hog

hi
just having a few probs getting my rebuilt standard cossie engine to run right , fires up ok but wont idle and it seems to be running rich (black smoke) i have checked and cleaned idle control valve and is ok ,i have 3.5 bar pressure at the rail , what is the next thing i should be checking or changing ??
cheers

mark taylor

CHECK COOLANT TEMP SENSOR IS CONNECTED ALSO CHECK MAP SENSOR WIRING AND VACUM PIPE .CHEERS MARK

hog

cheers for that mark i will check through and see if that sorts it out
ant found out water temp sen not connected and when connected it will not start full stop will run without it but cut out as soon as it s connected
!!

radiant red

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...asc&highlight=

this was me in your position the other day mate

hog

hi
i want to double check the wiring to my map sensor and tps sensor to make sure plugs have not been mixed up ,anybody know what colours should be a which sensor ??? then i am waiting on a new temp sensor to try and struggling to find a 2bar map to try in place of the old one ,so if anybody has one available pm me
cheers ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

the map sensor wiring should be 3-core with braided shield - TPS wiring is 3 separate wires

as stated above, sounds like either water temp sensor, or map sensor

if you have run the engine for a good few minutes in this condition, check the oil - it'll probably be piss thin from all the fuel in it, and worth changing

hog

cheers for that the wiring is correct and i tried a new water temp sensor today and made no change , so i ll wait till i get another map sensor hopefully that will be it , then change the oil
ant

hog

hi
i now have the engine running ok after fitting another map sensor , but it will only run if the water temp sensor plug is not connected puffs a bit of black smoke out still a bit rich i guess , but every time i connect the sensor it cuts out it is a brand new sensor , so could it just be a duff one or should i be lookin else where to sort the problem??
cheers for any ideas
ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

Could be a duff sensor, or the wiring to the sensor.

Coolant Temp Sensor Checking - info courtesy of Simon @ SECS
1) Ensure ignition is OFF.
2) Remove rear of ecu plug cover and insert plug back into ecu.
3) Turn ignition back on (do not start engine)
4) Check resistance between pins 29 and 11. Should be 800 to 5000 ohms (depends on temp). If outside this range, check sensor and/or wiring.

hog

hi
hmmm still strugglin trying to get the water temp sensor plug connected with out the engine cutting out , my 12v tester will not measure ohms, so i have tryed 2 other sensors and still gives the same problem , i belled out the cores and they seem to be intact to pins 29 and 11 , allso noted that pin 11 is linked to the tps and cats sensors ,even with no other sensors connected bar the water temp it still stops the fuel pump from priming before start up normally 2 to 3 secs without water temp connected with it .5 secs ! so any other ideas are welcome
cheers ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

check your cam timing - you may have a cam one tooth out

hog

hi jon
have rechecked timing and all seems spot on , not sure what else i can do now ??
ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

you're deffo setting the timing right using the lug NOT the V groove on the crank pulley ?

hog

hi jon
yea i used the pics posted on here a bit back for referance , set just to the outside edge of the lug ,and both pullys with pointers level with dizi lined up to the mark , i cant even start the car with temp sensor connected so im thinking it is somthing electrical but have no idea what ?
cheers ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

TPS Checks
1) Ensure ignition is OFF.
2) Remove rear of ECU plug cover and insert plug back into ECU.
3) Turn ignition back on (do not start engine)
4) THROTTLE CLOSED:
4x4: Check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.
2WD: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
5) THROTTLE FULLY OPEN:
4x4: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
2WD: check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.

hog

hi jon
closed throttle 4.38
open throttle 0.73

off my spare tps fitted on loose
closed 4.78
open 0.06

ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

TPS and wiring OK then

Was the engine running in the car OK before the rebuild ? Have you changed the ECU or loom at all ? You are running a L1 or L6 ECU aren't you ? ie not a L8 or P8

hog

hi
engine/box/loom and ecu were bought from a written off 2wd , after getting engine checked over was advised to have bottom end rebuilt , i belive the ecu is the L6 with the white mixture screw , the engine bay loom i got all looks in order with no mods done to it still in original wrapping/taping

ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

Do the injectors and MAP sensor match the chip ? Have you looked inside the ECU to check that the chip is the one you were expecting it to be (ie that it wasn't changed by the previous owner) ?

