Cant beleve my luck
18-03-2011, 10:43 AM
#1
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
Cant beleve my luck
Well after just a month of having my cosworth set up proply at msd has giving up already.noticed last night after going shopping with our lass overtaking a tracktor i noticed abit of steem coming through the bonnet.stoped and checked and water had spat out the header tank.not alot but obviously clear.looks like a headgasket to me.only done 400 mile.what i cant understand is that the car drives mint.no misfires or smoke or nothing.even still goes very well to.just paid all this money for nothing.am not a happy man.so does this sound like head gasket.
18-03-2011, 11:03 AM
#3
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
No mate it doesnt.just coolant smell.no had all work done by msd including head skim and multilayer gasket.i dont no much about cosworths thats y i always get car sent away.
18-03-2011, 11:17 AM
#5
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
I have mate.waiting for a call back.im inpatient as hell.just want other peoples opinions before on what i decide to do.cant afford to do anything to it no more
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18-03-2011, 11:46 AM
#10
i will call you when i get back bruny im just heading out on the road.
this may be an issue with having to use such a thick head gasket (Metal)
and without skimming the block, due to your piston protusion issue on cylinder 4.
As i said to you ideally it needs the engine out and piston crown machined. But that wasnt going happen without going way over budget, its just a shame someone has bodged a rebuild on her at some point.
We will do what we can to help though mate, dont worry.
this may be an issue with having to use such a thick head gasket (Metal)
and without skimming the block, due to your piston protusion issue on cylinder 4.
As i said to you ideally it needs the engine out and piston crown machined. But that wasnt going happen without going way over budget, its just a shame someone has bodged a rebuild on her at some point.
We will do what we can to help though mate, dont worry.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 18-03-2011 at 11:51 AM.
18-03-2011, 12:16 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Cheers for that james.but am going to cut my losses and get rid of it.i dont want to spend no more money on it.am defintly not going to break it as there is a good car still in her.
18-03-2011, 12:45 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Just had a call from local garage.had a quick check over .everything seems ok compression is good.no sighns of water leaks.going to do a sniff test soon to confirm if gasket has gone.hope its good news but dout it.how much reserve would people put on my car if they wer to sell it.i dont really want to but i need to.i can understand how the car drives no diffrent to before just when you give it boost for a period of time.
18-03-2011, 01:37 PM
#15
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Thread Starter
Yep headgasket is shot.as for the posture of the piston has nothing to do with this.it would cause compresion increase but it hasnt as its just been checked. .cant be cracked head because surely the head was pressure tested when it had skim and valve seals.iv had this confirmed by 3 garages ive just been on the fone to.amd for in writing i was told nothing about head gasket issues.all i was told was piston 4 was a tad higher but was told to get a multi layer gasket to prevent damage.nothing to do with head gasket blowing.
Last edited by bruny; 18-03-2011 at 01:47 PM.
18-03-2011, 01:51 PM
#16
Yep headgasket is shot.as for the posture of the piston has nothing to do with this.it would cause oil damage not headgasket.cant be cracked head because surely the head was pressure tested when it had skim and valve seals.iv had this confirmed by 3 garages ive just been on the fone to.amd for in writing i was told nothing about head gasket issues.all i was told was piston 4 was a tad higher but was told to get a multi layer gasket to prevent damage.nothing to do with head gasket blowing.
Sorry mate, I just "assumed" that it would have been in your work report that we advise to strip and rebuild but I accept I should have asked James if he did put that in writing first.
However,
I do remember sitting next to James when he had a lengthy discussion with you and advised you we cannot guarantee a 1.5mm thick Multi Layer Steel head gasket unless we strip the engine and deck the block to the correct standard of finish and you specifically asked us to go ahead anyway as that was out of budget.
That part is clear in my mind, but I will dig out the work report when James comes back from testing with Kenny later as I would have expected him to reiterate that the correct solution for your engine was a strip and rebuild due to having three skimmed pistons and one standard.
18-03-2011, 01:54 PM
#17
Just had a call from local garage.had a quick check over .everything seems ok compression is good.no sighns of water leaks.going to do a sniff test soon to confirm if gasket has gone.hope its good news but dout it.how much reserve would people put on my car if they wer to sell it.i dont really want to but i need to.i can understand how the car drives no diffrent to before just when you give it boost for a period of time.
Your local to me, just curious
18-03-2011, 02:27 PM
#18
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
All i was told the piston could do with a skim.nothing about a block skim.before the head was done i had the car checked for a head gasket failure to be on the safe side and it was 100 percent spot on.so the deck would of been flat as i have a reciept to proove the block was skimmed before my ownership.i only had the head skimmed by ure self because of the boost increase i didnt want it going pop.the compression is all good as i have just had it checked.as for the head work you did for me surely the head was in good nick as i asked james if it was in good condition and was told it was.so was it pressure tested.iv been assured the piston issue has nothing to do with the gasket blowing.i could of just been supplied a dogy gasket oe what ever. Not making a feud by saying its down to you lot for it happening but am getting the impression that you trying to blame the piston problem for this and that i was told about it that mighr cause hg failure but was not
18-03-2011, 02:52 PM
#19
You have to have the block decked for multi layer gasket you will find that info on every single gasket thread on this site - if you were advised on this but you give the green light due to budget then it was abig risk on your part.
