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What clutch do you use??

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Old 16-04-2013, 05:45 PM
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Chopshop85
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Default What clutch do you use??

I'm not getting on with my helix clutch at all.
So what clutch set up do people use and what power/torque are you running?

cheers.
Old 16-04-2013, 06:35 PM
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studabear
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alcon 6 paddle plate with standard pressure plate, 2.0 16v zetec turbo, haven't driven it yet though.
Old 16-04-2013, 08:41 PM
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Wrong engine lol.
Old 16-04-2013, 11:14 PM
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Roscopeco
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I'm using an AP 4 paddle , it's a twat in first gear but once you get the hang fit it's ok lol
Old 17-04-2013, 12:07 AM
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The reason im asking is my Helix Organic is pretty violent when trying to pull away, and I think because of this it has destroyed a release bearing in about 3000 miles.

Just wondering if the AP alternative is a bit more refined, or even the paddle with std pressure plate.
Old 17-04-2013, 05:58 PM
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Anyone else?
Old 17-04-2013, 06:01 PM
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gus
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Ap 7 1/4" tripple plate.
340 bhp and 400ft/lb

Bloody horrible thing lol
Luckily I only use it to pull away
Old 17-04-2013, 06:23 PM
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Chopshop85
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Another thing I have noticed is the pressure plate splines have some pretty deep scores in them. Would this affect biting?
Old 17-04-2013, 10:12 PM
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makaveli96
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I have the same problem with my clutch Chopshop85, I think I should of gone with a AP Organic clutch.

Last edited by makaveli96; 17-04-2013 at 10:13 PM.
Old 17-04-2013, 10:30 PM
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botters
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alcon 6 with standard plate, will take owt you throw at it and feel pretty much standard they have been used in fwd cossie applications over 300bhp
Old 17-04-2013, 11:13 PM
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AstoN_B
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Originally Posted by makaveli96
I have the same problem with my clutch Chopshop85, I think I should of gone with a AP Organic clutch.
I've got the AP organic clutch in mine, 195bhp & 185lb/ft. I got the CP2000-8 kit and did the clutch pedal mod too, feels pretty much like original and handles the power perfectly. Nice gear change without snatching. I have a slight chatter if i try and pull away at almost idle, but i think thats a combo of the clutch and box.

I've only put 1300 miles on the clutch kit and flywheel since it was skimmed.
Old 17-04-2013, 11:19 PM
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botters
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the chatter will be the mainshaft bearings waiting to shit themselves mate my rs turbo sounded like that but rot killed it before they had a chance to blow lol
Old 17-04-2013, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveli96
I have the same problem with my clutch Chopshop85, I think I should of gone with a AP Organic clutch.
Yeah its been fine with the power, but its just so violent and noisy i'm getting a bit fed up with it. It snapped two clutch cables in a year which is why I went hydraulic, and now its destroyed my IB5 release bearing in a few months.

Originally Posted by botters
alcon 6 with standard plate, will take owt you throw at it and feel pretty much standard they have been used in fwd cossie applications over 300bhp
Ive heard a few people suggest this in the past but then alot of others say they had them slip at relatively low power.

So I guess now there is two questions.
1:Anyone running the alcon 6 paddle and std pressure plate, and what power is it holding at.
2:Where can you buy said Alcon 6 paddle clutch?!?!
Old 17-04-2013, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AstoN_B
I've got the AP organic clutch in mine, 195bhp & 185lb/ft. I got the CP2000-8 kit and did the clutch pedal mod too, feels pretty much like original and handles the power perfectly. Nice gear change without snatching. I have a slight chatter if i try and pull away at almost idle, but i think thats a combo of the clutch and box.

I've only put 1300 miles on the clutch kit and flywheel since it was skimmed.
AP website say the cp2000-8 is only good for 169Ft Lbs?
Old 18-04-2013, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Chopshop85
AP website say the cp2000-8 is only good for 169Ft Lbs?
Yeah the -35 is what you want for big power (but more money, and im not building a big power car). Plenty of people have used the -8 at up to 250 bhp.

Obviously if you're into drag racing and such you'll want the extra margin. It seems to be a case of 'officially rated to XXX, but actually works above and beyond perfectly fine'.

I did search about a lot before i bought it to make sure i didnt need the -35. I had a standard pressure plate on before, with an LUK friction plate which still seemed to hold at 18psi (though it was a turd engine so not optimum power).

Bare in mind AP will rate their clutches in worst case being that they're a performance item, so if you're drag/circuit racing all day on it then thats the recommended power.
Old 18-04-2013, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by botters
the chatter will be the mainshaft bearings waiting to shit themselves mate my rs turbo sounded like that but rot killed it before they had a chance to blow lol
It had crossed my mind. It drives beautifully though, and is silent too.

It feels more like the clutch hopping on the flywheel, cause the engine moves a little too. I figured if there was enough movement in the box to give that effect, i'd notice it on the road, on n off throttle etc.

No great hardship to swap for an uprated box if/when current one fails.
Old 18-04-2013, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by AstoN_B
Yeah the -35 is what you want for big power (but more money, and im not building a big power car). Plenty of people have used the -8 at up to 250 bhp.

Obviously if you're into drag racing and such you'll want the extra margin. It seems to be a case of 'officially rated to XXX, but actually works above and beyond perfectly fine'.

I did search about a lot before i bought it to make sure i didnt need the -35. I had a standard pressure plate on before, with an LUK friction plate which still seemed to hold at 18psi (though it was a turd engine so not optimum power).

