reality

DaveAVT
How much does this ECU cost? I didn't see anything in the software for transient control.. The software initially looks better than MegaTune..

DaveAVT

Tell me what you mean by transient control.

GARETH T

throttle changes fueling

DaveAVT

Thats what I thought...

Its in the software. You can run map or TPS, or both, or fall back modes to one or the other if one is below or above a certain parameter (such as highly cammed TB'd engines with hardly any vacuum), and then you have the TPS table to setup enrichment across the rev/load bands..

DaveAVT

Here you go, try and get your head round this (excerpt from Manual)

'There are two possible sources of acceleration enrichment. One is MAP, the other is TPS. The time-derivative of each of these variables (how quickly each is increasing) are multiplied by the appropriate numbers in the settings (again, in the Corrections tabsheet). This is then fed into a peak-hold algorithm, which allows the enrichment to occur once the throttle has reached its final position. This enrichment also decays
linearly over the prescribed time period, and can be seen by the trim value changing as the throttle is quickly applied.'

Asynchronous Accelerator Pump Enrichment

'This is an additional feature which is quite separate to the fuel calculation and trimcalculation. It allows an extra jet of fuel to be supplied when the throttle is first opened, similar to a power jet on a carburettor. This extra squirt of fuel is completely asynchronous with the rest of the injection sequence, and so can give quite effective transient performance on an engine, even without sequential injection.

The time-derivative of the TPS (how quickly the throttle is being opened) is measured. The current RPM value is measured, and then the asynchronous accelerator pump duration is interpolated from the table. This table has its own dialogue box, and is accessed from the Corrections tabsheet. It gives the accelerator pump duration in milliseconds as a function of the engine speed. This is then scaled against the TPS rate. The effect of this is that the maximum fuel pulse provided will be that in the table, but if the throttle is not being opened quickly enough, this will be reduced (for example, it may only give half of this value).
The status of each injector is then checked. If the injector is currently "on", then the duration of this pulse is added to the pulse that the injector is currently performing. If the injector is "off", a new pulse is triggered. This is done on all injector outputs simultaneously'

Clear as mud.

reality

Not just fuel, spark as well!

reality

Makes sense Dave.. any price?

DaveAVT

Around the Ł500 mark with all looms. A new hardware version has just been released with dual map capability, but the prices are changing slightly but for the better rather than worse..

*Bri.4.b.Cos*

Sounds ok to me

GARETH T

true,,, but who maps transient ignition control?

DaveAVT

Yes, I've never heard of that truthfully...

Not as an 'enrichment' of a TPS input over MAP..

Yes, if you were relying on TPS alone as load sensing..

GARETH T

but that would just be alpha n mapping, and not a transient

DaveAVT

I thought he might be getting at how quickly the map can respond on just using a TPS based system and the resolution of the input, but yes, that its still not an enrichment over the original map..

Like I said above, I have personally never heard of anyone trying to do transient ignition control..

DaveAVT

My old carb engine has vacuum advance on the dizzy, is this what he means?...

reality

Depends if you want to map an engine fully.. But in reality, the det you'll get between gear changes isn't such a drama on most engines because the engine is pretty un-loaded..

Garage19

Dave,

When "reality" refers to transient fueling he is refering to the table that can be found under what your ECU calls "throttle pump" settings.

Looks like you can set it to activate acell enrichment by setting the amount the TPS or MAP changes (looks like a raw data number?) in a selected time (m/s) and that then reads how much extra fuel to pump in off the table you call " Asynchronous Accelerator Pump Enrichment"

DaveAVT

Yes, and not just cell enrichement, at any point between normal pulses, hence ansynchronous..

AlexF

MAP and TPS is blended Alpha N.

Nowt special about that.

Ł500 quid is still miles more than MS... its the same league as most aftermarket Engine Management Systems like Omex or Emerald.

Alex

flax

i always found the ke stuff dated and too restrictive ie need for fifth injector.

has anyone seen or fitted the megajizz system to an rst would be great to here a bit of feedback on it.

Garage19

Well if someone fancies being the first and writing a report on here i will happily fit and map it for some beer money if you buy it from Phil at extraefi.co.uk

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

yeh but dont mention about ur hollow legs hey dougy

Garage19

Too right Jay

DaveAVT

Have a look at the specs and user manual on the site, its a bit more advanced than that, and the adaptive fueling techniques are the most advanced at present, and user friendly which is the whole point.

reality

Of course it's restrictive, but we were talking about the quality of the drive..

reality

Hi Dave,

Quick question.. so this ecu constantly adapts? Does it store the adaptive tables in eeprom or non-volatile ram?

Rick

KE and a 5th injector is a very good combination IMO. It's taken while, but my car drives at around 15:1 at most part throttle openings. The MF2 takes care of on boost fuelling. There is never a flat spot, as the KE takes care of all the transient stuff very well, the MF2 has the easy job of full throttle fuelling. The biggest problem is not the KE, but the ESCII igntion control - or lack of it.

I like the look of MS, mainly due to it's diversity, and the fact that you can alter the code to your hearts content. I'd like to get MS controlling just my ignition, and when i'm happy with that, i can wirk on it doing the fuelling side too.

The forthcoming GPIO and Router boards look very interesting.

reality

Which is interesting because MS is primarily a fuel controller with spark features bolted on..

I know someone who can do you custom esc2 chips to whatever you want..

Rick

Yes, so do i, but not being able to change them on the fly is the major drawback. However, if you could get hold of some specs, ie how many load points etc ESCII uses, that would make interesting reading.

DaveAVT

Its not an adaptive table, the ecu writes directly to the map live while driving or on the RR, to adapt to the user defined A/F ratio set across the entire rev range against load points. This can be done in rapid learning mode with less points set and with more interpolation by the ecu, or in slow converging mode, where every point down to 20rpm intervals are visited to form a more detailed map. This is done mainly after most of the bulk mapping is done.

If required, the ecu can be left in full live mode for day to day driving, where even a subtle modification such as changing the exhaust or air filter can be recalibrated by the self learning algorithm. This is still possible with a standard narrow band sensor, but with the direct link with the wideband units, it can be almost instantenous.

..Or you can just set the ecu to standard closed loop, with not corrections or open loop.

flax

to be fair dude any rst with 200+ bhp isnt exactly a smooth drive. with a cossie you`ve got the scope to combine drivability and power but 1600cvh engine chucking out big brake is as lumpy as school custard.

reality

Eh I can't say I agree with that, but i'll just put it down to us having different experiences.. Maybe the cars you've been in having been running Piper T2 cams

cossiecrew

flax

yeah mate the ones ive driven and been passenger in have all been lumpy and laggy till about 4000rpm no doubt due to cam profile and turbo choice.

but surely if your only running a 1600thes are part and parcel of big power my old s2 was abot 170 bhp on ke and smooth as feck. when i drove my pals 240bhp s2 it was like a total different car purely because the ke was at it very limit.

what i`m saying is surely exchanging this system for efi is going tobe less restrictive ie no air flow meter, better cold starting, and more scope for adjusting parameter to specific power needs etc.

then again if you decided to fit a bigger capacity engine, the ke will fall foul because of the increase in capacity wont it?? may be ok on na but when you start boosting it`ll lean out.