Sounds dodgy having an odd piston in there, says a lot for the engine build really
Sounds dodgy having an odd piston in there, says a lot for the engine build really
18-03-2011, 02:55 PM
#20
Bruny we had quite a long phone conversation about this, the gasket used was very thick, the only way we could avoid piston to head contact due to the piston protrusion on cylinder 4, i certainly have never had to use a gasket this thick before, so could never say it would 100% be sucessful, it was with your consent we gave it a go as your budget would not stretch to an engine overhaul, so we really had no choice but to try this route.
I also had various pms with you about gasket selection, where i advised you use a GRP A gasket, because of the reasons of block skimming, which is why you supplied us with a GRP A gasket to use. unfortunatley it would not have overcome our issue in this case though.
At the end of the day, the thick gasket has not worked, so the engine needs to come apart, just as it really did when we had the head off to be 100% sure it would be perfect. If you take it apart you will be able to use the GRP A gasket you have in the boot.
I also had various pms with you about gasket selection, where i advised you use a GRP A gasket, because of the reasons of block skimming, which is why you supplied us with a GRP A gasket to use. unfortunatley it would not have overcome our issue in this case though.
At the end of the day, the thick gasket has not worked, so the engine needs to come apart, just as it really did when we had the head off to be 100% sure it would be perfect. If you take it apart you will be able to use the GRP A gasket you have in the boot.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 18-03-2011 at 03:03 PM.
18-03-2011, 03:13 PM
#21
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
Well at the end of the day its failed on me.full stop.so a tip for any 1 not to spend 130 quid on a gasket.as brammer says the block needs skimming to.i was not told about this but y would it when it was perfect before the head was taking off.its never over heated or warped on me.
18-03-2011, 03:30 PM
#22
the block has been skimmed before, no doubt about that, thats why the pistons have been machined to reduce the height of them, (well 3 have been)
the blocks usually distort around the center head bolt holes, this may or may not be the cause of the issue, but again a deck skim means an engine overhaul, so we had no choice but to try our luck really with your consent.
i diont know how well a gasket that thick will work with your power level, i have never had to use one before. The chosen gasket of choice for your spec was the GRP A which is what i advised you to supply us with, before we found the issue.
my advice to you mate, is to pull the motor out, and go over it,just like it says on the work report. Most of the parts you have, or we have used will go again, it will be a good car when its done, its just unfortunate for you really.
the blocks usually distort around the center head bolt holes, this may or may not be the cause of the issue, but again a deck skim means an engine overhaul, so we had no choice but to try our luck really with your consent.
i diont know how well a gasket that thick will work with your power level, i have never had to use one before. The chosen gasket of choice for your spec was the GRP A which is what i advised you to supply us with, before we found the issue.
my advice to you mate, is to pull the motor out, and go over it,just like it says on the work report. Most of the parts you have, or we have used will go again, it will be a good car when its done, its just unfortunate for you really.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 18-03-2011 at 03:35 PM.
18-03-2011, 03:51 PM
#23
Is it just me, but im confused why its seems msd is getting the blame ? yes the headgasket failed after it had been fitted by them, but when the engine was in bit they advised about one of the piston being different, block needing refaced for steel headgasket etc you said to go ahead anyway so shouldt it really be lesson learned on your part spend a bit more money and get it done right ?
Craig
Craig
18-03-2011, 03:57 PM
#24
I dont see us getting the blame, and i dont blame Lee either, I would be gutted if i was in his position,
nobody is really to blame as far as i see, We did what we could to try and help out, the ideal solution to the problem wasnt an option, thats nobodys fault, it wasnt my money i was spending, so cannot do anything without the owners consent. i would have liked nothing more then to pull the engine out and do the job.
We went through the options, and there really wasnt to many! Lee decided to try the thick gasket to avoid any piston to head contact. Its a real shame it hasnt worked, but ultimatley it needs an engine overhaul to cure the issue once and for all, so a normal gasket can be used.
nobody is really to blame as far as i see, We did what we could to try and help out, the ideal solution to the problem wasnt an option, thats nobodys fault, it wasnt my money i was spending, so cannot do anything without the owners consent. i would have liked nothing more then to pull the engine out and do the job.
We went through the options, and there really wasnt to many! Lee decided to try the thick gasket to avoid any piston to head contact. Its a real shame it hasnt worked, but ultimatley it needs an engine overhaul to cure the issue once and for all, so a normal gasket can be used.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 18-03-2011 at 04:24 PM.
18-03-2011, 03:58 PM
#25
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Thread Starter
Fiesta how is msd getting the blame? I stated am not having a go or blaming.we all just talking over everything.so dont start saying msd is geting the blame to start this thread into a argument.
18-03-2011, 04:02 PM
#26
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
Imust of mis heard things when we wer talking over.if i was told the block needed refacing i would of no dout payed for the piston work.its just 1 of them things realy.if it has a cosworth badge on the back thats y lol
18-03-2011, 04:05 PM
#27
20K+ Super Poster.
