After almost a year of restoration, both body work and engine, running it in and having it setup last week, I decided to go back to a standard Cam and loose the laggy 285T2 and the fucking head gasket has gone within hours of me fitting the cam!!

I cant understand why this would happen?!
The AFR should not have changed, I marked the Dizzy so that it went back in exactly the same place to maintain the correct ignition timing, i'm only peeking at 17psi and holding at 10psi, and going back to a stock Cam should let less air and fuel mix in making the engine run a little cooler.
Why has the gasket gone??
Is there something i didnt think of?

Karlos.

 

iv nearly had enough of mine now..im thinking of geting another capri or going for a yb..who knws

 

it just makes you sick dont it!

thats why mine has gone

 

It does fella's i'm well pissed off!

 

seems to be the same every where u look ,is tht why we love them

 

i very much dout it was anything u done buddy,wht signs u getting its gone?

 

When i leave it over night, it only starts up on 3 cylinders then after about 30 seconds its on all 4 again but very lumpy (at idle and when i drive) like the compression is down on one of them.
There is white smoke for the first 10mins (which is normal this time of year, but it seems more than i usually get), i'm thinking when it's stood up over night water is slowly leaking into one of the cylinders and thats why it's only firing up on 3 and then clears!
I will of course check all my plug, leads, dizzy etc.... but they are all only a week or so old!
There was no oil contamination when i checked, but it was dark so i will check again in a little while, and i dont appear to have lost any water.
So it's a tricky one really, it is possible it could be a ignition problem (plug, lead, or something) but my gut says head gasket.

 

do a compression test mate and if all seems ok pop into a garage and get them to test the water system

 

what head gasket did you use?

you say you put the timing back to where you marked it, what cam was it marked for as the piper and std cams have different timing's

 

Just double checked all plugs leads etc... and the are all good.
About to go to Halfords and buy a compression tester!

I didnt change the head gasket when i changed the cam (in case that is what you were thinking), but it's a Ford head gasket.
What do you mean the cams will have different timings?
The ignition timing was set at 8 degreee's BTDC when it was tuned last week and that is where it remains.
The valve timing was left a 0 on the vernier with the piper fitted so it will only be the cam profile itself that has changed.

 

Compresion test results:

No 1: 12 bar / 175psi
No 2: 11.5 bar / 170psi
No 3: 11.5 bar / 170psi
No 4: 11.5 bar / 170psi

So i would say maybe the head gasket isnt gone?!
It's not overheating, not loosing water, no oil contamination, and good compression!

So why is it running really lumpy??
It was fine for the first few hours then the next morning shit.
I might just refit the piper and see what happens?!

 

You've detroyed one of the lobes or lifter bottoms. Very likely if you accidentally mixed a lifter with the incorrect lobe.

With the standard cam you are letting MORE air in at low revs with higher compression. This is more likely to cause detonation of everything i not tuned correctly. Good compression pressures point more to cam issues though.

 

cud it be piston rings? thats what mine was when it was running on 3 pots

 

JesseT I had thought of this but if i'd destroyed one of the lobes/lifter bases would it not be tapping like mad?
As you say at lower revs I am letting more air in but it's not just air it's fuel also, it's mixed before it enters the chamber so the AFR should still be ok, and as with all MFI RS Turbo's we run rich midrange anyway as the fuelling can only be set for full load and idle so it shouldnt be lean and detonating (IMO).
But as you say with good compression it seems less likely to be the head gasket anyway.

 

No as i've just done a compression test and all 4 are good! Look above!

 

Sounds like a worn cam to me. Had exactly the same probs as you towards the end of owning my RST.

Stick the uprated cam back in and you'll have your answre.

JK

 

The Ford cam has only done 100miles or so, and it was run in properly.
But as we all know CVH cams can be a wanker so i'll whip it out and see, dont know what else to do!

 

sounds like a fucked cam
remember just because something is new or not used doesnt mean its not fucked

bet its the cam or a dodgy lifter

 

Doesnt mean anything unfortunately. Just cause the top compression rings are good doesn't mean the rest aren't fooked. Anywho i'd say its the cam... theres a good trend of them causing issues recently (last 20yrs)

 

Did you use a timing light to set it back up after fitting the other cam? as thats the only 100% way of doing it.

 

hi mate i run a piper t2 and the dizzy timing is different to the standard cam timing thought it was 12 btc on standard cam and around 16btc for the piper t2 also if you are changing a cam then i would of thought the mixture needs setting up again as these cams are so far apart in profile
i would talk to your tuner and see what he says
also i just had mine r/r on the t2 with no adjustable cam pulley and it was laggy so whacked on an adjustable vernier and made an extra 21 bhp and lost alot of the lag but its a stage 3 hybrid which are slow to build up with the piper under 2.5k revs
chat with the tuner
mark

 

My tuner left my vernier at 0, and said that it is pointles on a single cam engine!
My ignition timing was set to 8btc with the T2, standard timing is as you say 12btc but that is only for standard boost, as soon as you start increasing the boost the timing has to be retarded slightly.

 

No i didnt, as i said i marked the head and dizzy it is sitting exactly where it was before, but in any case you can move the timing hugley either way before you start getting lumpy idle, if it was out it would only be by a fraction.
It feels to me like it's out of balance, like one of the cylinders is not firing as well as the rest.
I am thinking now maybe the cam has fucked itself and i'm going to look tomorrow, but still would have thought it would be tapping if thats the case!?

 

I changed a cam that had about 5mm missing from a couple of the lobes, - amazingly it didn't tap. Couldn't believe how bad it was yet still running quietly.

