knight7660

hi people im going to turn my 3 door into 4x4 am i right to belive i can use the running gear out of a xr4x4 or am i totaly wrong?

wonce its all modded to fit in il upgrade the box ect

also are the boxxes the same for the cossies and the xr's.

im new so go easy if i sound silly

AndyPen

iTrader: (24)

There's a guy on here (called Dan) who did just that. There are discussions here on the space needed for the front shafts etc. if you search around.

You around Dan mate???

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

The XR box is different from a cossie box, so you can't use that. V6 Rear end is the same as a 4x4 cossie as far as i'm aware. Diffs are the same if they are v6, 2.0Lxr uses 3.9 ratios instead of the cossie/v6 3.62.

Glenn_

iTrader: (1)

you will have to modify the front chassis legs where the inner wings are cause the drive shafts will catch. You will also need a 4x4 cossie sump. Arnt the gear box mounts on the floor different too. Im sure ive read somewhere that they are.

turbostarkie

Are these not completely the same gearboxs with diffrent ratios

SillyFezzaMk1

iTrader: (1)

You mean me dude?


Knight7660 its not an easy conversion, you'll need to also look and see if you have a 200 block (all 4x4 cossie engines had 200 blocks) before you start. If you have a 200 block engine i'll do you a post listing what needs doing.

Cheers
Dan

alfaracer

Hi I have just gone he other way. converted my 4x4 3door back to 2wd.Steve at A1rallysport has all the parts.give him a call. Mike

anglia105e hinson

you don't need a 200 block , i've got a 205 block with a 4x4 head with full 4x4 running gear, its an easy conversion mate. don't even need to cut the big arches out in the chassis rail just the little lip off.

SillyFezzaMk1

iTrader: (1)

wrong x3....you can do these things but IMO its the pikey way of doing it.

AndyPen

iTrader: (24)

Yup you da man I mean Dan

graham c

iTrader: (5)

why do you need a 4x4 engine ? just need the sump and mybe the pick up pipe or is it 4 the front diff mounts ?

SillyFezzaMk1

iTrader: (1)

firstly you need a 200 block as the front diff mounts to the sump and puts added stress through the block in certain areas meaning its not a good idea to use a 205 block.

Secondly the geometry of the front chassis legs/strut tops etc... is same on 2wd and 4x4 sierras.....so if ford thought they could get away with knicking the edge of the chassis leg why would they have half mooned it?? It's because if you hit full compression on your shock or you break a spring the shaft will hit the chassis leg possibly causing damage.

Knight7660, you have a lot of useable parts on the xr4x4, there are quite a few subtle differences between gen cossie 4x4 stuff and xr4x4 stuff but majority will fit....the 2.8 xr4x4 yeilds less parts than the 2.9 or the 2.0 versions.

Here's a list of bits you can use, bits you can't and why...

Diffs....the 2.8 diffs are same ratio as cossie IIRC but the front diff housing is slightly different (minutely around seal area meaning it will fit but leak ) but as far as I remember the rear diff is good to use....so to complete the diffs you'll need to check the 2.8 rear diff ratio and get a cossie 4x4 front diff or a 2.9xr4x4 front diff.

Gearbox....The 2.8 version of the mtx5 is essentially the same box as a cossie 4x4 box but has a different bell housing cast into the casing so unfortunately not useable (good for spares though so don't throw away...internals are very similar, vc is same etc..) the box to use in this conversion would be a 2.0 dohc xr4x4 box (you need to change the clutch fork and pin..both are available from ford still or I have a few knocking about if you need)...the 2.0 dohc box can be gotten for £50 ish on ebay and will not have had more than 130bhp put though it wheras cossie boxes cost £150+ and have had hard lives so I recommend the 2.0 dohc xr4x4 box. You'll need to make up a gearbox mount as there's not a ford one that'll fit the conversion you're doing.

The 2wd rear end of your car can be left as is, no need to change anything as the difference in ratios is 0.02 IIRC and changing to the xr rear end would be a downgrade in strength (smaller diff, shafts etc..) plus the arb pickups are different so it means welding.....if your 3dr is not a cossie then please describe the rear beam setup in it atm and i'll see what you need to change.

Front suspension/drive....The front x-member and susupension/arb will all bolt up fine and work ok, the only issues I can invisage are that the xr4x4 racks don't have a lock limiter like cossies do to limit steering angle....so if you use certain offset wheels you may get them scrubbing on the chassis legs (you can use a cossie rack no problems theyre dimensionally the same), you also might have to experiment with which steering linkage to use as I have not done the conversion into a 3dr.
The front hubs are the same bar the caliper mounting lugs again...you can use the xr4x4 front brakes, swap the hubs to cossie ones or have some sort of mounting brackets made up (ideal if your going to have big brakes). both xr props are useable, as are front shafts.

