Anonymous

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Turbo car with leaking radiator is driven hard then ends up with no compression with a suspect head gasket



Light enough for you Frog?

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Yeah cheers chip really helpful (slaps forehead)

Could it really be the headgasket? It was thick positvely blue smoke?

Anonymous

Ive had smoke out on a head gasket before, but TBH its more likely to be the piston from my own experience.

Anonymous

First thing to do really mate rather than keep expecting people to guess from you very basic description is just pop outside for an hour and take the head off!

frog

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

this has bein missed and is very true hole in piston will generate no compression



cheers jay

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Detonation down the sides of the piston will normally leave quite a lot at starter motor speeds. In fact, ive seen one with full compression, even iwith a leakdown test and it was like a skeleton....

andyhardy

The gunk coming out of the oil breather would have got me looking at the gasket first!

Fair enough a little bit around the oil filler cap (if left outside) but you shouldn't see it in the breather!

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

well spank me silly never seen that before



cheers jay

Anonymous

Ive seen exactly what Stu is on about, the edge of the piston melted away, but the rings were still in place, so at low speeds (cranking) it was fine and compression wasnt down by much, but feck me did the bastard smoke

It looked like it was James Bond driving round castle coombe when i was doing my last lap after it melted!

Sexy-RS

So who is the 3rd Stu just out of intrest, Obviously I know Ahmed and yourself

Also isn;t the equipment to map then stupid ammounts of money?

CliffRS4

iTrader: (1)

Some great reading here.
Rob and SCC have worked on my car many a time and I have the utmost respect for them as it has been nothing short of excellent

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Not really for me to say who can and cant, but theres three i know who DEFFO can and your right about 2 of em.

Equiptment costs vary, and as i can map 99% of the systems in the world with an eprom mine cost Ł30K and we spend more on it EVERY month.

Sexy-RS

Oh now im even more intregued Stu Give us a clue lol

Graceland

a bit like this one Stu

Rob M666SCC

Rob M666SCC

Cheers

gearboxman

Now THAT'S what you call a skeleton staff

CliffRS4

iTrader: (1)

I bet he does the grave yard shift

Oranoco

Never had any complaints from SCC in the three years I've been using them. That's why I'm more than happy to have their name in my Sig.

Always proffesional and do a top job which is why they now get both my RS's and Audi, my bro's FRST, my mum's 2i and several other friends car collection

Ginge !

OK LETS GET ON THING STRAIGHT HERE !!!

this was not a name and shame post at all, this was a post to determine IF the cars fuel presure was down WOULD a garage in a set up check the fuel flow of the PUMP or JUST TURN IT UP !!!!!


the car as NOT done a head gasket,,,,,,,,,,, pat at scc actually tested the turbo for play EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS MAYONAISE COMMING OUT OF THE FUCKING BREATHER SYSTEM, he said it MIGHT be the turbo has just given up and then said there was play in the shaft so it might be that,,,,,, the i asked rob if he could comp test it JUST to be sure as it smelled and acted like a piston to me,,,,,,,, AND IM A FUCKING IDIOT WHO KNOWS NOTHING


the rad PISSING out water so bad that he header tank NEVER needed filling up or went past the min stage since we drove from chingford to central london IN TRAFFIC to pick me up and never over heated AS SCC HAD THE CAR RUNNING ON IDLE FOR AGES


the car was running BADLY,,,,,,,,,, rob when we picked the car up you quoted how RAPID it felt and that it appeared more than 200bhp when you drove it , cant have ran that bad then


what you are impyling rob is that the car is a shite box that has been bodged and clutching at straws cause the car MELTED driving out of yours within 2 miles


NOW lets see was this ginger prick thinks it COULD be,,,,,,,,,, AND ITS NOT SCC'S FAULT BTW


i BELIVE the fuel pump was failing hence the low fuel presure and YOU just turned it up WHERE what COULD have happend was to check the fuel flow to see if that was the reason BEFORE you upped the presure

now when thats gone up its cause MORE problems to the pump and its LEANED IT OUT WHEN DRIVING NORMAL as its gone soo lean and number 4 has let go POSSIBLY number 3 too as that had oil smoke comming out of it when the plug was removed


