Can anyone please help with ideas to what our problem is with a 1988 Granada 2.9 injection scorpio , We have bought the car and when driving every now and then it goes as if its starved of fuel for few seconds or so then judders but then picks back up on its own , Or if when it does this i put foot my down more it clears and goes back to normal but it keeps happening all the time . Even when start off it does it and then starts to judder but soon as i stick my foot down and give it more it goes but then comes back just as quick if i slow up etc or just cruise at any speed but if i dont put my foot down to overcome it then it will judder like hell. Ive Changed throttle position sensor off another car plus its had new fuel filter and changed the fuel pressure regulator and its also had new set of plug leads plus coil . Ive also Tried looking and unplugging all conections i can find then plugging them back plus took fuses all out checked and cleaned and there is no cat so its not that either, Also took dash all out to get at fuel relays etc under dash top and swapped them around and so on but still same , got new fuel pump on order so will also try that once it arrives . Anyone had same problem or got Any idea please ?

 

I had one of these in the late 90's

Have you checked the resistance on the air mass / flow meters, there are two.

 

no sorry ive no idea how do i do that

 

remove the air flow meters (passenger side behind the headlight)

you will see that they have flaps in them to measure the air flow

push the flaps with a finger and see if there is any resistance when you push them or when they return back to their stops

this is a very common fault and i'm pretty sure that if you were to look out the rear window you'd see a puff of black smoke as it's then running rich

 

so you unclip the air filter cover, then the 2 multiplugs (they are wired differently so you should rememeber which one goes where) and then undo the 2 big jubilee clips and its out

 

what would i do then clean them or replace ?

 

Ideally you would need to measure the resistance in ohms as you move the flap through from closed to open.

As there are two it should be easy to work out which one is duff. Of course they both might be knackered or both might be ok. A difference between the two will show one is duff but which one I don't know.

Someone might know what the specification (resistance) is for these.

Also, shamless plug here but I'm flogging these ...

 

they would need replacing as you can't really fix them

 

Take a look at ebay item 261412998983 is that the things your saying about ? I was going to upload a pictures but im new here and dont know how sorry . Anyway there are 2 of these on the granada like you say passengers side however i have another granada just a few years newer and same engine etc yet it dont have these on it

 

one has catalytic converters and the older ones doesn't

they use a different measuring system for the air pressure but i cna't rememeber off the top of my head what that would be called, it my be a map sensors or the like or hot wire sensor or something

simples

 

that's a lot of money for 1 afm, plus it's from the 2.8 which may not make it suitable for the 2.9 application

i know the 2.0 pinto ones don't fit either

 

yeah see what your saying but it looks same as the ones on mine and mine is the none cat , had new fuel pump today and still no joy its still same

 

ask this guy

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-SIERR...item3a8b2fd3a1

 

where as this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Grana...item3a8ca2474c

is the cat engine, as can be seen by the inlet pipes being different

 

I preferred the Rover P6 you had in Lock Stock.

 

and here's another one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-SIERR...item3a8b3ce0a9

 

yes the first 1 you show there are the same as mine and the others are the same as the other granada i have

 

new fuel pump now fitted to rule that out and its still the same

 

Any air leaks on the intake? intake rubber piping from air flow meters to throttle body, inlet manifold gaskets/valley gaskets.

Is it just a HT misfire? spark plugs/leads/cap/rotor..

 

Hi GVK like your comment on the rover lol and i did have 3 of them , The scorpio as now had a throttle position sensor , fuel filter , fuel pressure regulator , fuel pump , plugs , leads , cap , coil , cleaned everything else i can think of and ive checked pipes but cant seem to find anything . Im now thinking do i strip inlet manifold etc and put new gasket to rules things like that out or would it be those air box meters even though them seem ok or will it be a injector . Im just getting nowhere and starting to run out of things to try

 

just dont understand that its fine and problem goes if give more throttle but once easy back off it comes back

 

How does it idle, smooth or 'hunts' ?? if the idle is poor it may point to an intake gasket fault, it's years since I worked on the old V6s but did replace a few of the intake manifold and the 'valley' gaskets back in the day. Should be able to spray some WD40 or similar around the intake manifold flanges and see if engine note changes.