Mods to shell....Right so we've already established you need to cut out half moon shapes in the front chassis legs (listen to others saying its not needed at your peril) next you need to give the gearbox tunnel some more room for the bigger box...you can do this either by hammering the tunnel or welding in a clearance section of the xr's tunnel (bulge on drivers side front of tunnel).

Think thats all but I'm sure to have missed something....can anyone else confirm??

Cheers
Dan

SillyFezzaMk1

iTrader: (1)

The front diff is mounted to the sump so all the stress goes through the sump/block, hence the requirement for a 200 block which ford strengthened in the areas needed....if you use a 205 block it will all fit up fine but you run the risk of damaging your block as its not ideal.

Cheers
Dan

BRAMMER

iTrader: (23)

I don't understand why people convert to 4x4, for me it would completely ruin what the car is all about and devalue it like hell.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

there was no difference in the 4wd blocks for the 2.8/9 and 2.0 cars so why the need for this on the cossie blocks?
not knocking, just want to know why you can't use the 205 block

lots of people will disagree here, but if you feel the need to be safe they chop the half moons out of the front chassis rails

you need the 2.0 to give you the best range of usable items

i'll amend wher ei think it's different

you can't use the 2.8 front diff, it won't fit the cossie sump, end of discussion as the fitment into the sump is wrong for the cossie
the 2.0 and 2.9 diffs bolt in with not problems at all

you can't use the 2.8 box as it's a type 9
but the 2.0 box bolts directly on, you can use the gearbox mount as well and the rear prop and front prop

agree'd

you can use the crossmember and engine mounts and steering rack and tca's and intermidiate steering shaft from the 2.0 car and everythign will bolt on
you WILL need a 4wd cossie arb, and hubs and shafts to go along with it as they are a lot different to the xr versions (they have 4mm more offset for starters so the wheels sit that much further into the arches which explains why you need hsorter driveshafts as well)

or use a scissor jack to open it out, you may be luck and have the wider tunnel, it only needs to be wider for the front prop to go through where the clutch pedal bit of the tunnel sits



you are still left requiring the sump from a cossie don't forget

also, the struts and front springs will need to be cossie items as the xr stuff is designed to the weiht of the V6 (and the struts are longer on the 2.0 version, but you can use them for the fitment until you locate a proepr set)

SillyFezzaMk1

iTrader: (1)

dojj he as a 2.8 car as a donor and I dont think you read what i've put properly :S in some places....hope the guy gets the measure of what we're saying anyhow.

Dan

dojj

iTrader: (3)

not seen that bit, but if he has, he needs to get shot of it while he can and get himself a dohc 4wd sierra of any sort (other than the estate because the rear suspensions isn't what you want) and he should be able to get most of the running gear from that

if he buys himself a 2.9 he can get the diffs and seeing as the diffs on their own can cost me than a full car, it's worth the expense, he can even weigh the remainder in to make his money back

anglia105e hinson

look mate i was launching my 4x4 3 door all over the place chucking it round corners and NOT once has the driveshaft hit the chassis rail and it is lowered 35mm on the front. so it ai'nt a pikey way of doin it, i just saved cutting things i didin't need to!

SillyFezzaMk1

iTrader: (1)

like I said most people never experience full compression on a shock....If its lowered 35mm then you presumably have stiffer springs? Which would explain why you havent hit the chassis legs.

I also said IMO its a pikey way of doing it as Ideally if done properly you'd remove the half moon....EXACTLY LIKE FORD DID FFS

Dan

dojj

iTrader: (3)

if he was lauching it, then the shafts would be going away from the chassis rails not towards them

graham c

iTrader: (5)

braking and cornering hard it mite catch

anglia105e hinson

well i mite be lucky but i did give it a hard time when drivin it to start with to see if it would hit but it neva did, good luck which eva way you go about it fella

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

I have a rare Ford alloy gearbox crossmember here which fits the MT75 4x4 box into the narrow 3dr tunnel - a normal 3dr one or saff 4x4 one is no good, people usually swap tunnels or fabricate a crossmember, this one allows the original tunnel to remain, you just need to cut out a small section of tunnel to allow the transfer chain case to fit. Let me know if your interested in it.