Canada1

Any high performance build block should be sonic mapped. Only then will you know if you have a sturdy starting point. All cast blocks have core shift (when the block was cast). For low power use probably not worth measuring. However, for extreme power builds (two or 3 times the power over stock) one should sonic map and select a block to use with minimal core shift and thick major thrust wall.

SBT83

I've got a sonic tester at work just thought I'd mention that useless piece of information lol. At least it's good for something

CrOwSoN15

That's all well and good if you have plenty to choose from, but they aren't exactly common place any more!

mgtkr1

is a sleeved down zetec block not an option? assuming your wanting to retain 1600cc ish

Canada1

A sleeved down Zetec block may be an option. Darton sleeves can be custom ordered.
I believe minimum sleeve thickness is 2.5mm. Thet being said going from 85 or 86mm Zetec to a 80mm 1.6 should work well.

I am not sure how cost effective this would be?

Cheers

gus

iTrader: (1)

you would need to use the dreaded zetec oil pump tho

mgtkr1

fair point gus, forgot to consider the Achilles heel that is the oil pump.

SBT83

Is there not a decent upgrade yet?

gus

iTrader: (1)

dry sump

SBT83

Dry sump or genuine ford pump every 2 mile

little bram

I think stu just wants to stick with the cvh. I think that's the point of his car. Hasn't he got a dry sump on?

gus

iTrader: (1)

yeah i think he has

im with him i like to keep mine cvh

little bram

Someone's got to keep them going mate or everyone will have zetec's

Canada1

I prefer the old CVH.
Almost anyone can make 300 HP+ with a zetec in fact its too easy.
The cvh takes a bit more skill

Maxwell

Canada, you should be buying all the 1.9cvhs in north america and exporting them to europe lol

Rogeyboy

iTrader: (2)

Ditto that... Yes you should!
I really want to stay CVH and for the near future i intend to, but should i blow the engine i think a zetec is a very easy and cost effective option.

muz

I have a Series One block in the workshop. I'll have to check it out and see if it's worth keeping. Might be worth more than scrap after all

crazycage

If need be I can thickness test it for you, or if you van get it done local post the measurements ,I'll measure richies block when*I get back off holiday it's a S2 and split from one end to the other and crack big enough to get you finger nail in lol

Canada1

Interesting idea, but I wonder if it makes sense.
Export just the block - or block and crank? or block, crank and rods?

I assume purchasers in UK would want a cleaned and crack tested block.
Finding 1.9's is not too difficult. However, stripping them down, having blocks cleaned and crack tested starts to become costly.

A small container to ship to UK would have to be paid for too.

I am not sure UK persons would pay enough for 1.9 blocks to make it worthwhile (or even break even)

What would you pay for a bare 1.9 block?

Cheers

Maxwell

Im sure a tuner would buy say x 100 complete bottom ends and ship them. Then then could spec them to customers requirements and get their cut. You are happy, tuner happy, buyer happy - everyone's a winner baby!!! Lol

Canada1

Complete used bottom ends?
How does one guarantee them to be defect free without taking them apart?

Or are you saying completed built bottom ends?

Maxwell

No as in buy engines and throw away the split port heads!! Just have from the deck to the sump complete, so tuners can mess around with with a few test blocks...mess around with cranks, cut blocks up to measure bore thicknesses etc. then the rest can be built accordingly, knowing what 1.9 cvhs are all about!!

Canada1

The cvh split port engines are 2.0 have the larger 3.339" bore size (same as Zetec)
No need to cut open a block to measure bore thickness.

project rs

your dying to cut my engine into bits just to see whats happened in there

mgtkr1

are the 1.9 cvh blocks significantly stronger than the 1.6? is the zetec block stronger still than the 1.9 cvh

Canada1

The 1.9 is not stronger than the 1.6. The 1.9 at stock bore size is stronger than a bored out 1.6.
I would say that a 1.6 (at standard bore) with the shorter cylinder wall height is stronger for big power. But the 1.9 would allow for lower boost to make the same power as a 1.6 so who knows which would work better? I still suspect a stock bore 1.6 being the best starting point for high boost.


