cossiedad

Hi all.

I have a 2wd saph with std fuel pump, braided pump loom fitted last year when I rebuilt her. All has been fine, then took her out Wed night and no problem. Went to go out Thurs night and engine turns with spark but no fuel pump.
Have checked the battery feed and it shows 12v. Have tried changing Crank Position Sensor but no joy. Immobilisor doesn't cut fuel pump so that's out of the equation too. The pump trigger wire is black with red stripe but has only 0.5v going through it.

Any ideas please?

cheeRS

chrisa3

iTrader: (1)

What about the fuel cut switch/trigger in the spare wheel well, sure that hasnt tripped somehow?

cossiedad

Forgot to mention that the cut off switch is now cut out of the circuit, so not that.

cheeRS

mechanic28

iTrader: (5)

yep i been caught out with that before

cossiedad

Any other ideas please guys?

Longshanks

Fuel pump relay working ok ??

cossiedad

Long shanks, can you describe which relay you are referring to please ie colour, location, and how to test please?
The pump loom has it's own relay which has 12v battery feed, an earth which is good, the trigger feed wire which is showing 0.5v and the output live to the pump.
I think there is a yellow relay under the glovebox which provides the trigger feed??
cheeRS

Longshanks

It is the yellow one under glove box I was referring to mate, not sure if you are still using this with your new loom .when it comes to testing it not sure as I have a set of new relays and just swap to see if working .

daz-cos

Had this prob with mine I took out the yellow relay and linked it out with a bit of wire, can't remember what colors to link but two of them will be bigger so try them if it works it's a knakerd relay

Chreers daz

cossiedad

I think it's still used for the trigger feed. Was hoping I had a spare relay myself but I cldn't find one today. Anyone know where I can get a new relay? (it may be readily available but I don't know). I would think the trigger signal should be 4v or 5v, maybe even 12v? Does anyone know how much it should be?
cheeRS

daz-cos

Got mine from halfords about Ł4 instead of the Ł40 ford wanted, you should be getting 12v mate

Cheers daz

opposite lock

iTrader: (3)

The old o.e pump wiring which now is the trigger for your new relay should be +12v switched of course. o.e pump live to new relay pin 86 , o.e pump earth to new relay pin 85. New pump live fused direct from battery to pin 30 on new relay , 87 to pump live. Earth the pump direct back to battery.

cossiedad

Anyone know where I can get one of these yellow relays from please? I know there is eBay, but I need it asap or I'm not going to Ford Fair.
Halfords was mentioned but they no longer sell them.
Have tried Maplins but they also don't sell them.
All ideas on the issue or relay welcome.
cheeRS

Longshanks

Pm me your address and I'll post you one out I have a new one (spare)

cossiedad

PM not working on phone so will send tmrw morning when can get on laptop. Thank you.

cossiedad

Or can send an email if you give me your email address?
cheeRS

cossiedad

FAO Longshanks Did you get my PM today? Thanks again for your kindness and help.

Longshanks

Mate just finished graft (10) dug relay out for you . I'll send it next day delivery for you

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

Had the same on mine last week, was the trigger wire just needed pushing in and the secondary relay (aftermarket) one of the spades wasn't in proper

Longshanks

Did you get the relay I sent mate

cossiedad

Hi. Yes I did get the relay today but won't have chance to try it til tmrw. I have to say thank you again. Will let you all know tmrw how I get on.
cheeRS

cossiedad

Oh dear! So I replaced the relay and no difference. Still getting 0.5v out of the relay to the trigger wire, and the same reading at the other end of the trigger. Am I right in thinking the trigger wire runs directly to the back of the car through the main loom? Or is it run via another component ie ECU?
I'm thinking of running a replacement wire from the relay output to the relay in the boot, through a 30A fuse. Any reason I shldn't do this?
cheeRS

cossiedad

Anyone?

