why do people go to the expense of buying chips and getting them mapped when you can buy like megasquirt for 300 quid and have infinite mapping just at the expense of a rolling road or a bit of live mapping with someone driving it????

 

Megasquirt + loom + fitting + mapping = More expensive than a chip.

 

yeah but if you go stage one then two then three?? and what about if you want to swap turbos...you can just have it for the edis cant you? surely that is a bonus even on a standard car then you have the flexibility in the future to do other stuff???

just curious and didnt know if many people have done it on a yb turbo

i see loads of different chips advertised then all the other add ons from the likes of motorsport developments then i just thought surely it could be all done cheaper...you can have boost control and launch control and anti lag the lot on most of them cant ya?

i am no expert but quite interested to find out more!

 

For me the attraction of an aftermarket ECU is more about reliability. My car has a new car loom and new ECU and this, in theory, should mean that I avoid the miscellaneous electrical problems that plague old Cossies. Because I run a restrictor the mapping needs to be spot on too.

Having said all that I've just had a Gotech Pro X ECU fail in dramatic fashion and it's going to get replaced now.

I don't think they are necessary to increase performance and to go from standard ECU to the Gotech and Coilpack is pretty expensive.

Charlie

 

Chips are for eating ??!!

I'm new to cossies so be nice, but I don't understand how a
universal chip can work on any car,yes you mine have all the right bit but if one bit is wrong then the fueling can't be right?
It must just overfuel the car to be on the safe side??
aftermarket ECU is a must I think for the protection of an engine
I have a motec to go on mine at some point and it will be mapped for the spec of the car got to be the way .......

 

The after market ecu is the way to go in my opinion, and why I'm on a emerald K3.
A chip cannot in a month of sundays just plug in and be the best, or ultimate performing set up, it can be a lot better by because each engine is slightly different so the fuelling will be, owing to this the chips must be a bit "rained back", so as not to cause issues with running performance etc.
Imo there is no subsitute for a rolling road mapping, I always say it's 1% ecu and 99% mapper ability, if the ecu's can do the same job you won't see a difference, if ther eis any that would be down to the mapper.
The best mod I ever did was go aftermarket, I went emerald as I like the company, have huge respect for Dave Walker who maps them, and like my extra 140 miles per tank range from the new mapped ecu.
I also didn't want to be tied in to a antiquated ecu like the L6 I was on, where only a certain few people adjust/map them, be tied in to ever harder to get parts like sensors etc, or inflated cossie prices, some selling the 4wd TPS for prices nearly 3 times the price ducati charge for the 100% exact same sensor.
My tps went tits up whilst being mapped, no problem no hunting around, just buy one from DW for Ł20 put on less than 30 seconds on the ecu for set up job done all set up, to 100% perfection.
I think it is important to see who is in your area that you trust, what ecu they are comfortable with mapping wise and work from there.
I've seen numerous big name ecu's after big name mapping and the result compared with a decent ecu/decent mapping is the same despite the pricey ones costing up to 3 times the amount.
With my K3, you get ALL you need to access every part of the ecu programme, just put the disc in the lappy use the lead away you go.
Some shy away from mapping greys, if they do run a mile I say, my engine ran greys T34 and had 200,000 mile son it and flew through the mot with NOTHING done to the mapping to make it leaner, it read 0.97% CO, 137ppm, no wonder it passed without the usual crappy bodge of tweaking fuelling to pass then putting back to how it needs to be to drive nice.
Just my thoughts, I just like the company who designed their own ecu, make their own ecu, map their own ecu, and don't charge stupid prices promoting things that can get your car seized by the plod, but each to their own.
tabetha

 

whats that last bit mean tab? seized by the plod?

 

exactly my thoughts, but not everyone has the ability to map thier own stuff, wire it up etc

 

I personally don't see the point, once you have it setup the way you then it's done.

Aftermarket ECU is expensive and then you have the fitting and loom and someone to map it. I could only see a benefit if you are constantly 'tinkering' with MAP's etc, although given the hardware is going to be better spec as well! Personally I see the only advantage in live mapping is if you have an unusual spec etc, but for the run off the mill tune I really don't see the point, although of course it would be better.

I think he means promoting ALS/LC although they do say it is illegal on road though?

