Chris69

I had my S2 RR'd on friday on DD rollers and i while i was impressed with the power for the spec and fact it was a DIY budget build -
171 bhp and 192ftlbs on a standard 1600 and turbo running OFAB Efi with beige injectors, collins powerchip and double capacity cooler.

It would only hold 12.5psi though- fueling would be fine for more and it peaks at @14.5psi.
Turning the boost up just creates more of a peak but it won't hold it.
I'm only running a bleed valve and -31 would boost controller help or is my T3 turbo just rubbish

T28 RST

Sounds about the right power for the mods

Bin the nasty cooler though

Chris69

it was cheap like i said it was a budget build

Raj_FRST

I would bin the bleed valve as they are crap imo, get an electronic boost controller and make sure the actuator is not weakened in any way, you will see it hold boost much better and also spin up a lot quicker

Speak to Vince @ cr turbos (01425638426) say Raj @ autoflock gave you their number. He always gives me sound advice, my old escort which was on mfi used to spin up a lot better before I had a bleed valve fitted, even though the car bosted more after fitting it I gained a lot more lag.

Hope this helps Chris

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

yeah the spike is due to the bleed valve and the hold is rubbish due to a weak actuator spring.
a propper boost controller is the way forward, i'm going to sort some air to air setup as i have loads of injectors and time to mess about making housings.

Raj_FRST

You posh sod!!!lol

Do a thread on how you go about it as im sure there will be a lot of people interested in this

Nice one

Chris69

cheers guys,
I did suspect the crappy bleed valve, i can't stretch to an electronic boost controller at the mo.
-31 is practically brand new as i didn't fit it that long ago so i hope its not that!
how can i check if it is maybe a bit weak?

Raj_FRST

you can manually test the strength of the spring but if you dont have an idea of how string it should be then its point less, CR turbos are the best people for advice on this, they should tell you over the phone what to do

Chris69

thanks alot- advise much appreciated i'll have to give them a bell thanks for the number
any suggestions on an alternative to an electronic boost controller for a tighter budget? or are some bleed valves maybe better than others?
mine is just an old brass jobby

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

The bleed valve is not causing your lack of boost!
If it will not hold anymore then it's either the turbo, actuator, the cam has shit itself, or your timing is being retarded!
Sounds to me like the turbo doesnt have the legs (although 12psi is very low on a stock enigne), or the timing mate.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

i'm running megasquirtIIv3.0 so i can control them through that, the easy bit is making the housings, just a couple of blocks of ali with holes to mount injectors and pass the air through from turbo outlet to actuator.
stand alone controller needs to use PWM control to make them work right, which could be a pain to find someone willing to make a suitible circuit and housing.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

if the spring is at it's limit though, the extra pressure in the exhaust housing will blow the wastegate open a little, causing the boost to drop off a bit.

Raj_FRST

Tidy, ive got Matt from M-Techautomotive sorting me the latest Mtech V4 ecu so that should be able to do the same, I can supply custom CNC machined aircraft grade ally to any design so if you want to do a joint project give me a shout ;-

Antti O

You really dont need expensive electric boost controllers.
I use turbosmart copy mechanic adjuster and -31 actuator.
it raises 20 psi very quick without any peaking. Altough i now have mitsubishi turbo but it worked with garret too.
Price was something like 25£

Raj_FRST

amal is also a cheap alternative, this can be controlled through megatune software

Raj_FRST

nice motor antti

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

He said his Actuator is almost new though, so more likely somthing else I would of thought.

Chris69

knew it wouldn't be simple lol
I'll just leave it as be until i have some money to replace things I think its plenty enough fun as it is at the mo.
I might get one of them mechanical adjusters though it sounds like a it might be a bit more effective at controlling the boost without spending a couple of hundred £s!
It was Mtech i ran the car @ btw- i was very tempted to hand the credit card over for a V4 ecu when you see how bad the collins map is on the graphs
I was very jealous of a black 300+bhp zetec turbo rst they have in there at the mo with a 6 speed box/equal length driveshafts etc etc- very very nice motor!

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Just out of interest could you stick your graphs up please mate?

Chris69

Chris69

there you go mate- like i said not the best.
thats all four graphs i got off him- four runs on each so a a little confusing but you get the idea.