Longshanks

Nightmare mate. Sorry I can't help anymore. Good luck in sorting before ford fair

cossiedad

Longshanks. I am stubborn and resilient, so I'll be trying to fix it all day tmrw to try and get there. Are you going to Ford Fair? If so, are you on stand anywhere? Thanks for all help so far.
cheeRS

COLEYST200

iTrader: (3)

you should only get 12v for a split second then it will cut off and will come back to 12v when you try to start the motor just check that its not had a fuse put in the loom nere the relay as my saff loom im using on my focos as had one fitted have you got a power probe as you could put 12v down the black red wire which runs the pump but to be safe un plug the ecu as it runs the pumps

cossiedad

Coley. The black/red wire is the trigger wire I am referring to from the yellow relay under glovebox to the pump (pump relay in my case as I have new loom). I get constant 0.5v when ignition on and 0v when ignition off. Does this wire go directly back to pump or via ECU? If it goes direct, can I run a replacement wire to the pump (my pump relay as I have new loom) or does it feed anything else after the yellow relay?
cheeRS

cossiedad

Also, which wire should be getting the split second 12v? Do you mean the trigger wire? I will look for a fuse tmrw but I've not seen one yet.
cheeRS

COLEYST200

iTrader: (3)

wot i would do to start with is unplug the ecu then try putting 12v on the pump at the pump and see wot that dose if ok then bell the wiring out all so make shower the earth is ok then if you have a look on the loom on the ecu inside the car you will find a plug with 5 wires in it the black red will be there try putting 12v down that wire but do not have the ecu pluged in as the last fing you wont to do is back fead it

Longshanks

Can't make it this year .. Gutted .. Hope you sort it mate and have a good weekend

COLEYST200

iTrader: (3)

the ecu will run the pump for a split second using the black red then when you turn the key the ecu will run the pump constent

COLEYST200

iTrader: (3)

a good web site to look at is BIGTURBO.CO.UK

cossiedad

Well with direct feed the pump runs fine. I think you are talking about the pump priming up ie getting the pressure correct, but I'm getting nothing at all. Unfortunately I think maybe I have already tried sending the feed down with ECU plugged in. Is that likely to of fried the ECU?
What I need to know is does the trigger wire run direct to pump or via ECU after the yellow relay? And would there be an issue with running replacement wire between the 2 relays (short term of course)?
cheeRS

COLEYST200

iTrader: (3)

The black red wire dose go from the relay to the pump
you sould of been ok if you had the ecu pluged in as the relay should not let the volts go back to it

COLEYST200

iTrader: (3)

yes you could run a hot wire back to the pump but it would be best to sort it right as dont forget if you dont have the ecu running the pump it will run all the time

cossiedad

Right then guys, I still need some help. Thanks to Whizzisat who took the time to speak to me on the phone and test a few items, however no joy. So far I have tries the following:
New Crank Sensor - no difference
New yellow relay - no difference
New pump loom relay - no difference
Changed every fuse - no difference
Tried another ECU and chip - no difference
Ran a direct trigger wire from yellow relay to pump relay - no difference
Cut off switch in boot is definitely bypassed and disconnected
Have got spark, however my group A coil is sometimes making a fast continuous clicking sound with ignition on, but not always so cld be irrelevant.

I must be missing something, there has to be more to the circuit than the workshop manual says.

Please help!!!! Any suggestion no matter how daft or basic you think it is, as I may of missed it. Didn't get to have my car on stand at Ford Fair as it was stuck in my garage and that has pissed me off to say the least!

cheeRS

Turbosystems

iTrader: (5)

there is nothing more to the circuit than the workshop manual shows the std fuel pump relay is earth switched by the ecu pin 28
if you ground pin 28 as a test your fuel pump should work
that will eliminate the easy fix problems of basic easy relay operations and wiring

Isaac.Hunt

What is the input voltage (pin 30) on the original fuel pump relay? Is it 0.5v, the same as the output voltage?

cossiedad

Tony. I have tried that while speaking to Whizzisat and it made no difference. I also tried a continuity check on the wire back to ECU and that was fine. That was when he suggested trying another ECU. So I went and bought one to try but no change. (Not wanting to go off track, but, I tried to meet you at Ford Fair but kept missing you at Matts stall. Wanted to apologize as I had the rubber bumper insert I promised you for Storm in my car, but forgot to pick it up when we gave up on the pump at 2pm on Sat.)
cheeRS

cossiedad

Isaac. Which relay are you talking about? The braided loom runs battery to a new relay in boot, and then to pump. It takes the trigger from the black with red wire which is from the output of the yellow relay under dash.
The yellow relay has 12v continuous, 12v ignition, earth to ECU (0v and continuity checked), and the black with red trigger to the boot which has 0v with ignition off and 0.5v with ignition on.
Not at car now to see pin numbers.

cheeRS