Martin

 

im in the middle of tuning my car, im eat, sleep, and drinking afrs, and settings lol, so ignor me i am very bias to the aftermarket ecu

 

I would love to switch from L6 to aftermarket now i,ve experienced one in a yb , for me its the driveability and reliability they can provide , smooth constant pulling power all the way, spot on idle control and the fact any future mods and upgrades can be easily remapped to suit . I sat in the back of tabs car 3 up and tbh i shit meself in 4th gear pull , was like night and day to my stg1 L6 , it just kept pulling all the way no fuss

 

Mine also starts and idles perfect with a 100% non working iscv even from cold, though if I wanted I could set the cold running on one of the three maps a bit richer if I did have a problem.
The boost control as opposite lock will tell you is light years ahead of the L6, he even asked me to rev the engine whilst we were sat in traffic as he didn't believe the engine was still running, my tacho is a bit hit and miss.
I like not being "bound" by harder to get cossie sensors as well, if say a CTS went duff I can use any from any car that I can make physically fit, then just use a kettle and ice and scale it in, all myself no dealer involved, scale it then ready to go again, no waiting for another part through post, hoping it won't be duff.
I can change my spec anytime, if it needs a remap it's Ł280 FOR ALL THREE maps, not each or Ł500 each.
I have the facility for closed loop, sensor etc is there all set up, I don't need it.
Driving from Watton in Norfolk via lincoln etc to Scarborough in 3 3/4 hrs and doing 40.8mpg has me convinced,(was 180 miles) I made the right choice.
The new K6 emerald has in built map, usb connection launch and traction, shame I don't have the newer K6 I hear you say ?, when out fully around x mas these two features are a FREE download/upgrade onto my K3, just add the wires and go.
tabetha

 

No aftermarket ECU is going to be as 'good' as a manufacturer produced item. They have a far greater budget to develop these things. Granted, our wiring car go wonky, but thats simply age, i doubt any loom is going to last 20 years of abuse lol.

Also the ECU really does mean ass all in the grand scheme of things if the mapping is shit!

 

Biggest load of bullshit I've heard to day, take a bow!!
tabetha

 

That maybe so with a brand new latest tech ecus but i bet my autronic sm4 ecu is a shit load better than the 20 odd year old one that came out of my saff lol and even more so when u are talking about going for big power drive ability and reliability

 

so what i was thinking is right then and they are all valid points you have put across...

you can run coil on plug so no titting about with plug caps
the electrics will be all new and modern or more modern than the o.e stuff
and providing there is someone local that can map stuff up properly then use what they are most familiar with


been looking at megasquirt stuff for a bit now...is it any good? i know its cheap but is it easy for a rolling road guy to map up...or how would you go about doing it yourself...i would like to have a go but i dont know if i would be jumping in to the unknown and then end up with a blown up yb and an expensive rebuild just because i didnt pay the 250ish pounds to get it setup by someone who knows what they are doing and wanted to have a go myself!

 

depends on how much time you have and how clever you are, MS will do everything all of the other ecus do and is very easy to tune, easier to tune than my currrent KMS ecu, which was a grand new! (i obviously never paid that for it!) but what you will find is that if the tuner doesnt sell the particular ecu you have chosen then they wont map it, MS is a very diy thing, YES you can damage stuff, YES you need to know what your doing, but the results are very rewarding if you do it yourself. You will need wideband lambda (Ł150) also, and prehaps use det cans ( i dont)

 

i bought my sm4 with coilpacks and loom were all 6 months old for 1k,a flippin bargain in my opinion ,cant wait to have it all set up

 

i bought a kms ecu with loom, and disc, for hundred quid! already had coil and cps on my engine, just needed wired up and mapped, all running and together now, in the process of tuning it, will take a few tanks of fuel and a couple of weeks to get perfect, but thats where all the fun is!

 

can anyone recommend a good ecu then that can be picked up for a good price second hand etc? will be a long term project so i have time to look and want to make the loom up and that myself...can get coilpacks ettc and things like that from the scrap yard...but just want to know whats a good system in the eyes of a mapper...tried and tested and info readily available...new to this so all info appreciated cheers

 

tried and tested, with loads of free information availible online, fixable if it goes wrong, and very user friendly to map, has to be megasquirt, ideal for the diy enthusiast. I would even consider building your own one from scratch, as you can gaurantee the build quality this way. If you are going to use another ecu and get a tuner to map it then prehaps MS is not for you.