I have never measured the cylinder wall thickness of a zetec - so no comment there.
With a zetec you have the option of a CGI block for big power builds. (these are rare as hens teeth).

crazycage

Ive measured a standard bore zetec block and it's 5.8mm at it's thinnest point.

Canada1

Hello Crazy!

Did you measure major thrust, minor thrust and fore/aft?
Major thrust being left side of cylinder when looking at front of engine.(I am sure you already know this).

The 1.9 I measured (overbored 0.5mm) had 4.7 to 5.6mm thick major thrust
5.1 to 6.3mm minor thrust side.
Between the cylinder walls (non thrust) measured 3.4 to 4.0mm
I believe more room was left between cylinders for better water coolin

Roscopeco

iTrader: (1)

I'm with you both , I think our cars should have cvh's in them but if I were to build a non RS I'd like a ZT

zvh

stuart your prob already aware and I know its not a 1600 but the 1900cvh American tall block is a thicker wall than the 1600
and still cvh

SBT83

So if the zetec is based on the tall block, and they are pretty rare does this mean ZVH is away round this?

GINGExR2 T

iTrader: (1)

.

If the 1900cvh is an option why not use an 1800cvh block and crank. I have one an it's performed great. I did a bit of research a few years back and read that the 1800 is basically a 1900 with smaller bores (not 100% on this)
Ferriday engineering built mine and has loads of info on them.


Ginger

.

CrOwSoN15

Are you sure? The 1900's have a thicker wall, this must stand for something in terms of strength?

zvh

yes im sure but I wouldt say in my personal opinion there stronger as my 1.9 threw the rod through the block at 207 bhp !!!!

Canada1

I provided cylinder wall thickness measurements off a 1.9 tall block. I have not seen any cylinder wall thickness measurements from a standard bore 1.6.
The shorter cylinder wall of the shorter 1.6 block will be able to stand more abuse if cylinder wall thickness is similar.

A bored out 1.6 (+2mm overbore) is certainly weaker than standard bore 1.9.

Canada1

Throwing a rod through the block really has nothing to do at all with the block strength.

Your rod broke first and destroyed the block as a result. Even CGI blocks will break when a connecting rod breaks.

zvh

yes im aware of that !!! I belive a big end bolt let go .the rod actually went through the block and sump and left parts all over the road "!!! ive owned 11 rs turbos and never had a 1.6 cvh do this full stop .only the 1900 so personally I wouldnt touch one myself.
my zvh has made over 300bhp scince 2006 with no issues at all with my favourite cvh head attached to it
what were the systems 2 power and engineering 1905 cc engines years ago ???????????

Canada1

[QUOTE=zvh;6352539]yes im aware of that !!! I belive a big end bolt let go .the rod actually went through the block and sump and left parts all over the road "!!! ive owned 11 rs turbos and never had a 1.6 cvh do this full stop .only the 1900 so personally I wouldnt touch one myself.
my zvh has made over 300bhp scince 2006 with no issues at all with my favourite cvh head attached to it
what were the systems 2 power and engineering 1905 cc engines years ago ???????????[/QUOTE

I don't get your logic. You are aware that throwing a rod out of the side of a 1900 was not a result of a weak block. But you wouldn't touch a 1.9?

ZVH engines (same 88mm stroke as 1.9) use different connecting rods than the 1.9 tall block. Maybe (it is) the weak point in the 1.9 is the connecting rod/bolt. The longer stroke of the 1.9 would certainly make the bolt fail at a lower rpm than the 1.6 engines.
So - upgrade the connecting rods and pistons when using a 1.9 block. Steel rods and pistons are not that expensive these days.

zvh

well no why would I want to buy a 1.9?? when my zvh with arrows rods and arias pistons has run over 300bhp and 398 lbft scince 2006 >>>>I have no need to touch one im very happy with my zetec block that has lasted as a daily driver and is still spot on now . that's why I wouldn't touch another 1.9 or a 1.6 either I have no need to . and it seams to me no matte how much power you push from the 1.6 they never produce they same torque figures as the zvh any way

gus

iTrader: (1)

Erm

Mines at 405 torques