Ade

Looking for ideas for my rebuild.
Keeping things mostly standard, but making use of good bolt ons.

Previously it made 340bhp and 400lb/ft on a T34.48 (which has now been sold) after an MSD live map and drove great, but I would like to up the power figure, and get a bit more top end power.

Thinking of what might be a possible restriction for the 400-450 goal, and could be easily upgraded on a budget.

Spec:
Small compressor T38.63
Greys
Airtec RS500 cooler and alloy rad & turbo cooler
AEM water injection
L8 with closed loop
Gizzmo boost controller
Vernier pulleys
Standard 205 block
Standard head & cams
2WD inlet and exhaust manifolds
044 pump
Big wing baffled sump

Would mild cams that work with standard pistons be worthwhile?
Would the 2WD inlet be a restriction? And would the 4x4 and a spacer be an upgrade enough?
Also thinking about one of James of MSD's looms with wasted spark added in too.
Any other ideas welcome...

Billy_RS

iTrader: (5)

I had a Kent AB07 Inlet cam fitted to mine, as it doesn't require any valve cutouts in the pistons.

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

Ported head, valve cut outs and a BD16

Ade

Buying new pistons is exactly what I'm wanting to avoid!
Want to keep it simple...

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Ade, if budget allows pal buy a 200 block, that's not saying the 205 will disintegrate because my old Sapph had good power and torque as have many in the past and it survived, just that if you're doing a new build it would be the way I'd go to be sure.

Have you not thought of the T36 turbo Jay and a few others use?? Meant to be good early spool and apparently makes good numbers, or a 3071 and run it at less boost to get your 400-450??

Fezman1

iTrader: (1)

If your keeping std pistons, ie no cutouts - then an AB07 inlet cam is a worthwile upgrade imo. coupled with verniers for accurate cam timing.

Turbo wise keep an open mind gt3071, or jap drifters like the Holset Hy series.

Injectors greys would suffice, or siemens.

2wd plenum would be better swapped for 4wd or ST escos or Hart/AS

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't want greys @ 450 tbh, miles better injectors these days, as you say, Siemens would be better

Caddyshack

Leave the engine as is, add a Borg Warner and ideally a vipec.... Mine made 415 bhp on low boost and 470 on high....completely std engine but it drives more like normally aspirated than wizz bang turbo plus no pops or bangs due to the old fashioned l8 I had on it, plus te old gear got me Ł600 when I sold it. Both routes cost similar but the Borg Warner on new management feels the 20 plus years newer than the old school stuff.

Trust me, it is the way to go. If I now do head, cams and pistons I will see 520 to 540 bhp with low lag and the bigger turbos will make 600 to 800 if you want to go wild.

My car with 415 is far easier to drive than when it had 330 on t34 and l8

Mark Shead

You must taste the desert to know how sweet it is.
People don't understand how much diff/better this set up is.

Mark

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Are you on a 205 or 200 block fella??

Mark Shead

4wd 200.

Mark

eel-roy-t5r

how much is the vipec fitted and mapped i have a t34 and 55lbs to go along with a reyland inlet cam ??

Ade

This is totally going off on a tangent from my original post, but still interested to hear about all this...

So why would modern management make it drive better? Is it mainly just down to the extra mapping resolution points available?
I found mine drove great after am L8 live map!

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

ade certainly the t36 looks like a great 400bhp turbo without breaking the bank

Ade

Just bought a T38 though!
Also guessing that the smaller compressor housing T38.63 is going to be very similar to a T36.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

i would have thought a 38.63 would be a bit laggy ade

Ade

Bet it'll be fine! My mate's Escos has one and it's pretty awesome. Bit more mechanical spec on that, (cams, and cut out pistons etc) but still on P8 and doing near 500bhp.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

i think they need that kind of mechnanical sie to get the most out of them including a ported head ade .

the engine on my saff was built for a t4 but then got fitted with a t38 and from what i heard didnt drive that nice

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Lol, yeah Jim had a change of heart James, hard that Turbo on the car, UT T38 IT was, TT are better. Cams etc were totally Spec'd wrong


T38 on correct Spec is a fine turbo though tbh.

I'll go BW next time I go mad spending

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

im thinking of putting a standard head back on her pete,as it will be wasted on a t34/t36

i have a standard 200 bottom end that im thing of having built up for t4 power and then the head will be ace bolted on to it

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Yeah see how you feel James, it was such poor respone, Mark fitted and mapped Autronic on it for me and the torque was shockingly low, just total poor respone, long time ago now.