NOW the point in question was DID you NOT check the fueling when there was a problem OR did you just turn the presure up and take it for a BREIF spin and not test ON BOOST AT HIGH GEARS WITH LOAD ( foot on brake when on boost ect)

now this IS NOT SCC"S fault that the pump failed,,,,,,,,, but it IS that SCC never checked the condition of the pump if thats what failed,,,,,,,,, think about it fairly,,,,,,,,,,, if your rear brake pads worn on a sierra cosworth then just by experience the mechanic would test for seized caliper


with the fuel presure low would that not cause to check to see if the fuel presure reg was leaking OR the pump voltage/flow

otherwise whats the point paying for a set up to check fueling if you check it with a AFR, find its low and so turn up the presure to match


that was what i belive they question was and the reason we never mentioned SCC was cause if it was a pump failure then its not there fault that it melted but there system for checking the fueling on setting uo seems unsual


when i went to MSD stu set up my fucking ropey cossie,,,,,, he checked the map aswell which he did cause he had access too aswell as checked for boost leaks,,,,,,,, and found the boost leaked, he also commented on thing that he NEVER was paied for,,,,,, the rear pads look worn by 80%, front discs warped,,, changed 140 quid of iridium plugs for 10 quid 071's as they aint suited for the spec aswell as tested the car at full chat AND THEN TOOK ME OUT IN IT to see if i noticed a change, he done that witrh another guy of here aswell and noticed the fuel presure reg was leaking as he tests for things like that too


i just assumed that ALL set ups are done like this and you take your car to a place and tell them what you think and in return you get told there its lots more


if the pump was failing then would low fuel presure be a sign as well as maybe the voltage to the pump could be low due to speaker cable used to wire the fuel pump ( not on this car btw but a car whe seen a while ago )



simon IS NOT BOTHERED that the engines let go after it left SCC, just that he feels there was a problem with the car that wasnt spotted or miss diagnosed and as a result hes zetec plans are now having to come forward



that why SCC wasnt mentioned as it COULD be a thing thats not checked for just like the fuel filter is no checked if its clean on a set up


sorry for the long post as im trying not to do one but read what is says and then decide if you understand what he means

again i appologise

big_wig_074

well,scc have CERTAINLY been named now!
hope this dont turn out too expensive btw!

Ginge !

SCC was named by them though,,,,, and i hope rob knows that was wasnt out to cause trouble at all, just get ideas ect


as for it being costly,,,,,,, in all honesty the engine was a mule engine that we never expected to last 6 months,,,,,,,, its lasted a year so i sugested to get the fueling checked to see if my first engine porting job and drilling the CPS was working OK and if the engine let go then we know theres no come back,,,,,,,,,, just that if the fuel pump was fooked wouldnt it still have been lean when they upped the presure and took it out again,,,,,, especially as it melted 2 miles later whilst not under load,,,,,,, nor racing


just like to add that alot of my mates use SCC,,,,,,, my best mate is good friends of robs and i would not post up to start a problem when its a close friend of one of my best mates out of respect at the least thing



but read my post and ask yourself what would you think or ask ?

Rob M666SCC

Not standard practise unless we suspect the pump to be faulty, the presure was 7psi lower than it should be and no major running problems were reported so we turned up it to what it should be, the pressure gauge was on the car while it was running and there was no evidence that the pressure reg or anything else were to be faulty

answers on a postcard to...... (sorry couldn't resist it)

We topped it up as it did lose a fair amount while being tested - the temp was OK on roadtest though as we kept an eye on it....

before the work was carried out

was fine when i drove it - no signs of smoke etc.... Other than the idle issue that required further investigation

Not at all,
why do i need to clutch at straws

probably melted whilst going down that road between two roundabouts (you know that really long dual carriage way - good for a top speed run )



Whilst driving at 40 mph

the engine tune was carried out 1st then it was roadtested with wideband and it tested fine - no i didnt hold it flat out as you may have, its an RST and we dont do those kind of roadtests as these things happen


what a load of bollox it was a standard engine tune - if anyone suspected that the pump was a possible problem then they should have told us..... we carried out a standard tune as requested, what did you expect for Ł60 a full strip down and report ?????

Pressure reg was fine, wouldn't check pump voltages as std.... as above what do you want for Ł60

again - utter bollox

We checked the fuel pressure before it was roadtested and it was low....


Surely before taking for a engine tune all the filters and plugs were changed

Hope that answers your questions

Ginge !

rob what was the AFR when you tested the car after upping the presure


would a set up not check for potential problems there COULD be in the car


the car is not used for top speed runs,,,,, the reason that simon DONT hold his car flat out is the FIRST TIME he did was racing me comming back from central day and he melted the car,,,,,,,,, theres also a very good reason why we never ragged the car home too,,,,,,,, that road its VERY greasy as you know and the car torque steers like a cunt due to no LSD box,,,,,,,,,, as much as you may belive he held it flat out i promise he NEVER,,,,,,,,,,, i WOULD have but most of may mates are more into the turbo rush to show off at lights to there 16 year old girl friends


rob the point is not that the engine failed,,,,,,,,,, you know that i fitted the engine a year ago to get him about whilst he builds another engine but it held together for some reason,,,,,,, im annoyed as that was a engine that I personally bodged with my testing mechanics and it was running fine and fuel pump on its way out wasnt noticed by a pro when checking the fueling as i assumed that it would have been checked if there was a issue,,,,,,,,, but thats obviously not what happens in a set up


the price was irelevent too as he came there with MORE than 60 quid in his bank,,,,,,,,, if you found a problem then he would have paied for it,,,,,, if it required longer to check to be safe as melting in 4 weeks after would have been anoying, doing it when leaving is just,,,,,,,,, well feels wrong


you take your car to fords and get it serviced and they notice the fuel presure is low,,,,,,, if they upped it and it melted cause the pump was actually at fault what would happen ????