 

The standard cam is 11 deg btdc with vacuum blocked off, the piper will be something like 15 or 18 deg btdc....

 

Chris at TOTD set it to 8btdc with the vacuum blocked off, so that is where it still is. Why do you think it should be 15 -18?
That would be detonating like mad if it were set there! You've got to remember i'm peeking at 17psi, holding at 10psi and have a well ported and polished head , it's not a standard engine!

Really?? Must have had good oil pressure! lol
Well, i'll find out tomorrow when i take it out and look!

 

Report to us soon karlos and good luck.

 

hi again
vernier left at 0 why is it pointless on a single cam engine ? this bit of kit gets the valve/ignition timing right
i ran at 148.9 at 0 vernier at 9 psi
now 171.1 with a adjustment of vernier by 1 degree at 9psi
after looking at the specs of the piper t2 it says on there to set 16 btc and just checked mine again and thats at 16 btc running at 13psi not 9psi now and vernier is 1.5 degrees off zero 197.6 bhp
but each engine is different just find it funny 0 on vernier with your spec ( sure it aint been adjusted and done a valve and then just been told it aint been touched )lol

just had another look at your post and the peaking 17 and holding 10 psi is a bit of a worry in my books for a start as the t2 is for higher than standard boost anyway and that spike of 17 then drops off to 10 must be nagging to drive no wonder you are switching to a standard cam coz of the lag
but saying that mine done similar so got rid of amal to cure the boost dropping

when you get to the bottom of it i hope you can put up a post of the problem
mark

 

It seems a bit strange to me that it can peak at 17 and drop to 10?? I know they drop around 2psi but 7psi?? doesnt seem right to me

 

Yeah i will update as soon as sort it! Got no time today but hopefull will have the cam out tomorrow and have a look.

The boost drops to 10psi because i'm running a stock T3 and it cant flow enough to maintain 17psi beyond about 4000rpm, it just gradually drops down as the revs increase and the engine demands more air flow.
My head is heavily ported and flowed with stainless valves etc.. so the VE of the engine is really good! Next upgrade is a better turbo

mark2 yeah its at 0 mate, i had a conversation about it with Chris while he was setting it up and like i said above he thinks they are pointless on a single cam engine! But like you say yours made a big difference, so maybe i will take it somehwere else next time...... then again it did make 183bhp at 10psi which is pretty good, so fuck knows LOL!!

 

That still sounds wrong to me??. I had S2 back in 2002, it was a fresh build running full race head from CHD, piper 285T2 with the original T3 which had covered 89,000 miles , this was set up on 19psi and held 17psi all the way up to the limiter. How old is your actuator????

 

fair enough
is the 183 bhp from the 17 psi spike or the costant 10 psi just out of curiosity as when mine was spiking hitting 14 then dropping to 9 and holding i was hitting big bhp on the spike but only 140s holding boost i also got a burble for a split second at 4k revs then cleared and went up the rev range fine but before it was set up again i could only get to about 4k revs and this was about the same time you went to the rollers i was having a similar boost spike which was found on the rollers but the tuner said no problem with the turbo or actuator just said amal valve or tired ecu

so the easy won first removed amal and plumbed in a adjustable bleed valve and adjusted the actuator most of the psi then just fine tuned it to the setting i was wanting with the bleed valve and then had it back on the rollers so if you have an amal valve why not give it ago to see if you can get the boost steady my amal still clicked and done the same sort of thing on my mates engine having trouble holding boost when we was bored one sunday so you never know and i hope you sort it soon as sounds like you have spent a few bob but aint getting the full benefit yet
mark

 

Actuator has done about 4000miles and is less than a year old.
Will be replacing the Amal with a Apexi AVC-R boost controller soon anyway.
183hp was at 6000rpm and 10psi, had a nice torque spike when i hit 4000rpm and 17psi though!
What i say about the T3 not flowing enough, is what Chris at TOTD, and Stu on here have said, so i'm going to what they say.

Lets see what tomorrow brings when i take the cam out!

 

All sorted!!!!

It was as most of you thought.........the Cam and Lifters!
3 out of the 8 lifters were so burred over that i had to drop them out the bottom becaue they would not come out the top!! Chunks missing, Cam lobes burred, looks like it's all been hit with a hammer over and over again! All in less than 150miles!!!

Piper back in now, all good as gold!

 

Karlos! Is this standard cam from Ford??? I thought they were better than Piper.
Now Im worryed to. I have several lifters that is ticking like mad when I giving more gas.

Im breaking my engine now, the most of it.

How is it possible that a cam with lifters will go down so shortly of time? I know that you are good at the engines. I dont think that you have run the car incorrect when you fitted the last cam.

 

Yes it is a genuine Ford cam and lifters, and yes it was fitted and run in properly.
CVH cams have a very bad failure rate, I do not know why, maybe poor material? Who knows?!

But i'm glad my car is ok now!

 

Glad you got it sorted mate and thanks for updating us lot for future reference

 

Glad to hear its sorted

 

Thanks Fella's!

 

The cams and lifters get worn out or destroyed because of the lifting arm (hope it´s the correct name for it) it makes to much resistance on both the lifters and cam that it gets worn out, wierd system.
My old one totally standard s2 with pace chargecooler and 2 1/2" exhaust, made 207bhp @ 14 psi
(holding from 2200rpm to the limiter) and was shit fast, still dont know why LOL
But have also experienced that you have to adjust the pully on the cam if using other then standard cam, and btw mine was @ 11deg WITH vacum on 98ron