What car have you fitted the engine/ECU/loom to ? Are you sure the wiring is OK in the car (no dodgy ECU voltage issues) ?

hog

hi jon
it came with yellows/2bar map sensor and i had a look inside the ecu at the chip , numbers stamped on it 88741s , m2764a-4f6 , pgm 12.5v then a small sticker on it says 45, L2o , 67 looks like the standard one , and on the ecu cover it has w45.06/L20-67 (now not sure if it is an L6 ecu ?) the engine is now in a kitcar and i have wired up the bay loom as ,

Red-Blue wire to Battery Feed
Green wire to Tacho
Black-Red wire to Fuel Pump
Black wire to Ignition Switch
Brown-White Wire to Temp Gauge

i have double checked the wiring and all appears in order , how do i check for dodgy ecu voltages ?it gets over 12.5 volts from batt supply and ignition switch, i did check for voltage at water temp sensor plug and it read 4.5 volts not sure if this is correct , any more things i can try feel free to let me know
cheers ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

what are the part numbers on the MAP sensors you've tried ? (APSxx/xx)

hog

hi jon
aps02/03
1949

and
aps02/03
0650

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

fair enough

wiring seems correct, as do MAP sensors

have you pulled all the rubber boots back to make sure all the connections look OK, and removed the hairbrush to make sure that looks OK ?

hog

will check behind rubber boots tomorrow , and the hairbrush (what is this??)
ant

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

ECU connector

hog

have checked behind rubber boots on water temp sen and cats nothing out of place ,checked other plugs allso , checked ecu plug all wires in place, so i can only think of gettin hold of another ecu to try or gettin an auto electrician ?
ant

radiant red

are you getting enough vacuum mate?


i have a very similer prob to you at the mo maybe you could try another ecu on??

hog

not to sure about that , i guess i would need to get a vac gauge or something like to check it with , i still cant get past the turning on the igniton stage without starting engine for it to happen each time the water temp sen is connected it wont start with out it does have tried connecting one core of water temp wire at a time the pin 11 cable is ok its when the pin29 cable is connected it kills it , so i ll have to try and get hold of a similar ecu to try and see if that makes any change , anybody got one forsale ??

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

did you ever hear the engine running ?

has anyone messed about with the CO adjustment screw on the ECU ?

where are you ?

hog

jon
i never saw engine running as it was already stripped from donor car when i got it , we did adjust co screw 2 turns up and then down due to it running so rich then realised the water temp sen was not connected up ,then that is how i realsed this fault , im based in stockport /mcr
ant

radiant red

well my idle is now sorted mate,my turbo is leaking oil onto the lambda sensor,once cleaned all is well just need turbo building now


hows yours going mate

hog

nothing more to report yet im gonna see if i can get my ecu checked by collins just waitin for a reply to see if they can do that or not , if not then i will get hold of another ecu and try that, i cant be that far off from sortin it as i feel like ive checked most things out so far , so ill let you know what happens
ant

hog

update time
ecu checked out by collins all ok no faults found with it , so feel free to offer any other things that it could be ??
cheers

jon@work

iTrader: (5)

so the ECU is OK

the chip you've got is "adequate" and matches the map sensor and injectors

that leaves the wiring loom, or sensors, or sensor gaps, or a mechanical issue

you're happy that the cam timing and dizzy timing are correct, and that the crank sensor and phase sensor gaps are OK (0.6-1.0 and 0.2-0.3mm respectively IIRC)

the map sensor (and its wiring) was checked (by replacement), the TPS seems OK, the water temp sensor was checked (by replacement), the fuel pressure has been checked (with the vacuum pipe disconnected and plugged)

check the temp sensor wiring - pull back the boot and give the wires a good tug - you may have continuity, but still have a duff wire

have you done a compression test ? a bent valve or 2 may cause the same syptoms (foot on the accelerator peddle, count to 5 with HT lead disconnected) Watch the speed that the compression gauge increases to max - if a bit jerky, pull the head off and get the valves replaced, if compressions not roughly equal between pots, again get the head off.


below is the complete guide, from which I've posted a couple of what I thought were relevant items above

BASIC FAULT FINDING GUIDE FOR COSSIE ECUS by Simon @ SECS

NOTE: Some of these results can be affected by an alarm system or immobilizer. I have assumed the car has a 2.5 bar/3.0 bar map sensor.
If SECS monitor is fitted, unplug it! (A faulty monitor or incorrectly fitted can cause engine not to run)