Bare in mind AP will rate their clutches in worst case being that they're a performance item, so if you're drag/circuit racing all day on it then thats the recommended power.
You see I wasn't sure either.

My car is quite a bit different yours. My last dyno run saw 170bhp/195Ft Lbs, which is why I looked at the -35 AP and my current Helix which is rated to 190FtLbs.
I went for the Helix as it was Ł150 cheaper than the AP and I managed to get trade price through a helix supplier I know.
Old 18-04-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Chopshop85
You see I wasn't sure either.

My car is quite a bit different yours. My last dyno run saw 170bhp/195Ft Lbs, which is why I looked at the -35 AP and my current Helix which is rated to 190FtLbs.
I went for the Helix as it was Ł150 cheaper than the AP and I managed to get trade price through a helix supplier I know.
Power at wheels was 174 on mine, but i figured flywheel was more important since thats where the clutch is.

This will change slightly in a few months when cam is adjusted as power is still climbing at the limiter.

I think it really is just a case of the rating is what you can throw at it, in any scenario non stop til theres no lining left. If they rate it at 150 and it starts to slip at 151 you're going to be screaming at them lol, i also thought it might be the power it can handle when launching, that's when theres biggest difference in speed between the two parts. I was sceptical but there were enough people saying theirs was fine to convince me i didnt need spend the extra.

If you're at central day i can take you for a spin in mine so you can see how it is.
Old 18-04-2013, 10:52 AM
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you have to remember as well manufacturers will under rate what power they will take fo warranty purposes, the alcon is a very good clutch but like any paddle clutch will need bedding in properly to prevent slip
they are available at woodford garage
Old 18-04-2013, 12:29 PM
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Lol thats basically what i was getting at.
Old 18-04-2013, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AstoN_B
If you're at central day i can take you for a spin in mine so you can see how it is.
Unfortunately I'll be working on the car at the weekend, but thanks for the offer.
Old 18-04-2013, 05:28 PM
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studabear
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what is the correct way to bed a paddle clutch in botters?
Old 18-04-2013, 07:29 PM
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I wondered that too.
Old 22-04-2013, 12:21 PM
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martinmilne
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So how do you bed in a clutch properly
Old 23-04-2013, 05:41 AM
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Rogeyboy
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To bed my Alcon in i just drove it gently and used the clutch alot for the 1st 50/60miles... Just going thru the gears and NOT riding it.
Its an Alcon 6Paddle with the Alcon cover plate and it judders slightly when pulling away but nothing like an AP 4 Paddle does. Its holding up fine at an estimated 180bhp tho.
Old 23-04-2013, 06:43 PM
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martinmilne
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wheres the best place to get alcon clutch
Old 29-04-2013, 06:57 PM
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martinmilne
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anyone know where to get an alcon clutch from
Old 29-04-2013, 07:17 PM
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Karlos G
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Here mate...
http://www.randbmotorsport.co.uk/shop/Parts.asp?ID=3

The Helix RST clutch is truly horrible, very heavy and bites like a dog! lol
Old 29-04-2013, 07:27 PM
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Another vote here for Alcon 6 paddle, know two currently using and they are happy with it compared to others they have been through and prefer driving with it than 4 paddle.
Old 29-04-2013, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Karlos G
The Helix RST clutch is truly horrible, very heavy and bites like a dog! lol
I will second that! Hideous thing, i'll be glad when its replaced.
Old 29-04-2013, 11:52 PM
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I can see why people choose it, it's a fair bit cheaper than the AP -35 but I'd spend the extra and go AP every time now having driven both.
Old 30-04-2013, 03:46 AM
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It seems odd that so many use a paddle clutch at such low power levels.
Old 30-04-2013, 06:28 AM
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martinmilne
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What power can a standard clutch take?
Old 30-04-2013, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AstoN_B
It seems odd that so many use a paddle clutch at such low power levels.
They are much cheaper and give a lighter pedal than an AP/Helix Organic so I can see why some opt for it, I personally wouldn't as the three and four puck ones judder like mad when pulling away, they also don't last anywhere near as long as a full clutch, six puck I imagine are not too bad.
Old 30-04-2013, 08:50 PM
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http://www.larkspeed.com/index.pl?a=...e-3-Clutch-Kit

I've got one of these, I've had no problems with it and I'm running about 200bhp and the pedal feels lovely with no harshness and good in traffic
Old 01-05-2013, 05:45 PM
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Karlos G
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Originally Posted by martinmilne
What power can a standard clutch take?
Around 170bhp/ftlb.
Old 02-05-2013, 06:46 PM
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rsmark86
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My last one was ok

Ap 4 paddle with pedal mod, 24psi on stage 3 t3 5th injector ect

I liked it, but stiff when in traffic but worked a treat
Old 05-05-2013, 08:03 PM
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Chopshop85
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Well just finished fitting my new AP clutch. OMFG, what a difference, half the travel on the pedal, feels almost lighter than a std clutch and has a smooth bite.

So word of advice to anyone who needs a better than std clutch. DO NOT BUY A HELIX!
Old 05-05-2013, 09:11 PM
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makaveli96
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I agree with you Chopshop85 about the Helix clutch, what sort of AP clutch did you fit and model number?
Old 05-05-2013, 09:26 PM
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2000-8. Have only pottered around in it so yet to see if it's up for the job, but the pedal feel is honestly unbelievable.


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