 6 and to 8)..

However, in some ways, Megasquirt does more than some (expensive) aftermarket ECU's. It is crude though. I mean, really crude. The transient fuelling is pretty naff. It works, but yeah, it's crap. Oh and it doesn't have transient spark control. Not really an issue on most engines, but I certainly wouldn't want to be building a high power engine without this kind of control. But in all fairness, some OE ECU's suffer in this department to; just look at a fiesta turbo ecu Don't be sucked in by all the 'features' that various people have added to MS.. yes, nitrous control, boost control, idle control, anti-lag, duel maps, blah blah.. most of these have just been thrown in and just about work, crudely..

You will never get a MS equipped car to drive as nicely as a weber, eec or esc2 car.. it's just not evolved enough.. they've converted a crude fuel computer into something that can also do spark now and thrown a bunch of modifiers at it.. MS is about 15 years behind most OE ECU's.. but it will run your engine relatively well..

I'd recommend something like MS to either those on as super tight budget.. or perhaps for drag racing, where you only really care about WOT performance (which all ECU's should be capable of doing well).. This is a little harsh, but MS is crude, what more can I say..

With regards to tuning competence.. It is practically impossible to map a turbocharged car on your own in the car.. you're just not going to get away with datalogging, analysis, "offline" changes, and re-test.. not unless you're running so rich that you've got no chance of destroying it (well, other than bore wash).. With something like a cossie, I strongly suggest that only capable tuners do any kind of mapping like this.. it's really not a car you want to try to map as your first outing! Stick MS on some old zetec piece of crap and learn how it all works.. well, learn what you can..

flax

its gotta be better than an mfi set up of a rst though surely.

DaveAVT

Id like somebody to try my system on a YB

www.adaptronic.co.uk

As well as closed loop self fuel learning even into WOT, for the transient response issues, it has MAP and TPS enrichment systems, and even ansycronominous throttle enrichment where extra fuel can be added at any point between the normal injector pulses. You can't get any more flexible than that..

Id be willing to supply a full ecu and loom free of charge to somebody in the YB industry that can do the job properly.

reality

You'd be shocked just how good KE Jetronic is when you try and map your own car

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Top offer Dave

Garage19

Dave,

Is this ECU your product or are you just a re- seller?

Just down loaded the software and it looks pretty good at first glance.

I would like to have the rpm points on the map user definable rather than the set 500rpm increments but i guess you have done this to make so it was easier for the self learning feature to get the maths right? Nice big table though.

DaveAVT

I am the european distributor. It is an Australian product..

Yes, the point are not that wide at 500rpm, but the firmware mainly relies on the self learning facility, where internally, it maps all points down to a much higher resolution.

Self learning wise, it will talk directly via a serial cable link to LM1's, Techedge units, Zeitronics and traditional UEGO sensors. The good thing about the serial link, is you plug the two units together and the start talking to each other automatically. I think this is the only ecu on the market that shares protocols with various wideband manufacturers.

The self learning facility is very fast. A standard n/a vechicle was tuned on a NARRROW band sensor for idle and driving with mapping up to 4500rpm in little over 12 minutes, simply by driving on the road. It would be even faster on a wideband unit. This test was just an example of what could be done, and not a proper way of tuning a vehicle, but a good indication of how useful the tool can be.