i just feel you have missed a problem with the car,,,,, thats all,,,,,,, checking the turbo BEFORE doing a comp test just worried me more as well as the comment " all turbo engines let go at the drop of a hat",,,,,,,, melting aint the same as letting go


the reason for not mentioning SCC is that i felt that it was NOT your fault it failed,,,,,,,,, if we never went to you it would have happened in the future OBVIOUSLY,,,,,,, just i feel you missed what seemed a simple thing but that is with hindsight and so could be seen as unfair,,,,,,, hence the post requesting what it could be caused by and would it have been checked before

Ginge !

as for plugs and filters being changed at each set up,,,,,,,, NO i dont actually, i change them personally each year or when i fit a new engine,,,, the fuel filter is recomended by fords to be changed every 6 years,,, i could be wrong though,,,,,,,, and the plugs also recomended every 3 years


so changing them after 6 months and 4k miles seems,,,,,,, well you hope to think that fords testing is more than that on ANY car,,,, thats when you forget that the efi fuel filter is twice the capacity as the cossie one

RichardPON

So car with leaky radiator, and old manky engine installed by Ginge blows up?

I'm restraining myself here Ginge

Rob M666SCC

If there was anything seriously wrong with it we would have seen that on the AFR for it to melt without ragging it......

If it was so obvious then why didn't you notice ? to melt whilst driving normal a man with experiance such as yours would have noticed surely

The AFR's were high 11's when on boost,

Rob M666SCC

Think he said he ported the head and machined a std MFi head to suit efi andbuilt the engine too......

Go on let it go

Ginge !

rich why restrain yourself,,,,,,, jsut say what you THINK then remember that ive fitted a FEW engines and this is the only one to fail,,,,,,,,, and that has nothing to do with me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and it was a manky 62k mile engine that i had stored for 3 years as i got another engine,,,,,, that i modded in a attempt to TEST so see if it could be done,,,,,, and that as lasy may and the car even in robs eyes was rapid so i cant have done bad

just remember that JUST cause i PLAY the fool and i act the mug at a pub meet with banter that some i know DONT mean im actually that silly,,,,,,, just cause my personal views on here are not what people agree with dont mean i cant fit a engine,,,,,,, hell even that shonky cossie engine i bought as a mule engine whilst i rebuild a engine for it has had all new gaskets, oil seals, lifters and had the cams checked and properly timed for the spec i want


the only reason it was at SCC for was the check the fueling was SPOT ON,,, any other problems should have been brought up and a leaking rad for a few days ( as he never had time to swop it has he worked the weekend) could have just had rad weld poured in it to stop it as it was that minor,,,,,,,, it was not pissing out


pon the comments about me BODGING the engine was PURELY a pisstake,,,,,,, i measured EACH port with fluid to check the sizes and then removed all the covers from the hoses and took a piccy as a pisstake on here for the Cowboi conversions on his car for humor,,,,,,, its never missed and the only problem we could not solve was the high idle,,,,,,,,, that SCC had a issue with finding the reason too ( but i new it was gonna be a fooker to find out why as i spent a while looking at it )


this aint a slagg off a tuner post,,,,,,, this is a " what was checked and if so why was it soo soon before it melted" post

sure of your car failed soo soon after a set up you would ask that,,,,,,,,,, but then have you even fitted a engine thats ran after,,,,,,,, see its a boring joke aint it

Rob M666SCC

Ginge !

rob how can i tell a engines gonna melt with NO afr gauge when a PRO like you needs one


rob when your turned up the fuel presure what testing DID you do after it,,, thats the one im wondering about,,,,,,,, if you turned it up and breifly checked it then thats fine,,,,,,,,, you never tested it correctly IMO for what was asked and another item failed that you never knew about cause the test wasnt done properly then thats seriously fine


what we dont get is that you can test the AFR and its spot on even though the pump when we test it MAY have such a low fuel rate or have a bad connection/faulty wiring that it dont make sence that it was tested proper after

meaning a school boy error ( we all do em) but atleast it explains what happens............. its not like hes gonna sue a person who charged him 60 quid for a set up and the person made a mistake and the 100 quid engine failed is worth having a row about in all honesty,,,,,,,, its not like you have melted a 600bhp cossie ffs




as for my engine building,,,,,,,,the engine failed AFTER you checked the fueling,,,,,,,, thats NOTHING TO DO WITH ME,,,,,,,,,,,, would that not sugest you are at fault rather than me,,,,,,,, not to mention that it never melted untill you touched the fuel presure,,,,,,,,, how can that problem be aimed at me,,,,,,,, is it cause your a pro and dont make mistakes and i would cause i post comments on the net

RichardPON

That's very true re: the engine, although it did come out and was fitted back in the old saff twice.

