johnboy73

hello,i am a bit stuck.
my s2 rs turbo will not start,i know its something to do with the fuel pum,i have checked the relay(and replaced it for good measure)checked all the relevant fuses,all ok,so the next thing was to test the wiring from the relay to the pump and i get nothing.to double check this i bypassed the wiring completly by running a test wire from the pos battery terminal direct to the pos terminal on the fuel pump and the fuel pump whirrs away!

i am running out of ideas!

wedge07

I know people have run a new wire from relay to pump and its been fine ever since. They just break down over time mate

johnboy73

any ideas on how to do that?

wedge07

You'll need to wire from pink relay or yellow if converted, to the feed at pump.
You will need to test which wire it is at relay. Then if it was me I'd cut about 6 inch of wire at relay and crimp or solder new wire on.
Look in a Haynes manual for diagrams bud

johnboy73

ok,at the relay there is a thick red wire which according to my tester has a permanant power supply but the red/black wire has no power what so ever after all the tests,i.e ignition on/off etc,so i am presuming i run a supply from the red wire to the fuel pump?
one other thing though,i accidently bridge the red and rd/black wires and the pump started whirring away!!!

wedge07

If I remember rightly the red and black is the one to fuel pump, if you take the wire from red to pump ur pump will always be on so that's not right. It sounds to me like its your relay mate, try putting ur relay in and wriggling it as it may also be relay holder is knackered

johnboy73

yeah i was thinking along those lines,i have a spare loom which i have laid out and may use for spares,i have three fuel pump relays which i have tryed to no avail,so i checked my relay holder in my car and on the spare loom and they both look ok,if a little worn,and both show signs of a little overheating.
if i cant get any power reading on the red/black wire at the relay what does that mean?

wedge07

I'm sure the relay acts as like a trigger for the red and black wire, so I'm 90% sure it's your holder.
Does it run ok with pump on permanent?

johnboy73

i havent tried starting it yet like that but i am going to have a go now and ill get back to you.thanks for your help!!!!

wedge07

Try cleaning terminals in the holder, it will be something silly lol. No worries
I ran an rs2000 engine in my mk4 on a permanent pump lol. That was fine but not right

st220kyle

I have no experience with this car, but looking at it from a electrical point of view,if there's supply at the relay but nothing coming out, it must be either, the relay,the relay holder or I would be looking at what is controlling the relay? It may not be being operated at all due to a fault somewhere else.

st220kyle

Also, the relay will need to be connected to earth for it to work, is it possible the earth connection could of broke off or be corroded.

wedge07

Can you buy new holders? Coz if so like above it could be a few of the connections so maybe refresh the holder so it's like new. Obviously the red and black wire is fine with no breaks as it worked when bridged so try reconnecting them and like kyle said just rewire the earth to the body too
Just for piece of mind

johnboy73

thanks for all the suggestions and help,i bridged the two wires as described earlier and the car started fine,as soon as i moved the bridge the car cut out!

st220kyle

that points towards what me and wedge have suggested the fault may be

johnboy73

ok,i have put a new relay holder in and.......nothing!what i am now thinking is that it could be a wireing fault from the fuse tray to the relay holder?i am slowly pulling my hair out!!!!!

GVK.

On the fuse box, there is a fuse in the position of 'heated seats' (which of course you don't have) have you checked it? think it's a 20 amp. Won't run if it's blown.

When bridge the red to red/black you're just putting permanent feed to the pump, as you did by wiring directly to the pump.

As I said in the other post, the relay is triggered via distributor hall sender signal via the ignition or fuel ecu (can't remember which)

Need a wiring diagram really as it's obvious the relay isn't being triggered.

johnboy73

yes i have done that,all fuses look fine.

wedge07

Doesn't the fuel ecu tell it when to pump along with injectors?

GVK.

Fuses,They may look fine, have you checked with a test light/volt meter you're getting power through them?

johnboy73

i think so because bypassing everything with a live from the battery the pump sounds like its priming all the time rather than the usual 0ne or two seconds when you turn the ignition on.

GVK.

My memory with this is hazy,I've not had an RST since 1998 and been to sleep since then. Really need a wiring diagram or an old proper Ford workshop VSTM (vehicle system test manual) to check out this fault.

Info must be online how they operate exactly,somewhere.

Has the car got an aftermarket alarm/immobiliser on?

Wonder if where they've spliced into fuel pump circuit the connection is poor or whatever?

GVK.

It will do matey ,you're just connecting it straight to the battery.

johnboy73

it has an immobilzer on it,this is working fine,i get the usual click once you have popped the key in,i have had a good look at all the relevant connecters etc and gave them a good wriggle and all seems fine.

GVK.

According to this thread, it's not controlled by the ECUs on Series 2s, only Series 1s (I had one of each) https://passionford.com/forum/ford-e...which-one.html

In that thread it states that it's triggered by neg side of coil, which in your case must be ok as it must have a spark as it starts with the pump bridged!

GVK.

Another old thread on here mentions a 'speed sensing module' that keeps the fuel pump relay energised when running. Does not state where it is or what it looks like though!

johnboy73

ok well i have got a couple of ideas anyway,i am part restoring the car at the mo anyway,i have all the seats out,carpet,sound deadening and the bottom half of the dash,i am a bit suspect about some of the wiring so i am going to remove the rest of the dash and make sure everything is safe and sound.i will just feel more confidant if i do this.

st220kyle

How many pins does the relay have?

GVK.

5.

wedge07

I have a few pink relays lying about, they worth anything? I dropped an efi rst engine in my mk3 so don't need em as I wired my pump and ignition via two yellow relays,
I had a really annoying problem of mine cutting out randomly, thought it was relays but when I looked into it, it was the fuse holder that was the problem, loose connection and over bumps it would knock it loose and cut out.
Just go through each and every connection from pump back to the first connection until you find it, that's what is do and go from there.
Old cars can be a right pain in the bottom lol

GVK.

Well, the pic above was from an eBay listing and it's Ł46 new.

I've had a look online can't see any definite pin out for the relay.

st220kyle

31 should be the earth
30 should be pump feed 12v
87 is the output from the realy down to the pump
15 and 1 are the trigers from the coil and ignition module

so just check you have an earth at 31 (continuity to car body)
you have already proved yourself 30 and 87 are ok by linking them out,
15 and 1 should be live (12v)when attempting to start engine,

that should find the problem or help narrow it down a fair bit.

johnboy73

hello!ok,i can not find a fault anywhere with the wiring so i think i am going to run a new ignition live to the relay.the earth is fine,the permanant live is fine so i think im going to try a new ignition live.does anybody recommend how to go about this?

st220kyle

Have you tried what I've posted above? im sure this will show up a fault,you need to prove there is a fault with the ignition live before rewiring it.otherwise it possibly wont change anything and will be a waste of time.

wedge07

Is it not 87 as it worked fine when bridged, so to me that's just saying 87 isn't getting the power to it.
Just double check it then triple check it

st220kyle

If it works when bridged (30 + 87), that would point to one of the trigger/control wires (15 or 1) being at fault or possibly the earth.

wedge07

It still wouldn't work though if it was one of triggers would it?

st220kyle

your right it isn't getting power to it, but the reason why it isn't getting power to it is because the relay isn't being operated. So you have to look at what operates the relay and why that isn't working.

st220kyle

yes,by linking them out you are basically bypassing the relay and taking the trigger wires out of the circuit.

GVK.

As I posted above, it's obvious whatever triggers the relay.....isn't.

And st220kyle has suggested above how to test it.

30 + 87 is like wiring the pump direct to battery.