Norwegian Wolf

I have grey injectors on my car, with a T35 ar0.63, -34 act, 400jenspeed chip and L6 ecu, low cr pistons, balanced bottom end, 200 block,
rs500 ic, plenumspacer, ported head with remachined cams and solid lifters..
Now i run 2,1 BAR of boost fully adjusted with wideband lambda to high 11 AFR all the way with 3,1 BAR of fuel pressure.

Have print outs for the last rolling road, with another ecu and chip, and ran lower boost about 1,6 BAR and a bad AFR curve.
For about 410HP at the flywheel, and over 350HP at the rear wheels.
And several upgrades have been done after that..

And i was wondering how much HP, 403 greys could deliver fuel to?
I know it's the turbo who is stopping more HP for me, but i was just wondering how much HP the greys could cope with, if i were using a bigger turbo.

I have planned a session on the rolling road when the spring comes, to find out how much it pushes out now
The engine have gone about 9000miles after it was built.

Sorry about the bad english, hope you understand what i'm talking about

tabetha

I am sure 500 will be possible on greys.
tabetha

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

No way...........

430-440 max imo...

I was running my Greys@ 430, i've now upgraded to 1000cc ones @ 442bhp, but i'm going to be going GT30 in the new year..

rapidcossie

450 tops I think mate...

Norwegian Wolf

So if i change to a bigger turbo, it would be possible to gain a fair amount of HP without changing the injectors?
The rest of the engine should handle more than 400HP quite nicely i think, so does the guys who built the engine..

The fuelpressure is quite low i recon, 3,1 BAR without vacuum.
And it still delivers fuel perfectly to 2,1 BAR of boost..

So i think they should be able to give more fuel with higher fuelpressure.

How much fuelpressure did you guys ran on greys, at how much HP..?

the saint

iTrader: (1)

dont play with fuel pressure mate 3.1 sounds fine from what i cant remember

Norwegian Wolf

No, of course not
Had been fully mapped with broadband lambda over the hole rev range.
The hole 3. and 4. gear on full boost, and also normal driving to get a clue on how it would be at normal driving.

Belive me, i wouldn't risk anything with this engine.
For every change that could have an effect to the afr, the car is ran with broadband lambda


What i ment was that the injectors must be far away from full dutycycle at 3,1 BAR? So getting more HP out of them should be possible?

col cos1

iTrader: (5)

no way youd get 500bhp running greys ,my car is not much over 400bhp on brand new greys and they max out at 7000rpm,and runs lean

got a set of 83lb siemens sorted now though

Norwegian Wolf

How much fuel pressure are you running?
How lean did it go then? AFR?

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

Agree 100% Col..




Mr Wolf,

Why not just buy some new injectors??

orion turbo

a mate of mine is running near 500bhp on his greys with a hybrid t4 bd14s 500 cooler group a head and lightend and balanced low comp 200 block

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

Won't he need a new chip too pete ?

col cos1

iTrader: (5)

yeah well lets just say some rolling roads have got big noses

that spec youve mentioned is the same as mine except my heads not group a spec



my car has shown 446bhp on a dastek r/r at 25psi

where as it made 373bhp @ wheels at 30 psi on ava r/r

and i tend to take ava`s results as accurate rather than the dastek 1 and shout about having 500bhp ,only to get shut down by an m5/supra etc

col cos1

iTrader: (5)

not sure how lean it went but standard pressure setting im sure

my car limits at 7500rpm so to be leaning at 7000rpm,they are no good to me

orion turbo

he got them results on ea's rolling road

at 30psi thru his externaly gated hybrid t4

group a heads do add a big ol chunk of power and torque

rapidcossie

you have to add the fuel to match the air tho mate...

col cos1

iTrader: (5)

we`l soon see as ive got 1 in the making

but im calling it a group -x

tabetha

But it is the same old problem, is it for road use or track use ?
If it is for track use batch fire it for twice the fuel delivery!!
tabetha

Norwegian Wolf

staffi: Because it's not the injectors that run empty, it's the turbo.
Ran flat out with 2,1 BAR = 30psi, with no problems at all.
With high 11 AFR all the way.

I'm not planning to change the set up on the car for a while, but i was just wondering how much further i could go with an other turbo,
before i have to change injectors

KSA-Cossie: The chip is no problem if i'm going further with a bigger turbo etc. because i know a very good person here in Norway who makes custommade chips for Cosworth's
And he is cheap too, ca 80£ for a custommade chip, perfect for the set up.


tabetha: It's for road use, but i'm going to take it to track a couple of times next summer. But mainy it's for road use

Staffi

iTrader: (1)

You don't half contredict yourself..

In the answers above, you answered me back saying you're NOT changing the setup of the car turbo etc..


Then you answer KEV saying the chip is NO problem if im going with a bigger turbo..

Your original question.

WHAT MAX BHP ON GREYS.... i've said around 440..if you change your turbo and go above this power ,YOU'LL need better injectors.....

Norwegian Wolf

I don't have plans of changing the turbo etc. until maybe next year.
I didn't say i'm NOT gonna do it

But for now i'm very pleased with the setup, and will use it the oncoming summer.
But after that, i might consider upgrading the engine with a bigger turbo, new chip etc.
So i was wondering how far the greys will co-operate.
So i can have in mind if i have to change them out with som black siemens or something like that if i'm going any further on the setup of the car

And here in Norway the limit of the grey isn't very tried out, because almost everybody use bigger injectors than grey if they go past greens..

cossie604

iTrader: (2)

I think nowaday's people tend to skip greys and go straight to a larger siemens style injector.....bit like how people skipped using the old 355 light green's and just went from yellows to 803's insted. Im on greys for running in but dont expect to see any more than safe 430bhp out of my hybrided T4 spec tbh with them fitted.

orion turbo

4 greys with fuel pressure regulator and a 044 fuel pump seem to of done the job

he now runs 8 greens hasnt had it set up yet

foreigneRS

that old chestnut again

if the injectors are at max duty cycle, how are you going to open them for twice as long?

HBS

With batch firing you get to inject fuel twice per induction stroke and not just when the valves are open.
The fuel that is injected at the closed valves, just stays in the port, until the valves open.
Proven method, nothing dodgy about that.

Nash

iTrader: (3)

Says it all imo.

Ahmed says 430bhp max on greys on a proper set of rollers.

foreigneRS

i totally understand that - but if you are running injectors that are running at >80% duty cycle over the entire 4 stroke cycle when fired sequentially, you won't be able to do it twice

BMEP

HBS,

I don't think foreigneRS is saying that Batch fire is a bad thing Batch fire doesn't inject the fuel "twice per induction stroke" however injects the fuel twice per 720 Deg (complete engine cycle), normally once at TDC Exh and once at TDC Compression stroke. Sequential injection however is only injected once per 720 Deg cycle. So if a "total" of 10ms of fuel was to be injected, Batch would give you two injection points 360 Deg apart of 5ms where as sequential would be one complete injection point of 10ms.