 

How is it? Your saying an ECU knocked up in a shed is better than something the likes of Bosh/Siemens etc etc produce? Whatever you think

If you'd care to read my post, i didn't compare the Cosworth range of ECUs to aftermarket ECUs - Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups

Yes, the mapping is the most important bit, i don't really give a fuck what you think, you can have the best ECU in the world and a shit map - your car is going to drive shit, the ECU isn't going to save it.

Just because you have a wee band of arse licking followers on here doesn't mean you actually know what you are talking about.

The weber range is perfectly fine on 500+ BHP cars, there is no debating that.

 

I've been running my sapp. since 1995 on a std type ECU and the last approx 4 years on a L8 and car has almost done 330K km ... I've always used DIY chip (from stage 1 up to the Siemens setup run now) and they have performed perfect. Car has always had good power with good AFR and doing good km/l .. so I may be "old" but I dont see the need for a aftermarket ECU at this level og power/tuning as long as the "std" ECU performs just as well ... but that just me

 

On the other hand you can have a reasonable ecu with an ace map and it will run great after all people used carbs and distributors for years

 

In terms of the mapping I agree that it will never match the standard car in most cases, manufacturers spend millions of pounds mapping cars including pressure chambers and temperature chambers etc, you cant duplicate that in a day on a set of rollers no matter how good you are!

BUT thats said, for a trackday car, none of that really matters, and even for a road car, it doesnt really matter what it would do at -39 degrees C if you are never going to experience that anyway.

 

ok what sort of price is it best to spend on an ecu and also sort of going back on what i said at the start i am probably only ever gonna go t34 or t4 or whatever i get in the future different injectors and map sensor and exhaust etc...i am never gonna chase massive power i just want good reliable strong power...or am i best to just stick with a chip from whatever tuning company? also my car is a 2wd on just stage one i believe...so l6 is it? whats the difference with l6 l8...whatever and p8 etc...i dont really have a clue what variants and differenced there are i just see the chips for them on ebay!

 

Ok lets explain the ECU mearly manages the engine thats the hardware itself, this DOES not change, what you have will do the job just fine, what does change is the software (AKA remapping) this needs calibrating for your setup.

As for reliable power well theres no reason why it should be unraliable, never had a problem myself!

So to set you straight, the tuning is divided up into 'Stages'.

Yours is stage 1 which uses standard components with remapped ignition curves etc and the boost limit is raised to 15PSI this will see around 280HP but more importantly more torque as well.

Stage 2 is skipped due to the minimal cost difference between it and stage 3 and generally isn't talked about anymore.

So the next step is stage 3, this is a little more involved, it requires a change of injectors Bosch 803's Greens or the now preferred Siemens 55 LB (As the original injectors won't be able to flow enough fuel now). You will also require a 3 BAR MAP sensor due to the amount of boost now run as the standard 2 BAR item can't sense the extra boost.

Expect around 315 HP and obviously more torque as well.

You may already have a -31 actuator and some also uprate the intercooler.

To go any further then you need to uprate the turbo to a T34 "Hybrid turbo" as the standard T3 is now the limiting factor.


And finally you require a chip with a calibration for your EXACT spec, you can either buy off the shelf or go for whats called a live map which is expensive but better because as the name suggests the car is mapped live opposed to an off the shelf calibration designed for the masses, as every engine is different it will never be as good as a mapping session.


Most importantly it's vital the engine is in good health and has a decent HG and as with any Cosworth which should have already have been done is the fan and fuel pump circuits checked or rewired.


As to the different ECU's:

L1= 3 Door
L6= Saph
L8= 4x4 Saph
P8= Escos

Basically the L1 and L6 are very similar but have different electronics (No you can't interchange chips between the two), the L8 however is different, it has a baby board and also has double the memory of the two mentioned (128K instead of 64K)

You will only benefit from upgrading to L8 if you want such features as Anti Lag, Launch Control etc as the L1/6 are unable to do so.

The P8 again is an advancement of the L8.


Martin

 

that was very helpful martin...is anti lag and the launch control any good...does it function well without eating turbos or is it just good for scaring people when off boost?

mines l6 then...how would i know about the actuatur? are there any marknigs...it runs just over a bar of boost so stage one sounds about right standard intercoole and injectors are yellow i think just standard anyway...its got an exhaust thats it but it does pull very hard

 

MSD makes life 110% easier and cheaper

 

If you look carefully it should have marked on it -31.

