autospecialists cvh exh manifold
17-05-2009, 03:31 PM
#41
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21-05-2009, 05:48 PM
#42
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i also want a s/s manifold,so many people bang on about how you dont need a stainless one cuz standard ones are good for 300bhp,thats not why i want one,i rember a few years back a performance ford mag explaining why to get a s/s manifold.cuz its stainless its smooth and its harder for carbon deposits to build up,which is what happens with the standard ones, therefore youve got a constant smooth flow thus increasing engine power
cheers
Jamie
https://passionford.com/forum/restor...2-project.html
cheers
Jamie
https://passionford.com/forum/restor...2-project.html
22-05-2009, 11:51 PM
#43
just had a look at all the above manifolds and i must say while i am no expert (even tho i do make manifolds and exhausts for a living i would say that on all the above manifolds the collectors are crap flow wise, the haywood ones have managed to siamese all 4 ports!!! and on the jamsport ones with the big triangular collectors there could be serious floe issues with the way the pipes enter the collectors as there is a big step up in size just after the primaries that can cause the gases to pulse back towards the engine causing all sorts of back pressure issues. however all thease manifolds should provide better flow characteristics than a standard manifold as the primary sizes on a standard manifold are too big anyway for good flow, i would reccomend 1 3/4 inch on anything up to 200bhp-230bhp and 2 inch an anything above plus there prices are way too high 700quid!!!!! i am looking into making a few differnt designs late this year eg/ standard turbo location and turbo above the box location, the flanges cost me 20 quid and are laser cut in surgical grade stainless which will never rust EVER!! and i cant see any of them taking more than a day or two to develop and i am happy to pass my savings onto other passion ford members probably looking circa 200quid for standard location and 300-350 for above gearbox that is with a new downpipe running down back of engine (efi will be required for this as mfi gets in the way) however i dont want to sound too much like i am slagging the above manifolds off as i am sure they make an improvement over standard as the standard rst manifolds are cack!!!
22-05-2009, 11:57 PM
#44
i agree with jamie rst above as well he has a point as the smooth metal is more resistant to carbon buildup due to the smooth insides as opposed to cast, this is the same reason tuners polish combustion chambers it is to reduce carbon build up which you will get on cast items due to the rough surface inside
24-05-2009, 10:29 PM
#46
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perfect
11-06-2009, 03:33 PM
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just had a look at all the above manifolds and i must say while i am no expert (even tho i do make manifolds and exhausts for a living i would say that on all the above manifolds the collectors are crap flow wise, the haywood ones have managed to siamese all 4 ports!!! and on the jamsport ones with the big triangular collectors there could be serious floe issues with the way the pipes enter the collectors as there is a big step up in size just after the primaries that can cause the gases to pulse back towards the engine causing all sorts of back pressure issues.
they are good for this 852bhp escort mk 2 cosworth looooooooool
11-06-2009, 06:15 PM
#53
just had a look at all the above manifolds and i must say while i am no expert (even tho i do make manifolds and exhausts for a living i would say that on all the above manifolds the collectors are crap flow wise, the haywood ones have managed to siamese all 4 ports!!! and on the jamsport ones with the big triangular collectors there could be serious floe issues with the way the pipes enter the collectors as there is a big step up in size just after the primaries that can cause the gases to pulse back towards the engine causing all sorts of back pressure issues. however all thease manifolds should provide better flow characteristics than a standard manifold as the primary sizes on a standard manifold are too big anyway for good flow, i would reccomend 1 3/4 inch on anything up to 200bhp-230bhp and 2 inch an anything above plus there prices are way too high 700quid!!!!! i am looking into making a few differnt designs late this year eg/ standard turbo location and turbo above the box location, the flanges cost me 20 quid and are laser cut in surgical grade stainless which will never rust EVER!! and i cant see any of them taking more than a day or two to develop and i am happy to pass my savings onto other passion ford members probably looking circa 200quid for standard location and 300-350 for above gearbox that is with a new downpipe running down back of engine (efi will be required for this as mfi gets in the way) however i dont want to sound too much like i am slagging the above manifolds off as i am sure they make an improvement over standard as the standard rst manifolds are cack!!!
