RUNNING IN OIL
29-11-2005 | 03:29 PM
#1
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From: guisborough,cleveland
RUNNING IN OIL
FITTED MY FRESHLY BUILT ZVH YESTERDAY AND RUNNING IN ON EXPENSIVE 5W 40 FULLY SYNTHETIC 
,BUT WAS TOLD TODAY BEST TO RUN A FRESHLY BUILT ENGINE ON CHEAP OIL TILL ITS RUN IN 
SURELY THIS ISNT RIGHT
,BUT WAS TOLD TODAY BEST TO RUN A FRESHLY BUILT ENGINE ON CHEAP OIL TILL ITS RUN IN SURELY THIS ISNT RIGHT
29-11-2005 | 05:06 PM
#5
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From: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
hey mate
basically this means get yourself down the market and pick up the cheapest nastiest bottle of oil u can find
It will say on it mineral oil, and will usually be like 20w50 or something like that. Halfords sell it aswell.....
Very cheap aswell, usually about £5 for 5 litres lol, its about all its good for
basically this means get yourself down the market and pick up the cheapest nastiest bottle of oil u can find
It will say on it mineral oil, and will usually be like 20w50 or something like that. Halfords sell it aswell.....
Very cheap aswell, usually about £5 for 5 litres lol, its about all its good for
29-11-2005 | 05:19 PM
#7
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From: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
i had the same thoughts, the theory behind it being that the cheap oil beds in all the bearings etc quicker.
The only other thing to note is the oil literally should only be used to run it in up to temperature, DON'T DRIVE ON IT FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR TURBO!!
Once you've run it up to temperature you can let it carry on idling for a while, but then you need to drain it out and use your long term oil and change the filter, that mineral stuff wont be good for your turbo if your boosting.
The only other thing to note is the oil literally should only be used to run it in up to temperature, DON'T DRIVE ON IT FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR TURBO!!
Once you've run it up to temperature you can let it carry on idling for a while, but then you need to drain it out and use your long term oil and change the filter, that mineral stuff wont be good for your turbo if your boosting.
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29-11-2005 | 05:27 PM
#9
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From: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
no no no your fine on the fully synthetic,
Being honest with you ive youve already run it with fully synthetic theres not a lot of point putting cheap stuff in now.
When the engine is first built everything is very tight, and just after its first run even at idle everything has loosened up and significantly bedded in.
I'd just run it on your oil for a bit now and change it in a few hundred miles, as all the shit from the new parts will be in it.
Dont worry youve done nothing wrong
Being honest with you ive youve already run it with fully synthetic theres not a lot of point putting cheap stuff in now.
When the engine is first built everything is very tight, and just after its first run even at idle everything has loosened up and significantly bedded in.
I'd just run it on your oil for a bit now and change it in a few hundred miles, as all the shit from the new parts will be in it.
Dont worry youve done nothing wrong
29-11-2005 | 05:32 PM
#10
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From: guisborough,cleveland
CHEERS MATE WILL LEAVE IT THEN WONT BE GETTING RUN IN TILL NEXT YEAR ALL WRAPED UP IN THE GARAGE GOING TO START THE COSWORTH MANAGMENT NEXT
29-11-2005 | 07:44 PM
#11
Look here https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...w+oil+pressure and take note, I would say you need to use mineral oil, if you use fully synthetic you wont bed the rings in.[/quote]
29-11-2005 | 08:22 PM
#12
If you run it in on fully synthetic you will be rebuilding the engine again due to premature bore wear!
Fully synthetic oils provide too much protection and stop the rings bedding in. The mineral oil will allow the very essential process to take place. If it doesn't take place then you may find that the engine starts to smoke with VERY little milage on the clock. You MUST run it in on cheap mineral oil. The turbo won't mind the oil in the slightest while you are running it in.