TBH no just a gimmick imo re the anti lag, launch control of course it can be good if it's used for what it's designed for I.E on track, drag strip, also it's illegal to use on the road, money best spent elsewhere, also you are supposed to have a "Maram 247" shafted turbo otherwise the shafts can melt.

Yes standard injectors are yellow, 4x4=Blue

PS forgot to mention you will also require an uprated breather.

Martin

 

so there is only two stages then?

 

It's basically divided up into three main stages, stage 2 is not really spoke of much more as the hardware and cost difference was minimal between it and stage 3, obviously there is a lot further you can go beyond stage 3.

Also it varies massively as to what a tuner defines a 'Stage' for example MSD do a T3 package and a T34 package where as some define a stage 3 with a T34.

Martin

 

Ive never been one for all the "stage" hype, peoples cars and specs can differ soo much that a generic "stage" can not really cover it. It was ok maybe ten/fifteen years ago, when all people do was follow the crowd and chip things, but in this Era of aftermarket ecus, gt turbos and aray of aftermarket goodies i think the stage terminology has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Especially now your saying the third stage is actualy the second stage now lol.

 

Read my post again, as yours is pretty much agreeing with me, I don't arse lick and I don't like arse lickers, I'm the absolute opposite.
AS the post was VERY OBVIOUSLY comparing the std fit ecu's of 20 odd years old with aftermarket that is what I answered.
It's a forum and everybody is entitled to an opinion.
Just as an example over a chipped and set up msd chip on my L6, I picked up 140 miles PER TANK, I really would love to see a L6 match the driveability or emissions/mpg of a modern ecu correctly mapped as mine was.
I don't believe in on road mapping/set up but still recommend msd as they do a good job this way.
Getting 500+bhp is not even scratching the surface of what a decent mapping session does, I know certain "experts" who don't even do the cold fuelling on some cars just because they are track cars.
Remember the landing on the moon was done with less computer power than your average modern calculator, I wonder why ford changed ecu's a few times ?, the L1 was shit it did the job at the time when only sales and not mpg/emissions were key like they are now.
I don't know anyone who builds ecu's in the shed, I assume you do ?, if you wish to do it this way that's fine each to thier own and all that, personally I'm not a fan , so don't assume anything about me, it's the mother of all fuck ups, remember!
Some get results they are happy with with MS etc, I bought a ready made ecu that was designed by the same people who build it and the same people who map it, so they know it well.
A modern std car fit type ecu is much much more to do with emissions than power.
I don't care if people "follow me" I say as I see, take it or leave it, I have my opinion and everyone else has theirs personally I think chip writes some wrong stuff, that didn't stop me helping him where I could with his brake caliper identification, don't take it so personally I don't.
tabetha

 

why not? your car is driven on the road not a rolling road, therefore the best place to map it is on the road. In my opinion, that im entitled to of course. You may make more BHP tuning on the rollers but drivability will be better tuning on the road IMO, A bit of both is always good i find.

 

getting low emmisions isnt really that hard,

i could get a L6 to idle at less than 1.00% co on greys in less than 5 mins.

 

my saff is 1.20% co, under 200 ppm hydrocarbons and lambda 1, it took less than 29 seconds lol, 1.9 ms injector duty cycle and 10 deg ig timing @850rpm. In my shed

 

Have to agree with that Tabetha is like myself in that he genuinely wants to help people and even if someone is arguing and disagreeing with him in one thread he will still go out of his way to help that person in another thread, just like I would too.


He helped me out massively with my brakes despite the fact that we dont see eye to eye on emerald and have had a few rows about it on here.
But even then we dont disagree totally, we both think Dave walker is a brilliant mapper and we both think the product works well, the difference is that I fucking HATE the shite mapping interface and tabetha doesnt.

 

go for omex 600 - will work out chepaer than an L6 or L8 with all all LC/ALS/Closed loop added

 

^ thats the sort of info i am after...omex does seem to be pretty widely recognised and used i think...any more info on what people think i should look out for...or what are the main ones that a lot of people are familiar with on rolling roads and also that i could understand and maybe do a bit of mapping myself?

cheers