14-06-2009, 02:50 AM
#54
Advanced PassionFord User
just had a look at all the above manifolds and i must say while i am no expert (even tho i do make manifolds and exhausts for a living i would say that on all the above manifolds the collectors are crap flow wise, the haywood ones have managed to siamese all 4 ports!!! and on the jamsport ones with the big triangular collectors there could be serious floe issues with the way the pipes enter the collectors as there is a big step up in size just after the primaries that can cause the gases to pulse back towards the engine causing all sorts of back pressure issues. however all thease manifolds should provide better flow characteristics than a standard manifold as the primary sizes on a standard manifold are too big anyway for good flow, i would reccomend 1 3/4 inch on anything up to 200bhp-230bhp and 2 inch an anything above plus there prices are way too high 700quid!!!!! i am looking into making a few differnt designs late this year eg/ standard turbo location and turbo above the box location, the flanges cost me 20 quid and are laser cut in surgical grade stainless which will never rust EVER!! and i cant see any of them taking more than a day or two to develop and i am happy to pass my savings onto other passion ford members probably looking circa 200quid for standard location and 300-350 for above gearbox that is with a new downpipe running down back of engine (efi will be required for this as mfi gets in the way) however i dont want to sound too much like i am slagging the above manifolds off as i am sure they make an improvement over standard as the standard rst manifolds are cack!!!
i think you should price items before saying that everyones getting over charged. also this style manifold was used on my zetec turbo engine that produced 522bhp on the engine dyno i might add , this manifold has had years of development work done to it and powers some of the fastest fords in the uk. the collector cone is a good alternative to a merge collector , its made out of spun stainless steel for strenght and very good for the high temps that are involved in a manifold like this. its ok building something that looks good but with no testing in a controlled enviroment (dyno) you are never going to know when the manifolds reached its limits etc. as for the pipe size again your miles off , bigger is not always better fact! , the headers on my manifolds are 1 1/2 as the headers are long so smaller pipe to keep exhaust gas speed to an optimium. you say use 2" pipe above 250bhp well 1 1/2 did 522bhp and 2" headers you might find on a 5000bhp drag car ,definently not on a 300bhp car. things can always be improved upon , like my own manifold that did 522bhp was unequal , now all my manifolds are made with equal lenght headers to vastly improve on torque . also we are now offering a 4-1 merge collector instead of the cone , again helping slightly with flow design making it the ultimate manifold , but things come at a price and i can tell you that the merge collector alone comes in at £150 for me to buy so i think some manifolds are good value.
that my manifold that did 522bhp
note the unequal lenght headers
stevenebm finished manifold
notice the equal lenght headers
hope this helps everyone
cheers paul
14-06-2009, 10:26 AM
#56
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14-06-2009, 10:45 AM
#58
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cheers paul
14-06-2009, 12:47 PM
#59
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iam sorry to say this mate but everything youve just said is wrong. the manifold in stevenebm pic was made by me and is a bargain in my opinion.
i think you should price items before saying that everyones getting over charged. also this style manifold was used on my zetec turbo engine that produced 522bhp on the engine dyno i might add , this manifold has had years of development work done to it and powers some of the fastest fords in the uk. the collector cone is a good alternative to a merge collector , its made out of spun stainless steel for strenght and very good for the high temps that are involved in a manifold like this. its ok building something that looks good but with no testing in a controlled enviroment (dyno) you are never going to know when the manifolds reached its limits etc. as for the pipe size again your miles off , bigger is not always better fact! , the headers on my manifolds are 1 1/2 as the headers are long so smaller pipe to keep exhaust gas speed to an optimium. you say use 2" pipe above 250bhp well 1 1/2 did 522bhp and 2" headers you might find on a 5000bhp drag car ,definently not on a 300bhp car. things can always be improved upon , like my own manifold that did 522bhp was unequal , now all my manifolds are made with equal lenght headers to vastly improve on torque . also we are now offering a 4-1 merge collector instead of the cone , again helping slightly with flow design making it the ultimate manifold , but things come at a price and i can tell you that the merge collector alone comes in at £150 for me to buy so i think some manifolds are good value.
that my manifold that did 522bhp
note the unequal lenght headers
stevenebm finished manifold
notice the equal lenght headers
hope this helps everyone
cheers paul
i think you should price items before saying that everyones getting over charged. also this style manifold was used on my zetec turbo engine that produced 522bhp on the engine dyno i might add , this manifold has had years of development work done to it and powers some of the fastest fords in the uk. the collector cone is a good alternative to a merge collector , its made out of spun stainless steel for strenght and very good for the high temps that are involved in a manifold like this. its ok building something that looks good but with no testing in a controlled enviroment (dyno) you are never going to know when the manifolds reached its limits etc. as for the pipe size again your miles off , bigger is not always better fact! , the headers on my manifolds are 1 1/2 as the headers are long so smaller pipe to keep exhaust gas speed to an optimium. you say use 2" pipe above 250bhp well 1 1/2 did 522bhp and 2" headers you might find on a 5000bhp drag car ,definently not on a 300bhp car. things can always be improved upon , like my own manifold that did 522bhp was unequal , now all my manifolds are made with equal lenght headers to vastly improve on torque . also we are now offering a 4-1 merge collector instead of the cone , again helping slightly with flow design making it the ultimate manifold , but things come at a price and i can tell you that the merge collector alone comes in at £150 for me to buy so i think some manifolds are good value.
that my manifold that did 522bhp
note the unequal lenght headers
stevenebm finished manifold
notice the equal lenght headers
hope this helps everyone
cheers paul
Last edited by NEWTON; 14-06-2009 at 12:51 PM.
