RScrew69

hi peeps,

any ideas why my s1 is not turning over, when i go to turn it the lights in dash just dims and u can hear the fuel pump prime and stress as i have the key turned over.This is what i've done so far :

with ignition off i've got 12.6 battery power at starter and with ignition on aswell.

checked the coil wires with tester and it reads 0.01 or 0.02 and then i kept the red positive tester on the + coil wire and put my tester earth, to earth on battery an it reads 12.6 again which would be going to my coil.

So from what i've gathered the coil with my ignition switched on to position 2, should have battery power 12.6 at my coil correct so its ready to fire up and spin starter motor?

or is there a different understaning to this which should be present when ready to fire the car?

cheeRS in advance

S1 Combi

Have you checked your starter motor cable that runs straight from the battery to the starter motor,these can sometimes become frayed or just old and not let enough power run down to the starter,had it on my van,it wouldnt start when it was warm but changed the cable and was fine after,also may be worth checking your engine to chassie(sp) earth,hope this helps

rs shawn

Lights dimming is normally associated with a dead battery. Have had batteries before showing full voltage but no oomph to start a car. Have you tried a new battery?

RScrew69

the lights are not dimming when i turn the car over at all. they stay bright as if there is no current draw straining them

moesin2005

try what s1 combi says i had this problem tryed loads of starters and batterys had all the voltages present still would not start changed the red power lead fired first turn of the key

RScrew69

theres power coming down to the starter u can feel it buzz when testing for power but it just wont spin engine at all

S1 Combi

May sound stupid but have you tried turning the engine over by hand to check its nothing to do with the engine itself just a thought if you say everything else seems to be fine

RScrew69

push'd the car down the road me an my bro and it bump started in 2nd gear no probs and ran without any issues.

so would you all say its the starter to blame or something else?

it ran for 10mins no probs, parked it back up tried to start again and nothing at all, starter doesn't click or anything

cheers

S1 Combi

i would say just try changing the starter motor

antony215

Take your started off and test it if it spins up then it's not that it's a wiring fault

RScrew69

will check starter out as it sounds like its dud now

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Your batterys knackered mate.

You are testing for the wrong thing.

Its the Amps in the battery you need to turn the car over not voltage.

A battery can be holding 13v but this does not mean its healthy.

Most cars like the escort require at least 10v to fire up and spark, I dare say if you bump started the car it will run.

A better way would be to do a "run down" test on the battery which will tell you how many amps its holding when battery is under full load, i,e on starter cranking.

If you dont have access to a tester, then either bump as stated to see if im right, or just risk it and buy a new battery.

Im 99.9% sure your battery is dead.

RScrew69

i have tried 3 batterys on it. one off my mates running s2 and bolt it on my car and tried an nothing, put it back in his it started and he drove home

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

Ahh, you may have jammed your starter solonoid with trying to start it then? Or this could be the main cause in the 1st place.

Did you attach you try your battery on your mates car, this way you could have eliminated your battery from the cause.

As has been said whiz the starter off.

Connect the body to a negative jump lead and the positive jump lead to the positive thread on the starter.

Bridge the positive terminal thread to the little connector tab (just next to each other) with a screw driver. If it spins up then the starter is ok.

Trying to think what else may be the cause..... have you checked the ignition relay.... the silver box under the dash near you right knee if your sitting in the car. These are notorious for going faulty. About Ł80 from ford I seem to remember, so lets hope its not that.

Difficult to say with out looking at the car.

Other thing it could be is the little green (or blue its been a few years) wire which runs from the coil right round the front past the rad and into the fuse box. This went on mine and it took 2 of us (one a ford mechanic) a week to find the fault, using the original break out box the ford technictians had back in the day.

Anyway check you starter first, and it may pay to wiggle the silver realy around just to see if it does anything?

RScrew69

ah hah, does the silver relay have anything to do with the ignition i.e starting up of the car via the starter motor? i thought it was for the fuel pump only and rev counter.

my ones bridged on constantly and has been since i bought the car

the goy i bought the car off said the wiring round the front of the rad was replaced when he had rad out as i asked him if theres anything i need to know about it b4 i left.

the main wire that runs from the ecu i think it i the green wire to positive on coil has been replaced aswell.

when we were testing for power at the starter when my mate was turnng car over u could feel the starter buzzing an vibrating i.e power surge through it when the key was held turned over position but not spinning the engine unfortunately.

antony215

From that id say your starter is not engaging so the Solenoid is fucked or stuck give it a whack might free it up

