rejexx

Hi there,

Could anyone give me some advice please. My current Mondeo3 2.0L TDCi (04 Plate) has put me off Fords in a big way, having spent a lot of money on a new fuel system due to the Glow Plug light flashing issue.

Does anyone know if this has been resolved on the Mk4? I have read that the Mk4 has a Peugeot Diesel engine fitted, which is far more reliable, but someone else reckons that this is only on more recent cars. So I am in a bit of a quandary. I want another Diesel and I really like the look of the Mk4 Mondy, but my current Lemon has made me very wary.

Any advice to ease my worries would be welcome. I would be looking to get a 08 plate.

Carlos-Titx

I've on 07 mk4 and the engine is bang on. Had it 18 months and only issue I've got is a lazy starter more which I think is down to crap off the old dmf. It's now on 88k.

2.0 and 2.2 are te ones to go for. 1.8 I heard is less reliable as it's a ford engine but if Dan@fast ford sees this he is the man in the know.

Know what you mean with the mk3. Mates ST tdci was always in the garage with issues.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

The MK3 Dervs were terrible and suffered badly with injector problems.

The MK4 has different engines, the 1800 is a Peugeot engine, not sure about the others.

Martin

chris cdti

No the 1800 is the old endura engine. The 1.6 2.0 and 2.2 are Peugeot units

Straight_4_N/a

Theres two 1.8s ones a pug engine and ones a old ford engine, i know both were fitted into the mk1 focus but not sure which was fitted into the mk3 mondeo, As for the 2.0s there shity pug engines mine cost me 3 turbos.

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

I have got a mk3 early 2.0 TDDI and a mk4 1.8 TDCI.

The MK3 TDDI is the same engine as your TDCI, however without the fancy fuel injection that plagues the later tdci.


My Mk4 1.8 is the single cam old Endura engine that Ford have been using for years. It's a bullet proof, reliable engine. It does have a modern injection system however Ford seem to have ironed out the mk3's issues so you shouldn't see them with a mk4. It returns between 53 - 56mpg on a steady run, I currently average 51.7mpg with daily use, an Ł100 fill up will get you about 700 miles. The 2.0 and 2.2 tdci's are peuget engines, and do suffer a few mechanical issues, the 1.8 is supposed to be the most reliable of the bunch.


I do however prefer driving my older mk3, yes it rattles and knocks a bit more but it is a bit more of an involving car to drive, seems a bit livelier, the mk4 just feels a bit detached from the road if you get what I mean.

Carlos-Titx

What are the common issues Richie?

I've heard it's the other way round with the 1.8 and 2.0's.

chris cdti

I've never seen a pug engine in a mk1 focus only endura tci stage 3 "lynx" engines both tddi and tdci setups. A very updated version of the ford endura di engine from the 80's

Also never seen a pug engine in a mk3 mondeo. Only the ford duratourq "puma" engines.

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

I have heard of the PSA engines suffering with EGR valves, injector issues, turbo failure, DPF's etc.

I think it is mostly due to the Euro 4 (I think) emissions that the PSA engine has to adhere to, it has much tighter emission control and a more complex management systems monitoring things. You have electronically controlled EGR's and DPF's etc that all fail with just pootling about.

The 1.8 is an earlier Euro 3 engine (again I stand to be corrected on this), so although the EGR is electronic, it's performance is not monitored so you can blank it off without issue (which I have done), and there's no DPF's etc to worry about, and a much simpler management system.


The PSA engine is supposed to be a very good bit of kit, it's just the shite that is bolted to it!

chris cdti

The mk4 mondeo would have to comply with euro 4 but I don't think it has a dpf on the 1.8.
Either way we are starting to buy 1800 mk4 mondeo's for taxis to replace the mk3's.

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

Yes I am not too sure about the whole euro 3 / 4 thing, I did do a bit of reading in to it but it was a long time ago. My 1.8 definitely does not have a DPF!

chris cdti

All euro 5 cars have a dpf fitted. But the euro 4 cars where hit and miss. Big cars like a vectra estate or zafira have a dpf or a vectra auto astra auto have a dpf because of the weight and the increased load on the engine/soot produced.
Ford may be the same with the mondeo's and s-max etc

Carlos-Titx

I know mine has a DPF but thankfully it's not the additive type.

I do now and then give it a good reving when on motorway now and then when doing loads of town driving.
Be better the have it removed and mapped to suit but may try and get it off and just hollow it out.

rejexx

Gents,

Thanks very much for all of your advice. I must admit, I was reading a lot less of issues surrounding the 1.8 engine/fuel system, compared to the 2.0 litre engine/fuel system. I was so concerned about the issues surrounding the Injection System on my Mk 3, 2 Litre, that I was even considering buying a Citroen C5, only to be informed that they are plagued by expensive electrical problems (and in a car which has a dash board like a modern day airliner, I do not need those troubles).

I really like my Mk3 to drive and it averages around 49.5 MPG without burning a single drop of oil, but I had the whole injector system replaced a couple of year ago due to Flashing Glow Plug/Cutting out issues, on the advice of my local Diesel Specialist and this summer, in the hot weather, it was a nightmare. Any stress on even slightest of inclines was causing the Coil Light to flash, followed by the engine dying. Saying that, now that the cooler weather is here, it is only when I boot it a little that it is doing it, but I do not want to spend anymore silly money on it. I think I will look at a couple of 1.8's.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

The Mk4 TDCIs are much, much more reliable than the Mk3 TDCis.