14-06-2009, 01:12 PM
#61
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if you fuckin read it properly this is what i got told by an exaust engineer,he builds race systems for all sorts of motorsport,its not my fault he says its shit is it,id rather listen to someone thats been doing something for years and not just five minutes!!! what the fuck would you know anyway,
14-06-2009, 08:13 PM
#67
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i showed that design collector to lance @ojz engineering and he told me it was a crap design and to stay away from it,as for the primaries being only 16 gauge he also said with the wall thickness being that it would be prone to cracking,he advised me of using 321 stainless with that wall thinkness,as it takes the heat 10 times better,also do you back purge when its all being welded up?
Last edited by zetaboostboy522bhp; 14-06-2009 at 08:15 PM.
14-06-2009, 09:16 PM
#69
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cheers mate , its not designed to look nice it was designed to do a job which it does well , but yes iam one of those people that also likes things to look nice and its always a bonus if you can tell someone has put that little bit of effort into it
thanks anyway mate
paul
14-06-2009, 11:13 PM
#70
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well aint that funny mate as i get all my pipes and collector pot of lance at ojz engineering . i have also spoke to him and and he has told me the same thing , yes he is a race engineer but the fact of the matter is that my manifold was unequal lenght with the collector pot design and did 522bhp and 395lbsft and was using 304 stainless with no crack issues and was running for 5 + hours on the engine dyno so i think if there was going to be any issues with this manifold they would of shown up in a controlled testing enviroment and it worked simple as that . dont get me wrong 321 is better stainless but again everything comes at a price and i can say there is a massive differance in price (304 £10 a metre) compared to (321 at £80 a metre) so i think you have to look a what a product cost and what your getting for your money . the reason lance says this is to cover his own back and products in extreme motorsports as it would look bad if they all cracked etc and got sent back so he uses the best products money can buy and thats why they cost a small fortune , they certainly dont cost £550 thats for sure . all my manifolds are fully back purged as this is a simple case of blocking each primary off and filling it with argon. dont get me wrong mate but if you use everything lance says to use then the cost would simply be to much , if your using 321 stainless , stainless flanges and a merge collector i think your in dreamland with your prices as you will be looking at £500 just to buy the parts let alone time making the thing . stevenebm has a manifold that can cope with 500+bhp and i know for a fact there is no cvh turbo that will ever run that amount of power . what you need to do is build some and put them on a test engine or car to see what works and what dosent. good luck mate
14-06-2009, 11:17 PM
#71
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15-06-2009, 07:13 AM
#72
cheers mate , its not designed to look nice it was designed to do a job which it does well , but yes iam one of those people that also likes things to look nice and its always a bonus if you can tell someone has put that little bit of effort into it
thanks anyway mate
paul
thanks anyway mate
paul
15-06-2009, 05:00 PM
#74
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yeah thanks for your reply mate,wasnt slateing your workmanship as i think it looks really good and it looks to work running that bhp,fairplay to you!,i myself have been doing lots of research before i start anythink as ive not got the cash to waste,so you can see why ive been talking to various people who no there stuff,how thick are those collector pots,cheers
this is my manifold for my zetec turbo as now iam going 4x4 the over the gearbox type is useless
heres a list of parts and the cost
zetec flange 13mm thick £35
t4 turbo flange 13mm thick £30
x3 2-1 merge collectors 304 £225
x5 180 u bends £50
x1 1 metre pipe £10
x5 45 bends £35
x5 90 bends £40
x 4 1 3/4 to 1 5/8 cones £20
x1 wastegate inlet flange £20
x1 wastegate outlet flange £20
+ vat = £570 give or take a few pence
thats just to buy the parts
now the man hours
its at least 42 hours to build something like that for me as i want every thing perfect and every header indentical in terms of flow.
thats all in 304 stainless now imagine that in 321 stainless your looking at the best parts of £1200 just for parts , so now imagine the cost lance would want for building and welding it , i would say another £1200 for labour would be a fair price, your now at £2400 just for a manifold for a road car , i dont think many people would pay that , thats why lance does motorsport work , cause thats where the money is!