As for the rest of the waffle........... whatever

Ginge !

rob seriously simon aint bothered hence his post,,,,,, he feels let down that there a error that seems to me a minor problem missed by a profesional person with lots of experience,,,,,,,,, and also seems hard to belive aswell considering your experience too so we never mentioned who it was


im more anoyed as my engine project that was doomed actually worked and failed from such a silly thing that a AFR gauge in the car may have prevented but its not a gauge people buy,,,,,,,,,, but i will be buying one for my car now just incase


i do feel a engine health check would be fair before touching peoples cars so there aware of what is due to fail or "could" fail if its not looked at

but maybe you may do this for others in future,,,,,, maybe its not needed cause it never happens, i dont know as i sell car parts for a living and im not a mechanic

Ginge !

see pon you cant even comment on the engine that i done as it never failed through that and the reason it failed was the same reason it was at scc for,,,,,,,,, proving more that i not to blame and its just like blaming ima for a cam belt snapping when he fitted hes shock,,,,,, not related,, your just sticking up for a mate and i can respect that as well as your attempting to have a dig at me,,,,,,,,,, but this time its not working as i make sence on this im sure

RichardPON

I wasn't doing anything of the sort.

I was just pointing out the irony of you laying the blame at someone's feet, when you installed the engine and associated parts, AND the car has a leaking rad.

It doesn't bode well now does it?

tonyk

A few questions:

1. How many miles has this engine been in the car for?

2. Has it ever been setup?

3. Would increasing the fuel pressure cause this pump to fail?

4. If a car radiator is leaking to the extent its pissing out should the car not have been refused?

Ginge !

pon the rad was leaking from friday night,,,,,, was dropping water that when he picked me up and we left for SCC we pulled over at the mcdonalds ( for a coffee as i dont do mornings ) and the water was not low,,,,,,, you know where i live and know that to come from chingford to there at 830 requires traffic and not to mention the drive almost past your house to get there,,,,,,,,,,, cant have been that bad OR the reason it failed,,,,,,,,, BUT ill admit does come across as bad maintanance,,,,,, even if that aint the reason why it failed but mis-diagnosis was that ANYONE could do tbh as the car was running fine,,,,,,,,,, just needed a extra 10 mins to look at the voltage or the flow and would have double checked if the fuel presure was actually low or the pump was faulty


just my opinion and i admit that i have a hooge advantage of hintsight adn im sure if rob new what would ahve happened it would probaly checked that too ,,,,,,,,,,, but its done now

Rob M666SCC

[quote="b19bal"]rob how can i tell a engines gonna melt with NO afr gauge when a PRO like you needs one{/quote]

well your saying it had an obvious fault

How do you mean ???

When the pressure was turned up the car was running with the fuel pressure gauge on, we left it on whilst the idle co% etc was adjusted to suit and was removed before it went on roadtest with the wide band on it.... we did the adjustments BEFORE any roadtest was carried out.....



Could it not fail 8-10 miles later ?? who knows - it had 2 road tests after thepressure was adjusted.......

I find that VERY Very insulting, school boy error you fucking twat

I havent melted anything.........................



Maybe i should have left the fuel pressure low then

Ginge !

its been in the car for 4k miles,,,,,,,, but tbh he dont go over 100mph usallly for a few reasons,,,,,,, main one bein all of his mates dont have any fast cars running as there ALL let go or got sold last summer,,,,,,, includng his but hes a rich fooker who lucked out on my misfortune

he also just rags it in first and second usally racing saxos off thre lights hence his gearbox adiction


increasing the fuel presure would not ne the SOLE reason for it failing BUT may have pointed that the fuel pump was not upto it and turning it up would be like turning up the boost on a turbo with a leaking boost pipe i would have thought,,,,, over speed a turbo when theres another reason for it perhaps

the radiator wasnt pissing out and we did mention it aswell as them mentioning it and IF the failure was down to ANYTHING related ti the radiator then this post just shows what something simple in bad maintance can cause


its not the same as a leaking sump plug though imo,,,,,,,, remeber the engine melted