Fully synthetic oils provide too much protection and stop the rings bedding in. The mineral oil will allow the very essential process to take place. If it doesn't take place then you may find that the engine starts to smoke with VERY little milage on the clock. You MUST run it in on cheap mineral oil. The turbo won't mind the oil in the slightest while you are running it in.
again?
29-11-2005 | 11:31 PM
#18
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From: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
well
its funny u mention that?
Ive just recently had the car off the road, cos the cam went i used the old one, but the rest of the engine was fully re-built 3.5k ago.
i re-built the turbo aswell while it was off road, when i got it running again it was pissing out with smoke.
Bit pissed off, had a look and found a valve guide pushed down and that port on the head was soaked in oil.
So i had the head off and had a new guide fitted.
Now its all back together it smokes for a few seconds as soon as its started then thats it never smokes again.
The bores still have the slight lines in them from the re-bore.
The compressions it produces are excellent though, about 180 per cylinder???
A lot of people have been saying about the oil returns on these engines not being up to the job for the cold oil as it doesnt drain away quick enough?
its funny u mention that?
Ive just recently had the car off the road, cos the cam went i used the old one, but the rest of the engine was fully re-built 3.5k ago.
i re-built the turbo aswell while it was off road, when i got it running again it was pissing out with smoke.
Bit pissed off, had a look and found a valve guide pushed down and that port on the head was soaked in oil.
So i had the head off and had a new guide fitted.
Now its all back together it smokes for a few seconds as soon as its started then thats it never smokes again.
The bores still have the slight lines in them from the re-bore.
The compressions it produces are excellent though, about 180 per cylinder???
A lot of people have been saying about the oil returns on these engines not being up to the job for the cold oil as it doesnt drain away quick enough?
30-11-2005 | 10:53 AM
#19
Is it a ZVH?
The Zetec block only has HALF the numbers of oil returns than the CVH block. The Zetec was designed to have the 16v head on it which was all designed to run something like 5w30 engine oil. The CVH head wasn't IIRC.
So you have a bottom end designed to run thin oil and a top end designed to run thicker oil. Have you tried Silkolene Pro S 10w40 or Mobil 1 10w40?
Chances are with you oil smoke when you first fired it up, is oil seeping past the valve guides when parked up over night. Mine used to do it until I had covered a few miles and the guides had beded to the valves (they where all new).
You might have been lucky enough that the oil scraper rings removed enough of the oil on the bores on the way down for the compression rings to bed to the block.
The Zetec block only has HALF the numbers of oil returns than the CVH block. The Zetec was designed to have the 16v head on it which was all designed to run something like 5w30 engine oil. The CVH head wasn't IIRC.
So you have a bottom end designed to run thin oil and a top end designed to run thicker oil. Have you tried Silkolene Pro S 10w40 or Mobil 1 10w40?
Chances are with you oil smoke when you first fired it up, is oil seeping past the valve guides when parked up over night. Mine used to do it until I had covered a few miles and the guides had beded to the valves (they where all new).
You might have been lucky enough that the oil scraper rings removed enough of the oil on the bores on the way down for the compression rings to bed to the block.
30-11-2005 | 12:20 PM
#20
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From: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
No its just your average RST engine.
When i say full re-build it was re-bored, had brand new 0.5 oversize genuine Mahle pistons fitted (£150 for the set BARGAIN 
), crank re-ground to 0.25, new shells, head skimmed, new valves fitted, everything degreased and the oil pump re-built, but im sure the valve guides weren't changed (all that cost me a mere £200 aswell )
Until i took it off the road when the cam went it never gave so much as a puff of smoke, and it would do the rev limiter in 5th (i only went there once mind you, rather scary on 14's and standard brakes).
Just a little annoying it does this little smoke when its first started
When i say full re-build it was re-bored, had brand new 0.5 oversize genuine Mahle pistons fitted (£150 for the set BARGAIN
), crank re-ground to 0.25, new shells, head skimmed, new valves fitted, everything degreased and the oil pump re-built, but im sure the valve guides weren't changed (all that cost me a mere £200 aswell )Until i took it off the road when the cam went it never gave so much as a puff of smoke, and it would do the rev limiter in 5th (i only went there once mind you, rather scary on 14's and standard brakes).
