Hi Guys

I have a sapphire cosworth which has a slight issue. Its running a stage 1 MSD chip but is only putting out around 240bhp, I used to have a PTS chip which did the same thing. This leads me to believe there is a problem elsewhere.

The fuel runs rich from around 3k to 5.5k boost is set at 16 psi I believe.

I am awaiting the graph when it comes I will show it.

 

Read on our website relating to what we do during a set up, try to do the bulk of thast as diagnoses.

Most stage 1 conversions will go lean after 5500rpm as the injectors run out of duty up there,

You need to look at sensors, fuel pressure, timing, and the way its set up first.

 

My concern with this is when I had it on the rolling road they did not check anything, just said that the fuel was wrong pretty much. Live map would be best. I think a proper set up is what I need. just seem that every specialist is miles away.

 

Yes, there is very little reason for a live map on stage 1 unless the engine spec is very odd, at which point it generally isnt a stage 1.

Take it to a good tuner for a set up and find out whats up and why.

 

In my opinion it's always worth a drive for a good tuner it may be a couple of tanks of fuel but at least you get it sorted and will save loads of money in the long term! You also get a day out and I always seem to learn about my car in the process!

 

This I need to do. My problem is I'd like it done sooner rather than later, this week preferably but all the places are likely to be booked. Any chance after that will be a while away.

Totally agree.

 

The drive home is always fun too! Lol

 

This

On Thursday im off to Turbosystems to have my 3dr set up on a stage 1 chip.

231.6 miles each way according to autoroute

Time and fuel but still loads cheaper than a engine rebuild

Steve

 

Agreed!

 

your fuel bill will be higher than my bill

 

I will hold you to that lol

I bet it wont be

Steve

 

Yes but he'll get the witty banter for free

 

All I do is make the tea all day while he works on the car lol

Steve

 

Steve, get that T36 etc on it mate and let Tony work his mapping magic on it

 

Stage 1 only Pete

4i for poweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

Steve

 

Where is turbosystems?

 

ST57RH

Steve

 

That's not too bad, how do I contact the man?

 

07587188434

Steve

 

Cheers

 

Strange , i have the same problem.
Also MSD stage 1.
But at dyno testing the ARF and turbo pressure was ok !!!
Checked everything and all was working fine.
Only thing i didn't check was cam and ignition timing.
My 3dr had only 191 x 17 % = 224 bhp and 288 Nm !!!!!

For the rest the car runs fine only consumes at lot of fuel.
13.8 liter/100km normal traffic driving, not racing.
Oil consumption is ok, 0.3l/1000km

 

I had a graph with my stage 1 was down on torque more than anything think it 220lb/ft which seemed a bit low and did feel 'lacking' on road. Since a rebuild with a repuatable engineer who reckons the cam timing was not optimum I can feel the torque is much better now running same spec.

 

Check your car hasn't got the octane adjust wires ground.

 

picked up my 2WD sapphire from Turbosystem earlier this month, runs perfect now! its well worth the drive (i live in milton keynes) to take it to a specialist. Wouldnt take my car anywhere else.

 

Hi Stu , i will do !

I send James a mail with more details.
I also have video's from Bhp and AFR runs.

As i have done the head recently, is it possible to set a cam 1 tooth wrong ?
I have cheked and recheked but beginning to doubt now .

 

No wires are free.
Rechecked ignition : ok
Rechecked cams : ok

Turbopressure ( on dashboard) peaks ar 1.4 bar and settles at 1.1 bar.
Could a loss of compression give such a loss of power ?

 

To be fair most stage 1 chips maintain the std ignition map which is VERY conservative.

For example at 1 bar boost most stage 1 cars are running ignition timing of single figures (i.e. anywhere from 1 - 9 degrees) where as in fact at 1 bar boost a std engine will take up to 20 degrees of ignition! This fact alone is why a normal stage 1 car will only make around 250bhp. (i.e. we are upping boost from approx 10psi to 15psi for an extra 40 bhp) To expect any more than that increase from just a 5psi increase is unrealistic.

When mapped correctly it is possible to make closer to 300bhp on a stage 1 setup.

 

Fair enough.
But i expect from a trusted compagny to give realistic output figures then.
Not stating 280 bhp when getting an almost standard 224 bhp.

Al this assuming that all the rest of the engine is ok of course !!
But for the moment i can't find anything wrong. And AFR seems ok.
When checking the ignition i indeed saw that advance never got earlier than idle ( 8° i think )

I will check compression rate next , but nothing makes me feel this won't be ok.
But measuring is knowing.

 

idle advance is 16 degrees have you checked the ford unleaded loom hasn't been fitted

 

How come when I googled turbosystems for the post code I came up with this?

http://www.turbo-systems.com/Home.asp

 

Is the 224bhp @ wheels?

 

Don't want to hijack thread, I called up to turbosystems last month to speak with tony & it's gone??? A company called psi is in his building...??
Unless he has moved????

 

You are right , it's 16°.
But i see the timing only retarding when giving throttle , never advancing from idle mark.

Yes I have checked.Both wires are not grounded.

 

No it's 191.76 bhp on the wheels at 17% loss in gearing gives +- 224 bhp at flywheel.
17% is a common average power loss. Not measured !!

 

One thing comes to my mind now.
I fitted also a knocksensor. This will not be defect and cutting the power down ?
Could it be sensing the piston slap , as i have some piston slap.

 

I am confused as to why you have fitted a knock sensor?

I read you have a 3dr, which should be on either a L1 ecu or L6. Neither of these support knock sensor input, nor will the loom have the wires present.

Have you changed to using L8?

192@wheels, although a touch low for a stage 1 car is not that far out. I would normally expect around 210@wheels for an average stage 1 car, perhaps 220@wheels on a very good one.

I'll await your answer regarding what ecu you are running before speculating further?

 

Indeed , i changed to L8 closed loop.

When you take 210 at the wheels x 17 % you get 245bhp at the flywheel, thats already 20bhp more.

 

In most applications, most tuners disable the knock sensor software. I certainly never use it on any stage of tune on L8. Probably best to confirm with MSD whether your software requires the knock sensor to be connected.

It may also be that your engine is tired. 3dr's are reknown for having terrible engines, so if you have a tired engine then perhaps your power level is correct.

One last test will be for you to monitor ignition timing under full boost to see what is happening. If the AFR is correct, the boost correct, then its either lack of ignition timing or a tired engine that is responsible for the low power level. (Assuming ACT's are not excessively high on your RR)

 

I have checked the ignition giving throttle.
Not under load !
All i saw was the timing retarding from idle (16°) point.
Just how much i couldn't say.
I will check at MSD what the ignition timing should be. Maybe Stu can answer here.


I think detonation is not a great danger as the AFR under full load went down to 11.1 , or is this a wrong assumption ?

I will check compression and boost level again this week.

PS:

What's ACT and RR ?

 

Air Charge Temperature
Rolling Road

Steve