the collector is 1.5 mm thick but it is spun stainless and not rolled and welded which makes it very strong and very good with heat
cheers paul
15-06-2009, 06:59 PM
#75
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i know you wasnt slating my work and i know where your coming from as regaurds to listening to people like lance . as i said lance is an expert and defo knows his stuff , but and its a big but , like ive said look at what you are going to pay for an exhaust manifold and see if it is worth the money in parts and labour and if it all adds up then you know your getting a product thats worth what your paying , then the next thing to do is see if there has been any testing on the manifold , if there has , again your getting the product that actually works . as regaurds to building one yourself then yes use the best materials possible if you can ,but i bet your looking at the best part of a £1000 to buy parts , build time and tig welding . the time that goes into cutting the bends to the correct lenght is quite a long process and to ensure that each header flows equal amount of air i pour water into each cylinder and measure every header . if they are a couple of ml out they get made again .
this is my manifold for my zetec turbo as now iam going 4x4 the over the gearbox type is useless
heres a list of parts and the cost
zetec flange 13mm thick £35
t4 turbo flange 13mm thick £30
x3 2-1 merge collectors 304 £225
x5 180 u bends £50
x1 1 metre pipe £10
x5 45 bends £35
x5 90 bends £40
x 4 1 3/4 to 1 5/8 cones £20
x1 wastegate inlet flange £20
x1 wastegate outlet flange £20
+ vat = £570 give or take a few pence
thats just to buy the parts
now the man hours
its at least 42 hours to build something like that for me as i want every thing perfect and every header indentical in terms of flow.
thats all in 304 stainless now imagine that in 321 stainless your looking at the best parts of £1200 just for parts , so now imagine the cost lance would want for building and welding it , i would say another £1200 for labour would be a fair price, your now at £2400 just for a manifold for a road car , i dont think many people would pay that , thats why lance does motorsport work , cause thats where the money is!
the collector is 1.5 mm thick but it is spun stainless and not rolled and welded which makes it very strong and very good with heat
cheers paul
this is my manifold for my zetec turbo as now iam going 4x4 the over the gearbox type is useless
heres a list of parts and the cost
zetec flange 13mm thick £35
t4 turbo flange 13mm thick £30
x3 2-1 merge collectors 304 £225
x5 180 u bends £50
x1 1 metre pipe £10
x5 45 bends £35
x5 90 bends £40
x 4 1 3/4 to 1 5/8 cones £20
x1 wastegate inlet flange £20
x1 wastegate outlet flange £20
+ vat = £570 give or take a few pence
thats just to buy the parts
now the man hours
its at least 42 hours to build something like that for me as i want every thing perfect and every header indentical in terms of flow.
thats all in 304 stainless now imagine that in 321 stainless your looking at the best parts of £1200 just for parts , so now imagine the cost lance would want for building and welding it , i would say another £1200 for labour would be a fair price, your now at £2400 just for a manifold for a road car , i dont think many people would pay that , thats why lance does motorsport work , cause thats where the money is!
the collector is 1.5 mm thick but it is spun stainless and not rolled and welded which makes it very strong and very good with heat
cheers paul
15-06-2009, 07:53 PM
#77
PassionFord Post Troll
zetecboostboy,
Looking at that price list above acouple of things stand out.
Why are you paying a lot of money for some one to supply you a couple of simple 2-1 merge collectors? It would probably take me 30 mins to knock up something similar. Certainly not £225 worth of work.
Also why have you bought 3 of them?? I can only see 2 of them on the manifold.
Don't know where you get your bends from but for 16 gauge 304 they seem a little expensive.
Looking at that price list above acouple of things stand out.
Why are you paying a lot of money for some one to supply you a couple of simple 2-1 merge collectors? It would probably take me 30 mins to knock up something similar. Certainly not £225 worth of work.
Also why have you bought 3 of them?? I can only see 2 of them on the manifold.
Don't know where you get your bends from but for 16 gauge 304 they seem a little expensive.
15-06-2009, 08:13 PM
#78
Advanced PassionFord User
cheers paul
15-06-2009, 08:26 PM
#79
Advanced PassionFord User
zetecboostboy,
Looking at that price list above acouple of things stand out.
Why are you paying a lot of money for some one to supply you a couple of simple 2-1 merge collectors? It would probably take me 30 mins to knock up something similar. Certainly not £225 worth of work.
Also why have you bought 3 of them?? I can only see 2 of them on the manifold.
Don't know where you get your bends from but for 16 gauge 304 they seem a little expensive.
Looking at that price list above acouple of things stand out.
Why are you paying a lot of money for some one to supply you a couple of simple 2-1 merge collectors? It would probably take me 30 mins to knock up something similar. Certainly not £225 worth of work.
Also why have you bought 3 of them?? I can only see 2 of them on the manifold.
Don't know where you get your bends from but for 16 gauge 304 they seem a little expensive.
the third one goes on the external wastegate in the pics it was not finished. as for the bends i think they are reasonable for what they are as ive looked on ebay and they are alot more expensive so again give me some details and i will buy.
cheers paul