Just a little annoying it does this little smoke when its first started
30-11-2005 | 12:51 PM
#22
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From: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
The other thing while were on it, i ran Comma 5w40 fully synthetic in it, and now my mate gets me oil for free (cheers cookie ), he works for Renault so he gets me shitloads of Mobil 1 10w40, do you think the change in oil could be of any signifance?
The other thing while were on it, i ran Comma 5w40 fully synthetic in it, and now my mate gets me oil for free (cheers cookie
), he works for Renault so he gets me shitloads of Mobil 1 10w40, do you think the change in oil could be of any signifance?
30-11-2005 | 12:58 PM
#23
Mobil 10w40 is probably one of the best oils you can put in the car.
As for the change in oil, it's pretty insignificant to be honest.
I have just lifted this from another forum.
As for the change in oil, it's pretty insignificant to be honest.
I have just lifted this from another forum.
Synthetic motor oils damage seals:
Complete Nonsense! Any oil seals made after 1975 or thereabouts will be entirely compatible with any type of synthetic engine oil. (The same goes for synthetic gear oils and transmission oil seals.) It must be understood that everything associated with lubrication is thoroughly tested. The major oil manufacturers do not make oils that attack seals; seal manufacturers ensure that their products function correctly with modern lubricants.
Synthetic oils are too thin:
It is true that the best synthetic blends can be low viscosity (0w-20 for example), but they do not have to be! It is also true that the latest engines are designed to run on thin oil, which improves power output and fuel consumption. Even so, thicker synthetic based grades (10w-50, 15w-50, 20w-50etc) are available for air-cooled motors, older engines, or severe high temperature conditions. These grades can also benefit rebuilt classic engines dating back to the 1940s.
Synthetics mean higher oil usage:
The complete opposite of the truth. Oil consumption in well-maintained modern engines is mainly down to the oil evaporating at high temperatures. Synthetic base oils (specially the PAO and ester types) are very resistant to evaporation loss even in low viscosity blends, so oil consumption is minimised. Obviously, engines with worn valve guides, defective seals and worn piston rings will use oil regardless, so there is no point in using expensive synthetics as an ‘old banger lube’.
Synthetic oils are not compatible with other oils:
All engine oils intended for normal road use in recent 4-stroke engines are compatible with one another, regardless of the base make-up. (mineral, PAO/ester/hydrocracked synthetic, and semi-synthetic.) There is no need to flush or strip down an engine when changing from one type to another. (…but be careful with the exception: castor oil based racing oils.)
Synthetic oils produce sludge:
Well honestly, this is just totally daft. All synthetic bases are more resistant to oxidation than mineral oil, and sludge is largely due to oxidation. In any case, all motor oils intended for road use meet the higher API specs such as SH, SJ, SL and diesel equivalents. One of the main reasons for introducing the API specs back in the 1950s was to deal with oil sludge problems. All high-spec oils run very clean, especially synthetics.
Synthetic oils cannot be used with catalytic converters:
‘Cats’ will perform more efficiently and last longer if synthetic based engine oil is used. Their lower volatility (see 3 above) means that less oil reaches the combustion chambers via crankcase ventilation, so there are less harmful ash residues from burnt oil to de-activate the catalyst matrix.
Synthetic oils can void warranties:
People who make statements such as this never define the type of synthetic, thus revealing their ignorance. Provided that an oil meets or exceeds the API and viscosity ranges specified in the handbook, the warranty will not be affected. (By law, OEMs cannot insist that a particular brand of oil must be used to maintain warranty.)
Synthetic oils will last forever:
The better synthetic blends will certainly last longer*, especially in high performance or high annual mileage situations, but ‘forever’ is not on, simply because contaminants such as soot, and acid gasses from traces of sulphur in the fuel degrade the oil.