Maybe the lesson could be buy a car you CAN afford to maintain as needed ?
No one can do a perfect job with one hand tied behind their back so to speak, clearly a skim would have erased doubts, so 100% down to penny's not being available imo.
tabetha
No one can do a perfect job with one hand tied behind their back so to speak, clearly a skim would have erased doubts, so 100% down to penny's not being available imo.
tabetha
18-03-2011, 04:08 PM
#28
you may have been lucky though mate, my fingers were crossed thats for sure, but unfortunatly not
one way to look at it, You asked us to lift the head, because you thought the previous owner had skimpt on parts and not used a grp a gasket, well he had used the gasket, but did a half hearted job after a melt down by the look of it,and just thrown a new piston in number 4, ignoring the fact it was 0.5 mm higher than the rest and probably hitting the head.
At least now you KNOW exactly what needs to be done, it doesnt need to cost the earth from where you are now,
put it in the garage, gather the bits you need to do the job and it will end up a good car mate. shes nearly there.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 18-03-2011 at 04:22 PM.
18-03-2011, 04:33 PM
#30
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
Again i was not told the block would need a reface to go with the gasket.i was just told the gasket would help avoid contact if there would of been any.but wasnt.when i was told a gasket was a option i just went for that.garages iv spoken to today have said its got nothing to do with the block or head.its clearly the hg what is at fault.nothing else!!
18-03-2011, 04:34 PM
#31
it was the only option without taking the engine out and stripping it,and that wasnt an option due to budget.
we discussed mulitlayer gaskets on the phone, and via pm when you booked the car in, and asked what gasket you should use.
the multi layer gaskets can do massive power, but ive not known anyone try one this thick,
Feel free to book her in so i can take a look, but i know its a trek for you mate.
we discussed mulitlayer gaskets on the phone, and via pm when you booked the car in, and asked what gasket you should use.
the multi layer gaskets can do massive power, but ive not known anyone try one this thick,
Feel free to book her in so i can take a look, but i know its a trek for you mate.
Last edited by James @ M Developments.; 18-03-2011 at 04:46 PM.
18-03-2011, 06:04 PM
#32
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From what i see,hg failed as customer could no afford to do job properly and was willing to take a gamble,which hasnt paid off,and know wants to blame somebody else,we have all been in this situation,this is why,i only do jobs for ppl now,if they want it done correct and are willing to spend the money,bit of advice to stu and the gang,dont cut corners,even when the customer agrees,as when it does go rong you get the bad rep,should have put head in boot and told guy to collect car if he couldnt afford a 100% repair.same old story,cosworth = cheap performance =expencive to maintaine
sorry to sound harsh
cheeRS stu
sorry to sound harsh
cheeRS stu
18-03-2011, 07:27 PM
#33
From what i see,hg failed as customer could no afford to do job properly and was willing to take a gamble,which hasnt paid off,and know wants to blame somebody else,we have all been in this situation,this is why,i only do jobs for ppl now,if they want it done correct and are willing to spend the money,bit of advice to stu and the gang,dont cut corners,even when the customer agrees,as when it does go rong you get the bad rep,should have put head in boot and told guy to collect car if he couldnt afford a 100% repair.same old story,cosworth = cheap performance =expencive to maintaine
sorry to sound harsh
cheeRS stu
sorry to sound harsh
cheeRS stu
couldnt of put it betta maself,
18-03-2011, 08:33 PM
#35
From what i see,hg failed as customer could no afford to do job properly and was willing to take a gamble,which hasnt paid off,and know wants to blame somebody else,we have all been in this situation,this is why,i only do jobs for ppl now,if they want it done correct and are willing to spend the money,bit of advice to stu and the gang,dont cut corners,even when the customer agrees,as when it does go rong you get the bad rep,should have put head in boot and told guy to collect car if he couldnt afford a 100% repair.same old story,cosworth = cheap performance =expencive to maintaine
sorry to sound harsh
cheeRS stu
sorry to sound harsh
cheeRS stu
18-03-2011, 09:04 PM
#36
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
Again il say it again how the hell am i trying to put the blame on msd.so the hg failed. so i didnt go ahead with geting the piston done.so u telling me that is the reason y the hg failed.no 1 will no until it gets done.so all the keyboard warriors on here who problys doesnt no nothing please keep there opinions to them self.as for cutting corners with the car.yes i did.cos ive never had a cosworth before, ive always had reliable honda motors in my life.i will learn by my mistakes.
18-03-2011, 09:11 PM
#38
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
A local mechanic garage and a bmw specialist who does work on performance cars.as stated the comp ratio came back all spot on so the piston is deffintly not to blame and said who ever said a piston to cause hg failure needs to go back to school
18-03-2011, 09:26 PM
#40
Regular Contributor
Thread Starter
I would of but the price i was giving was way to much for me.with the car been near 150 mile away from me in bits i had no choice in to give it a miss.but it has never caused a problem,i just cant get over why people think its down to the piston what has caused this.its down to a hg not suitable for the job,simple