The 1.8s do seem to suffer from more problems than the 2.0/2.2 engines for some reason.

Go for a 2.0 Mk4. Miles better (in my opinion) than the Mk3, and a lot less problematic.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

There was only one Derv in the MK1 and that was an age old engine, (Avaliable in two fuel delivery guises) it can also be found in the Escort vans and early Mondeos.

The Mk3 are 2L and 2.2 in Derv AFAIK.

Martin

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

The mk4 1.8 has the same basic donkeys old endura!

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

What problems do the 1.8s suffer with then? I did quite a bit of research into it before I purchased, the 1.8 seemed to be the best of the bunch.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Have they not revised it at all? That doesn't have a lot of power and all the emissions gumf would have decreased that further.

Martin

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

It's 125bhp apparently. Goes alright, a bit laggy but bigger turbo I guess to make up for it.

Cossie Sean

The Lynx 1.8tddi/tdci engine was not fitted to anything else before the focus it was a new design being half chain half belt like the old 1.6d engines.

it was also fitted to the non intercooled fiesta mk5 TDDi with revisions to the crank that do not allow swopping between the 2 chassis.

the old Endura-DE was 100% belt driven with a totally different block design that doesnt accomodate a lower timing chain

rejexx

Thanks for this Dan. Are we talking Injection System problems (ie expensive ones) or niggles? From what I understood from the local Diesel Specialist, the Mk 4 2.0 TDCi, has the same crappy Delphi system fitted to it, that the Mk 3 had, whereas the 1.8 has a newer system. Mind you it's quite possible that he is talking crap.

Straight_4_N/a

The 1.8 tddi is the endura-d engine that was fitted to the fiesta mk3/4 escort mk4/5/6 mondeo mk1/2 sierra and the mk1 focus, later modes such as the fiesta mk4 onwards was endura-de.

the 1.8 tdci is a pugeot engine.

END OF!!!!

Straight_4_N/a

All deisel engines are pugeot engines in nearly every ford from 2001 and ongoing, Ford is still using the same 2.0 in the mk3 as the mk4

Straight_4_N/a

Oh and people saying i was going to buy a citreon ect Lmfao shitreon pugoet mazda ford even mini all use the same pugeot engines lol infact its a joint group buy them all to improve and build onto the engines lol.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

What kind of specialist is he, as he's certainly not a diesel specialist! There's not a single shared component. The Mk4s have a Siemens system which massively better than the Delphi set up.

The 1.8s seem to suffer more from fuelling issues leading to cutting out, poor performance and poor economy. A quick look over on TalkFord and you'll see more 1.8 issues than 2.0 problems. Non are anywhere near the magnitude of the Mk3 faults though!

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

No, it's a different engine. They're both called 'Duratorq' so that's probably where you got confused.

rejexx

All this is doing is confusing me. I thought that the Duratech in the Mk3 was Ford! Basically my problem is not with the engine blocks anyway, but with the Fuel Delivery systems. Delphi (from my experiences) is shocking. After all of the issues concerning their system on the Mk3, they don't seem to have taken into account many of the isssues such as the HP Fuel pump breaking up and striving to making it more robust. It is the Swarf in the system (which can only really originate in the HP Pump) that causes most issues, according to my local Delphi agent and he reckons that in the case of the Mk3 at least, they have not done anything to rectify this problem on replacement pumps.

Who actually manufactures the Mk4 fuel system and is it any better.

Straight_4_N/a

On the mk3s there was a few diffrent setups depending on final bhp and model, The facelift 2.0 115bhp models had the most issues, most costly was the faulty wastegate ecus that were getting killed by heat and you could only get a new one by buying a whole new turbo at Ł1500 lol.

My mate who words for ford said thay fixed alot of the mk3s issues on the mk4 but not all.

tbh mate most dervs suffer with fueling issues i had a vectra derv only 2 years old with only 40k and after two weeks it cost me Ł2500 in total to find the issue and fix it which i had to have alot of the fuel systems.

Couldnt say who made/designed the fuel systems and weather or not thay have changed.

Straight_4_N/a

Yes sorry its the mondeo and jag with the 2.2 that are the same engines fitted in the mondeo mk4s and mk2 focus.

DanW@FastFord

iTrader: (1)

Most costly if you're stupid enough to go to Ford. They only sold complete turbos, when all it needed was a Ł200 actuator. Many of the actuators could actually be fixed with a bit of soldering.

The injectors/pumps were more problematic than the turbo believe me!

If your mate worked for Ford, he should know that they are completely different cars with no shared components, so not sure how he came to that conclusion.

No, that's a still a different engine. The 2.2 in the Mk3 Mondeo and Jaguar is the Ford built 'Puma' engine. The 2.2 in the Mk4 Mondeo (and Peugeots and Citroens) is a PSA built DW12 engine. They share the same capacity, but that's all!

Straight_4_N/a

He's mostly in to the petrols and said wasnt 100%, he had a mk3 just like me and ever since hated dervs lol.

Fuck im getting my self confused now let me back track abit lol.

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

And before, the 2.3 in the Sierra is Peugeot engine as well.

That is what I understand but according to what's been said above, it's different?

Martin

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

Nonsense!