(*Provided that a very shear resistant VI improver polymer is used in the oil formulation to keep the viscosity up to spec. This point is often forgotten.
Synthetic oils are too expensive:
True, for older vehicles that use a lot of oil or are almost ready for the scrap yard. For cars that are worth maintaining, the right types of synthetic oil are a cost-effective way of retaining ‘as new’ performance, low fuel consumption, and reducing maintenance costs. (See 6 above, for example. ‘Cats’ aren’t cheap!)
Complete Nonsense! Any oil seals made after 1975 or thereabouts will be entirely compatible with any type of synthetic engine oil. (The same goes for synthetic gear oils and transmission oil seals.) It must be understood that everything associated with lubrication is thoroughly tested. The major oil manufacturers do not make oils that attack seals; seal manufacturers ensure that their products function correctly with modern lubricants.
Synthetic oils are too thin:
It is true that the best synthetic blends can be low viscosity (0w-20 for example), but they do not have to be! It is also true that the latest engines are designed to run on thin oil, which improves power output and fuel consumption. Even so, thicker synthetic based grades (10w-50, 15w-50, 20w-50etc) are available for air-cooled motors, older engines, or severe high temperature conditions. These grades can also benefit rebuilt classic engines dating back to the 1940s.
Synthetics mean higher oil usage:
The complete opposite of the truth. Oil consumption in well-maintained modern engines is mainly down to the oil evaporating at high temperatures. Synthetic base oils (specially the PAO and ester types) are very resistant to evaporation loss even in low viscosity blends, so oil consumption is minimised. Obviously, engines with worn valve guides, defective seals and worn piston rings will use oil regardless, so there is no point in using expensive synthetics as an ‘old banger lube’.
Synthetic oils are not compatible with other oils:
All engine oils intended for normal road use in recent 4-stroke engines are compatible with one another, regardless of the base make-up. (mineral, PAO/ester/hydrocracked synthetic, and semi-synthetic.) There is no need to flush or strip down an engine when changing from one type to another. (…but be careful with the exception: castor oil based racing oils.)
Synthetic oils produce sludge:
Well honestly, this is just totally daft. All synthetic bases are more resistant to oxidation than mineral oil, and sludge is largely due to oxidation. In any case, all motor oils intended for road use meet the higher API specs such as SH, SJ, SL and diesel equivalents. One of the main reasons for introducing the API specs back in the 1950s was to deal with oil sludge problems. All high-spec oils run very clean, especially synthetics.
Synthetic oils cannot be used with catalytic converters:
‘Cats’ will perform more efficiently and last longer if synthetic based engine oil is used. Their lower volatility (see 3 above) means that less oil reaches the combustion chambers via crankcase ventilation, so there are less harmful ash residues from burnt oil to de-activate the catalyst matrix.
Synthetic oils can void warranties:
People who make statements such as this never define the type of synthetic, thus revealing their ignorance. Provided that an oil meets or exceeds the API and viscosity ranges specified in the handbook, the warranty will not be affected. (By law, OEMs cannot insist that a particular brand of oil must be used to maintain warranty.)
Synthetic oils will last forever:
The better synthetic blends will certainly last longer*, especially in high performance or high annual mileage situations, but ‘forever’ is not on, simply because contaminants such as soot, and acid gasses from traces of sulphur in the fuel degrade the oil.
(*Provided that a very shear resistant VI improver polymer is used in the oil formulation to keep the viscosity up to spec. This point is often forgotten.
Synthetic oils are too expensive:
True, for older vehicles that use a lot of oil or are almost ready for the scrap yard. For cars that are worth maintaining, the right types of synthetic oil are a cost-effective way of retaining ‘as new’ performance, low fuel consumption, and reducing maintenance costs. (See 6 above, for example. ‘Cats’ aren’t cheap!)
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