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

T38 on the right engine is awesome imo.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

what spec kev?

Mark Shead

Yours had the wrong cam combo.

Mark

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I said that above Mark, Spec was totally wrong for that turbo we made decent power, 457 bhp iirc but only 370ft/lb, think i may still have the graphs, saying that, it wasn't a slouch on the road tbf.

Mark Shead

They were wrong for just about any turbo.

Mark

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Fucking LOL

Caddyshack

The way I look at l8 vs vipec is a 1990 pc versus a 2014 pc, plus with a new loom, sensors and throwing away the reliance on a distributor for spark distribution you do away with a weak point, I went from Ahmed chip on l8. 1000cc injectors and some of Marks mapping magic makes a big difference and then the turbo makes it all happen.

It really is a totally different power delivery, the old engine was laggy at 330 plus bhp.

I know this is off on a tangent but it is honest advice having gone through the process myself.

I looked at the wasted spark setup but read too many people unhappy with Cossie engines popping and banging all the time with misfires etc so I thought it best to update after taking lots of advice from many people.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

its all about how deep your pockets are mate ,no one can deny ecu,s ,turbos etc have all moved on in the last few years

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

I've had Vi Pec from Sheady on my Evo and it is superb, oh and 3 Autronic ECUs on my other cars you'd think I'd have learnt by now to stop spending

You're only here once

Autronic I always thought was slow to start, always needed a few kicks if that makes sense?

Caddyshack

I am pretty sure that the efr turbo route would not be any more than the shopping list at the top of the page but the results are more responsive. I do plan a rebuild though to allow 520/530 bhp and torque aplenty.

martinembleton

Mark what sort of price you looking at if u have a standard 4x4 saph and wanted to go for the viper and Borg Warner drive in drive out jobby?

Cheers

Caddyshack

I don't think Mark is allowed to answer that sort of question on here although I canot see why he doesn't become a trader but I suspect there is some politics involved.

Vipec is going to be over Ł3k mapped and fitted with a new loom and new injectors. I needed a new exhaust as mine was too small for the power and then you need efr and manifold so budget another couple of grand but a standard engine rebuild is going to be over Ł3.5k from a reliable source plus any upgrades would easily eat up Ł1500 or more.

Remember though that if you did a full 400 bhp rebuild mechanically you would still need a remap to make it work and then you still have the 20 yr old ecu and wiring plus connections including a flipping distributor!

400 bhp properly and reliably done is not cheap...just look on here at how many threads end in people breaking cars, selling them or posting "I give up" and many of these are chasing problems.

I would wager that my car would outperform any Cossie running 400 bhp via head work, pistons and cams where they rely on the older style t34 or 36 and the old old style management. Sure the power is the same but look how early the borgs produce the torque, they are so much more driveable. I think mine is predicting more torque and power at 3000 a 3500 rpm than my t34 was doing at 7000.

I suspect that my new 1000cc injectors are a tad better than 15 yr old greens too.

Rod-Tarry

You have a 2014 Spec engine you cant compare it to something from the 1990's. People always quote the headline Power which is great at Brunters but its the low down torque that gives your Spec its grunt. Mark will tell you the twin scroll EFR range is the biggest advance since he started tuning

costina

iTrader: (1)

Ade, Pick a tuner and go with there advice for the turbo u want to use. Have it live mapped and lose the greys. go for wasted spark job done.

Spending 3k on fancy ecu's and stuff is not what u wanna hear eh

Paul

Caddyshack

Quite, you can ignore unbiased advice as much as you like....I have had my say based on my own money an experience. Old Skool or new Skool...it is up to you.

Remember , the earth was believed to be square before.

In my opinion, wasted spark and old Skool turbos are still goings to throw up lag and problems but " you pays your money and takes your chances" as me old dad used to say.

Welcome to come and experience my car if you like.

gjh

Don't forget a decent head gasket.

Caddyshack

Good point, It is also worth making sure it is long studded when apart.

When I have my engine apart for the head, cam and pistons I am going to long stud it...would be nice if the alloy blocks come down in value too as it is a good weight saving in a heavy part of the car.

ALSO: My previous response looks a bit argumentative and narky, I had a very bad day and my Range Rover was broken in to in London to polish off the day so please excuse my poor attitude . Pick a tuner and stick with that advice is actually a very sensible idea instead of getting pulled from pillar to post.

costina

iTrader: (1)

only long stud if 200 block

costina

iTrader: (1)

we all have an opinion