On more modern stuff you can disconnect the air flow meters so it just runs on TPS settings to prove a bad air-flow meter, not sure if the older ECUs support that..worth a try to rule it out, if it's even more terrible then we know..

 

it idles great no problem at all

 

If i disconnect the air flow meters 1 at a time the engine note does change or idle lowers etc and if i disconnect both the engine cuts out and wont run

 

That answers that then..

What happens if you disconnect the TPS, does it still run?

 

tps being the throttle position sensor ? I cant remember now until i try again but yes i think it did still run will try it again tomorrow to see

 

Yes TPS throttle position sensor.

Must be some proper tests you can do on the AFMs..

I will look..

 

disconnected the TPS and it will still start and run , also done full compression test and good on all 6

 

Well ive gone full out so the granada has now had Brand New plugs, New leads, New dizzy cap, New coil, New fuel filter, New fuel pump plus ive swapped things like fuel pressure regulator , fuel relay, and things like throttle sensor etc and still doing the same. Ive got old code reader now so will try look at it tomorrow and see if it comes up with anything

 

But youve still not changed the air flow meters which is the cause of the problem?

 

Well I'm now more stumped than ever because I've now got a code reader for the granada but I've tried tests and its coming up with nothing , I've even done a wiggly test and nothing plus its not air flow meters as I've also ruled them out because no codes come up however if I unplug a air meter or anything then it shows a code saying problem with them etc so I really don't know now what else I can do

 

the granada won't have any fault codes readable by the vast majority of fault code readers

you plug a light into the 3 pin diagnostic plug by the battery and it'll flash some sequence of lights to give you very basic info

and it won't be on the afm's as they won't read as a fault

remove the afm's and do the poke test i told you about earlier in the thread and change the one that sticks

there's a guy on facebook who's selling some afm's now that i can post up for you, but i'm not sure if i can post up stuff for sale from other folks so you'd have to get a mod to see if that was possible without me getting into trouble

 

Yes dojj its a Gunson's fault finder that does plug into the 3 pin diagnostic plug by the battery and ive got a book / instructions with it and the codes relating to the number of flashes etc and it does cover all things like the air flow meters etc and the flash code for afm is like 22 but its only giving me for code 11 and that means no fault - system pass . However if i slightly discont the afm or fully disconnect 1 cable it does throw the fault up saying afm so this to me shows the code reader is working fine and that the afm must be ok ? Also the links you did put up with fella on ebay i did message him and he wont sell the air flow meters and said he wants to sell them complete with the engine

 

ok, that's fair enough then

but i would warn you to stop spending money on stuff you don't need until you've changed the afm's first

if the fault remains after that then try something else

good luck and keep us posted with the updates

 

All that code 22 is saying is that the AFM circuit is connected.

The fault still could be the AFMs as dojj has been saying.

 

Ok fair enough i understand what your saying however where could i get a set of afm that i know are guaranteed to be working ? The ones you put link for he wont sell them without the engine but even if found a set on say ebay then how do i know they are not naft just like mine and then we back to square 1 thinking it must be something else

 

Air flow meters bought and im waiting on delivery now to try them and see

 

Problem now sorted , I bought and fitted air flow meters but problem was still there so a mate then got hold of injection system with injectors off a Scrap car that was known to be working perfect so i changed that and injectors and all is spot on and driving great so i can only now think that the fault must have been injector braking down or blocking or something .

 

glad you've got it sorted

 

Hi, I have just come across this old thread interesting about injectors. Over time my car has been running bad, idle all over the place and running rich. I have just had my injectors cleaned I put them back in the car but it will not start. It turns over. I guess these are 24yrs old now. Should I just replace them for new injectors?