JesseT

Just came back from the occasional track day which left me wanting more performance round the corners. To cut the story short, what have the trackday specialists among you done to make an RST steer properly and not push like a pig round the slow corners?
So I welcome all discussion on proper rear antiroll bars, reduced rear out-travel, spring poundage, tyre choice, geometry mods, etc...

Fiecos Dan

You need more castor (4-5' best), camber (-1.5-2.5').

But tyre's are a good start.

JesseT

Thanks for the first actual response. You probably meant degrees though as 4-5 minutes of caster is really nothing. Standard XR3i is quoted to 2 °47'.

Fiecos Dan

yeah degrees is all i quoted.


i will reply more in detail what works best on my xr2tt, when i have more time.

I have played with castor 0.5 - 4 degrees, camber 0.5 - 3 degrees and toe from 5mm in to out.


I use my TT as a road/sprint/track car (same as my fiecos) and set all my setting myself, since i got the equipement to do so.

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

To stop it 'pushing like a pig' I binned the rear ARB

Have spent hours and hours testing and countless '00's developing and testing stuff, so this could be an interesting read

vroooom ptssssh

Sounds like an interesting topic, will be keeping my eye on this!

Tony, so do you think i'd be worth while binning my rear anti roll bar instead of replacing my worn drop links?

also, anyone know what springs work best with koni's? (not the best shocks I know but ŁŁŁ)

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

If your drop links are that worn then you effectively already have it disconnected Davvy.

Wont be noticable much on the road as you dont often get into a back end oversteer situation.

If your running standard settings then keep it (or fix it)

vroooom ptssssh

Well the back end does come out pretty easy jusnow, combination of only one side being poly bushed and greasy roads tho more than anything.

its got afaik koni springs and shocks on softest setting (still knocks my teeth out) and will be poly bushed fully all round bar strut tops which i'll get at a later date, would also like some adjustable TCA's but ive not long replaced mine so be silly to re-replace.

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

i though disconecting the rear anti roll bar intorduces under steer,


the anti roll bar on my fiesta ahs snapped, and it udersteeers looooooads, and had an unreal amount of front campber, due to the wrong fron arsm being fitted

Arjan

I found an interesting thread on a VW forum concerning antirollbars on FWD cars :


>I have a 96 GTI 2.0l that I use to autocross frequently during summer
>months. At this point I'd like to stay in the stock class which means
>that I am very limited in what I can do to the car. I am thinking that
>putting the largest sway bar I can find on the rear would be a big
>benefit. I've always read and heard that you should have the bigger
>swaybar on the end that sticks best. Since my car is an inherent
>understeerer a larger swaybar on the rear should help significantly.

For normal cars a rear swaybar would help prevent understeer, but
many FWD cars' understeering tendancies are *reduced* with a bigger
*front* swaybar, and VWs are one of em especially when they have
stock springs. The reason a big front bar works on a VW is that it
helps keep the front of the car flat which in turn keeps the outer
front tire from going into an extreme positive camber attitude and
that keeps that tire's contact patch flatter on the pavement where
it can actually do some good. As it is now your outer front tire is
being pushed over onto it's sidewall when it's plowing and the
tire is being severely distorted and overloaded so it can't do it's
job. For your car i'd install a 25mm Neuspeed front swaybar.
I assure you the car will corner harder, slalom and transition
faster, stick through the corners better, and be a lot more stable
overall.

There will undoubtedly be people who will jump in here and dispute
this but i can tell you this is established fact in the autocrossing
world among the fastest stock class VW autocrossers and has been
for years. All the VW roll control is determined at the front of the
car where all the weight is and where all the work is being done.
The rear is only along for the ride in comparison and adding a
swaybar back there does almost nothing to improve handling on
a stock-sprung VW, it just pulls the inside tire higher off the
ground in hard cornering and slightly reduces the outer rear tire's
contact patch as a result but any handling improvement is slight
if anything. Concentrate on improving traction up front instead of
reducing it at the rear.


I think the man is right [/i]

Arjan

good way to setup a track car in general is to measure tyre temperatures (inner,centre,outer),that way one could determine what the basic suspension settings and tyre pressures would be for a particular track.

JesseT

It's been a while and done a few changes since that did wonders for the handling.

I removed most of the front camber by relocating the TCAs to the chassis and then I binned the S1 front suspension for RS1600i setup. It's unbelievable how much better the car become, mostly because of the RS1600i setup! The steering is now razor sharp and the car stays much better level on corners. Next is to install my 20mm rear anti-roll bar with some better drop links from a Mazda-6.

Fiecos Dan

How you testing it?


As i find the only real way of testing is on a track.


What toe/camber/castor have you gone from and too?



And as i've never seen a RS1600i setup, how does it differ to the S1 setup?

sas

The rear anti roll bar does prevent understeer by taking weight off the front outside tyre (the hardest working), by lifting the inside rear wheel off the deck. You can acheave simular results by restricting the droop to the rear wheels.

The amount of front caster you need depends on your static camber angle you are running, as caster is negative camber added to the wheel when you turn it, trade off is very heavy steering. (some tracks we ran the touring car at we ran 11deg of caster).

Normal sports/high performance tyres are not desinged to heat up, you might get them to 40 degC but that then degrades the grip.
Some toyos and yokos work at a higher temp, while slicks operate at 80 - 100 degC.

The mark 4 Escort has massive toe-in on bump which promotes safe handaling (understeer). Depending on what you intend to do with car you can prevent this with links insted of the wishbone or set up with static toe out(only the brave or track day) or restric the rear susoension travel.

Simon.

scholes

iTrader: (1)

my pesonal preference is run a bit of toe in on the front as this helps mid corner grip, Toe out will help with initial turn in, i run 1 degree toe in and a large antiroll bar at the rear seams to go rearly well, and dont skimp on tyres as they can make or brake your lap times

gus

iTrader: (1)

scholes




as you say i guess alot of it down to personal preference


when im up and running it will be down to alot of r+d to see what works best for me

scholes

iTrader: (1)

its all to do with your driving style and how you like it, I like it very loose at the back and a tight front

tont2002

THE QUOTE OF THE DAY.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sas

A set up on a car is a total compramise. The driver has to work out which corners he wants to be the fastest on, because what works on the slow doesnt work on the fast corners or he might opt for an overall set up, where the car copes with all corner types ok ish.

S.