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

Good result chris I've gotta be honest i had nothing but troubles with holding consistent boost levels when i used a bleed valve, mine on a standard turbo would hold 16psi with a brand new -31 many years ago and that was all it had in it.....electronic boost controllers aren't cheap but honestly mate the best money i ever spent! Controls the boost so well, can iron out nasty spikes and have mine set so it peaks and holds the same boost bar maybe 1 psi or so.

Chris69

cheers dave and thanks for the cheap cooler
A boost controller is on the list i know how much you rate them

rstdave

iTrader: (3)

No worries mate.....mine did 168bhp on a 120k engine, standard turbo etc and THAT cooler lol!! Oh....and mine is actually up and running after finishing it on the weekend....seems all good but mot and then running in will tell haha

Raj_FRST

Chris, I would have a work in Matts ear regarding one of his ecu's, even the v3 ecu can run a boost controller. try and stretch to buying the v4, matt can sort the loom so it basically plugas straight in and all you need to do is buy an amal valve which are between 20-60, you will have a fully mappable ecu with boost control, als, lc, etc etc etc.

Now, where is that credit card

Chris69

lol woohoo beat you by 3bhp
great news on yours dave knew you would get back into that seat, yours will probably make more than mine while your running it in

Raj_FRST

p.s. as for the amal valve, if you buy new let me know as im after one for mine so may be able to get a deal if we order 2 together

just a thought

Chris69

don't you start matt was trying his best with some very appealing deals with his own loom, plugging it straight in, quick and easy to map etc etc

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Cheers for posting the graphs Chris!
I might be reading the graph wrong but your AFR looks really rich, specially for EFI!!??
Full load WOT isnt far out at 11.6:1ish but whats going on in the middle there? Looks like a MFI graph!! lol

Raj_FRST

the afr seems to lean off up to 13 early on but then drops rich once it comes on boost, i think this is for safety, I presume its best to be over safe when mapping a generic chip as people have different specs on their cars, does that make sense?

Raj_FRST

you know it makes sence, you will get about a ton for you existing ecu & map sensor!!!

go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yeah thats probably exactly what it is, but it really is rich in places 4250rpm 10.0:1!! Not the most economical of cars lol

Raj_FRST

you would be suprised how many generic chips are like that out there, but to be fair, if you were going to sell a generic chip you would have to map it overly safe? some poeple have a conservative speced car, other have mental ones, saying that, when I bought my dfiesta back, some chav put a home brew 2.1 in it, it have an ahmed bayjoo chip on it and was boosting a bar, how it didnt melt a piston is amazing, it was detting its tits off.

The only way forward is live mapping to the exact car imo, makes the most of every mod and you know its running at its best. Well in theory, lets not forget it is a ford.lol

Chris69

yeah it is really rich but like already said i think most generic stuff is, if you look at my last run(blue line) after we backed the fuel pressure off a bit it doesn't go below 11 really so i was happy with that- it does bludy drink fuel when not at WOT thats my main grip with the chip tbh

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

It's crazy, I'd never seen a generic chip AFR graph before, live mapping all the way!!!

Raj_FRST

karlos, how are you getting on mapping your?

and pardon my ignorance, what is WOT? afr under full load?

ram

iTrader: (4)

raj -

wot = wide open throttle.

afr = air fuel ratio

chris69 - it need'nt be expensive to go down the external wastegate route. i did this with mine as i was fed up with busting rads with my actuator, but the added bonus is i get no peaking it just holds boost all the way through. i did my whole set up for £100 but can be done for even less. oh and the screamer pipe noise is awsome if you wanna run it that way

Chris69

I couldn't agree more karlos really shows up how bad they are but will have to do for now.
WOT is Wide Open Throttle

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yeah as above 'wide open throttle', full load is foot flat down in 3rd, 4th, or 5th at 6400rpm, basically when your engine need the most fuel/air, and AFR is again as above Air to Fuel Ratio.

My mapping was going well until my trigger wheel came loose at 7000rpm due to poor welding!
I'm waiting on a new one, it's been welded, and being balanced as we speak.
But since then my ECU has decided to throw a wobbly so i'm trying to sort that out right now

Raj_FRST

@Karlos - who built the ecu?

@ram - can you post a thread or let me know how you went about the external wastage setup, I wanted this only for the screamer pip, yes im a kid.lol I was going to fix the garrett wasgate shut but people said this would knacker it