1) Ensure ignition is OFF.
2) Remove rear of ecu plug cover and insert plug back into ecu.
3) Turn ignition back on (do not start engine)
4) MAIN POWER CHECK: Check for DC voltage of at least 11.5V between ecu pins 19 and 20.
5) REFERENCE CHECK: Check for DC voltage of around 4.8 to 5.2V between pins 11 and 30.
6) MAP SENSOR CHECK: Check for DC voltage of approx 1.8 to 2.5V between pins 11 and 15.
7) THROTTLE CLOSED:
4x4: Check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.
2WD: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
8) THROTTLE FULLY OPEN:
4x4: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
2WD: check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.
9) Turn ignition off, unplug ecu, and turn ignition back on (don’t forget immobilizer if fitted)
10) CRANK SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 3 and 4 between 300 and 1200 ohms.
11) CRANK SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 3 and 4 while cranking engine - should be at
least 2V.
11) PHASE SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 5 and 23 between 300 and 1200 ohms.
12) PHASE SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 5 and 23 while cranking engine - should be at
least 1.5 - 2V.
12) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 18 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
13) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 35 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
14) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 33 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
15) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 32 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
NOTE: INJECTOR TESTS MAY NEED MAIN RELAY ENERGISED ON L1 and L6 ecus (link pins 1 and 10 first)
16) IGNITION TRIGGER: Read voltage between pins 24 and 25, should be at least 4.5V.
17) IGNITION TEST: BEWARE DANGEROUS VOLTAGES ON PLUG/COIL LEADS.
Quickly link pins 24 and 25 on and off this will FIRE the ignition coil. Rotate dizzy by moving car in gear to point rotor arm at one plug lead and remove spark plug (earthing it on chassis or engine) to see spark. Try for each plug in turn. Or remove king lead at dizzy and place end within 1 centimetre of earth to see a big spark.
18) Place a temporary wire link from pin 1 to pin 10 (energises ecu power relay) - you should hear a click.
19) Quickly link pins 19 to 28 to test fuel pump runs.
20) COOLANT TEMP: Check resistance pins 29 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp)
21) CHARGE TEMP: Check resistance pins 31 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp)

Unplug the ecu and turn the ignition on. If the fuel pump runs the relay has been wired to run permanently or the relay is jammed.
However, if the pump is running continuously, this WILL NOT stop the car from starting.

Some chips don’t drive the fuel pump relay output properly as this is used for other features like ALS etc.... (PECTEL/AHMED chips mainly). In these situations, the pump is rewired to run continuously.

If however, the pump is wired correctly and working properly, if it runs continuously when the ecu is plugged in only, then the ECU and/or chip may have failed.

The pump is ok to run continuously

hog

good stuff jon i ll get together the bits i need and start checking at weekend, i guess i ll need to getanother volt tester that measures ohms , ill see how it goes
cheers ant

hog

hi jon
story so far
1) Ensure ignition is OFF.
2) Remove rear of ecu plug cover and insert plug back into ecu.
3) Turn ignition back on (do not start engine)

4) MAIN POWER CHECK: Check for DC voltage of at least 11.5V between ecu pins 19 and 20. = 13.17VOLT DC

5) REFERENCE CHECK: Check for DC voltage of around 4.8 to 5.2V between pins 11 and 30. = 4.95VOLT DC

6) MAP SENSOR CHECK: Check for DC voltage of approx 1.8 to 2.5V between pins 11 and 15. = 2.14VOLT DC

7) THROTTLE CLOSED:

2WD: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17. = 4.78VOLT DC

8) THROTTLE FULLY OPEN:

2WD: check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17. = 0.6 VOLT DC

9) Turn ignition off, unplug ecu, and turn ignition back on (don’t forget immobilizer if fitted)

10) CRANK SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 3 and 4 between 300 and 1200 ohms. = 667 OHM S

11) CRANK SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 3 and 4 while cranking engine - should be at
least 2V. = 0.02 VOLT AC (MAY HAVE A PROBLEM HERE?)

11) PHASE SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 5 and 23 between 300 and 1200 ohms. = 778 OHM S

12) PHASE SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 5 and 23 while cranking engine - should be at
least 1.5 - 2V. = 0.4 VOLT AC ( COULD HAVE PROBLEM HERE ?)

12) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 18 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms. = 3.2 OHM
13) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 35 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms. = 3.2 OHM
14) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 33 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms. = 3.2 OHM
15) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 32 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms. = 3.2 OHM
NOTE: INJECTOR TESTS MAY NEED MAIN RELAY ENERGISED ON L1 and L6 ecus (link pins 1 and 10 first)
16) IGNITION TRIGGER: Read voltage between pins 24 and 25, should be at least 4.5V. = 0.2 VOLTS DC ( PROBLEM ??) unless you mean measure when i try and start the car ? this is measured when ignition is turned on?




18) Place a temporary wire link from pin 1 to pin 10 (energises ecu power relay) - you should hear a click. (NO CLICK HEARD)

19) Quickly link pins 19 to 28 to test fuel pump runs. (TESTED OK)

20) COOLANT TEMP: Check resistance pins 29 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp) = 880 OHM S

21) CHARGE TEMP: Check resistance pins 31 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp) = 886 OHMS

looks like all is not as it should be with number 11 , 12 , 16 ,and 18 ??
tdc gap and phase gap , and test 17 will be tested tommorrow plus comp test as long as it turns up . so ill get these done
cheers ant