Lee Ivatt

iTrader: (1)

yup give it a wack with a hammer

RScrew69

wacked it a few times gently but nothing

jodyhoare

id take out the starter and try it out of the car as sugested, but definately sounds like the starter is goosed

RScrew69

will chek in morning and report back on outcome

gingerturbo

iTrader: (2)

my m8's cab had the same problem, it bump started fine and run perfect but just would'nt turn over and we changed the main live for the starter motor and it was fine, yours sounds like the solonoid has heat seized but its worth looking at the wireing and relays

RScrew69

right removed starter tested it and it clicks in and out perfect and spins up fine.

theres power to the starter aswell

the car starts perfect on a little push start

so i am thinking now it is either the ignition switch or my silver fuel relay which is bridged on constantly.

when i was bridging the starter motor with a screwdriver the silver fuel relay inside the car was clicking. so i am now thinking if it has direct link with starter maybe its burnt out properly now hence why it doesn't spin starter motor

sound about right?

RScrew69

with regards to the starter cable wire thik red one that goes to starter recon starter an alternator shop said the starter should at least click when u try an turn it over, checked it with red jump lead from + on battery to starter and tried, still nothing

jodyhoare

i think the main switch feed for the starter comes straight out of the black box mate?

RScrew69

what black box?

jodyhoare

if you take off your ignition cowling, underneath that you will see your exposed ignition barrel, at the opposite end to the key there is a black box that has a small screw holding it in place. this should have 4 wires coming from it, i think the starter switch wire is either yellow and black or blue and black.

RScrew69

ok so if i run power from here to positive on my starter and try firing it should start if this is the fault

jodyhoare

that wire is the starter switch, to test you could put a live to it and see if the starter spins? if not then the wire may have a break in it?

RScrew69

right went to start car tested power at starter when key is turned over fully, the lights now dim when u turn the key over to fire position.

i put my red tester probe on the main power from battery with 13mm nut on it

put the other negative on the black and red switch wire and when the key is turned over fully the voltage which is 12.5 volts drops to 3.5 when u release the key it goes back up to 12.5 volts.

so by the sounds of it my ignition switch is working, does that sound right??


i also tested by moving the negative probe on to the braided wiring that connects to the solenoid and this show'd 7.8 volts with the key turned over fully to fire.

jodyhoare

have u tried just bridging the starter whilst in the car? put a bit of wire on the same main feed nut on the starter then touching it on the switch (smaller nut or spade connecter) to see if it turns then?

RScrew69

yep just tried bridging it whilst in car.

on 1 connection it spins the starter and on the other connectiong the starter pops in and out

i'm well confused now

jodyhoare

well in that case id check your ignition realy mate? or chase the switch wire back and check for breaks ect?

RScrew69

which one is the ignition relay the big silver one under the dash? or the black one next to it

jodyhoare

the big silver one is the fuel pump relay mate, im not 100 percent but i think its the black one. look at the wire colours entering the realy, if its the starter realy then one of the wires should be the yellow/black or blue/black dependant on the colour comming from the black box.

RScrew69

still nothing folks, any more advice the car is fitted with cat 1 alarm aswell, could this have anything to do with my starting prob? but i suppose this wouldn't make sense either as it starts fine on a push start

tabetha

Cat 1 interupts the starter circuit, plus 1 other normally.
You need to see if you are getting a DECENT solenoid feed, these are spring loaded, so if not getting enough juice they won't move far enough, they first engage the drive pinion then bridge the terminals on the inside of the solenoid where the cables bolt to.
I did one only on monday, new battery which was known to be good, brand new starter, all connections that we could see were fine, I eventually found the solenoid feed wire was causing a high resistance, someone, I'll call him "twat" had repaired the terminal by using a 2nd hand one filed out to suit, then crimped onto the end of the feed wire with something don't know what the crimp was shit, but then he carefully heat sealed it all up!!
New terminal soldered on, starts on the button now, doing at least 10 starts a day, is a 1.8D van.
Trying them on the bench tells you next to nothing, because as said they require no real power to operate like this, the original starter kicked out and spun perfectly, with same new battery but wouldn't under load, due to having brushes that were about 4mm long, the limit is 8 at least, one had even tried dislodging itself from the holder.
It defo sounds like the battery with a drop down to 7.8 volts, but if you can hear any buzzing fizzing noises coming from the starter when you try the brushes are likely had it, they do go just like that as well, you'll know if the starter is trying to do any work as it will get hot.
Just take off starter, and inspect the brush box, dead easy to replace, around Ł10-Ł15, not even any soldering needed.
tabetha

RScrew69

going to try another starter, any other starter recommended? uprated kinda item?