RST Ski

Anyone using a charge cooler? what do you think of them? what spec and power are you running with them?

DanRSturbo

I've got one and find it works well

RST Ski

are you using one instead of larger intercooler? or both, wots ur spec n bhp?

DanRSturbo

1600 cvh, mongoose exhaust, power engineering chip, k&n 57i, 18psi boost, 190 bhp 196 lbs ft tourque on 134k on the clock.

I opted for the pace chargecooler as my m8 was selling it, didn't want to chop the bumper about, nor have heating issues

RST Ski

i want to run that sort of power, got chip, zorst n filter and actuater already, jus wana find a cheap intercooler or charge cooler (having trouble parting with cash on new stuff) then off to the rollers

Tony Turbo

I think with Charge Coolers it would totally depend on how you used your car. They are fine for short bursts on the road every now and then, but they would be totally useless on track or under any sustained high speed sessions as the water would heat up and then not cool the air down.

Just look at all of the big power RST's, none that I can think of use a Charge Cooler.

Mr S1

iTrader: (2)

Run a Pace chargecooler for 8 years and really rate it despite the slagging they get. Car pulls like a train and there's NO cutting or hacking needed to fit it.

I wouldn't run a big intercooler now unless I was running an RS500.

Rick

I really like them. U have no water cooling issues, and very good airflow. If u add another pre rad, and a preper pump and large tank, they work very very well indeed. I only got rid of mine as i have a single pass intercooler using two cosworth cores. This is far better than GRS and the like, but a pain to fit.

Sketch

I'd LOVE to see some actual evidence of this Rick

The fastest top speed RST uses a GRS cooler, has acceptable ACTs and doesnt need Water Injection.

The next fastest cars both use 2 x 2wd cossie intercoolers and BOTH had to have W.I to keep ACTs low enough (if im not mistaken) to make 160+mph

Now im sure there may be air flow / pressure drop differences between the 2 intercoolers here, but how much i wonder? And how much affect does this have in the real world?

(please remember this is coming from someone who runs 3 x 2wd coolers and not a GRS at this time)

Rab

I thought Christian ran a custom made Pro Alloy job?

I had a charge cooler and it was okaaay I suppose, but I did have high ACT issues after I'd been on the go for a while, and in the summer in the city the thing was useless.

had alot more success with a big intercooler

Rick

Nige, i dont know if they run WI or not.

It seems simple to me. The cossie coolers have no problems with charge temps, yet flow better. Instead of thinking about preesure drop, i prefer to think of it as free boost. If u have an extra 4psi, that is worth a lot more oxygen than a few degrees in temperature. Christian has the edge on everyone because of his gearing - so its hard to compare his like to like.

I agree in real world terms, that that there prob isnt a lot of difference. For me, i just don't like something which is fundamentally flawed from the outset.

rstjoe

Totally agree on all the above, i have been running mine for 6 years now.

Its one of the best thing i have bought for the car.

RST Ski

makes me wana get one, looks stealthy too. forgive my lack of knowledge but are you chaps running a standard intercooler (or double capacity) along with the charge cooler or does it replace the intercooler?

stuart collins

iTrader: (7)

wastnt there a big power 1600 running front mount and a charge cooler a few years ago

Oranoco

Just fitted one to my Fiesta. Can't say how well it woks yet as it's only just run in and is awaiting set up. Will let you know after Saturday

Rick

stuart collins

Sketch had that setup, was on an 1800ZVH - he'll tell u more.

RST Ski

Replaces the intercooler.

andyt

iTrader: (1)

pro-alloy fmic

RST Ski

so charger cooler is more efficient then a standard inercooler?

Sketch

He did for a while, but the ACTs were useless and so he reverted back to the proven GRS intercooler!


As i mentioned above, i believe both Tim and Ollie now run Water Injection due to the ACTs going higher (lets say 45degs and upwards ish?) on their high speed runs with just their 2 x 2wd coolers!

As for flowing better, i havent measured the pressure drop across 2 x 2wd coolers but i'd imagine it to be 2psi or so, (cant see it being zero somehow) so we're now only talking 2psi difference between coolers - i know every little helps, but theres always trade offs.

I only mentioned this as its interesting to me as i chose to run a triple 2wd cooler setup, but im not convinced its the best option The fact that a 1600 RST can do nye on 170mph with a GRS suggests that the cooler is good enough for near enough EVERY RS Turbo out there unless they are going wilder than Christians setup! and even then the GRS would still do the job IMO


There were 2 of us who went to GRS and suggested trying the GRS charge cooler along with a front mounted intercooler in the bottom of the bumper. The setup worked well as it happens, but the pipework involved was a nightmare, and the full front mount intercooler does the job just as well if not better, without all the hassle so that was that!

Rick

Nige - there is NO drop at alll on the cossie stuff - ive measured it And 45 degs is naff all!

zippyobrien

iTrader: (2)

didnt tiff do a back to back with the grs and his twin cosse set up

he used it once and went back to the 2wd because of a- the pressure drop on the grs

and b- it couldnt keep his temps as low..

stuart collins

iTrader: (7)

ive had no probs with my grs even after 6 hours mappin on the rollers works very well ,i got water injection but its no plumbed in cos i never needed it . will get it done tho just as a safty measure if the temps go go high

Rick

zippyobrien

That was a Radtec. Cooling was fine, it just couldnt do more thatn 2bar

Sketch

I will have to measure the pressure drop of my cooler at some point but i cant see it being ZERO somehow (although it may be close??)

Even so, the ACTs were going high enough such that the ignition timing was being retarded and as such the cars wouldnt go any faster. Since fitting the W.I though, these cars have exceeded 160mph. That says to me 2 x 2wd coolers performance is not good enough at 2bar boost on a T34.

I wonder how things compare when you use 2 x 2wd coolers (with little or no pressure drop) plus WI to achieve 160+mph with sub 40degree ACTs, against the GRS cooler, no WI, but a small pressure drop to achieve the same?



For me, the bolt on GRS cooler would win - its cheaper than having a twin cossie cooler setup plus W.I. for starters

Rick

True GRS is cheap. I think a lot of time too much ignition retard is mapped in for temperature rises. Retard generates more heat in the exhaust for a start. People are to obsessed with ACT's imo. I had a convo with Stu about it, and he says he doesnt worry about air temps till they over 70degrees. Ive set igntion timing right on the edge of det, with low temps, then got them as hot as possible, and still no det.

A std RST doesnt bother doing anything till nearly 70 degrees - and that tells u something.

If u look at the cossie cooler - its straight in and out - with a large cross sectional area - it just looks like it will flow.

DaveAVT

It may be worth checking out the tubular chargecooler cores I do on my site..

www.chargecooler.co.uk

Very efficient and compact, and can fit in most applications with a straight length of pipe run..

There are methonol Evos running sub 10 second quarters using these units.

The thing with chargecooling, is its the sum of the total parts. You need an efficient, single pass, one piece core, water flow from one end to the other, a pump that can flow a decent amount, even with a head of pressure, as large pre rad as possible (and constantly fan assisted) and no header tank, just a filler unit..

Wazzzer

so you recommend permanently fan asssting the chargecooler rad?

might have to get some computer fans for mine then

Oranoco

Was just thinking about a pair of computer fans for mine.

I have to say I'm not overly impressed with my chargecooler so far. 45deg ACT's on a quick blat. Mind you today is quite warm so we shall see how things fair.

DaveAVT

NO!

Not bloody computer fans, a Spal or Davies Craig type fan..

lith

my rs runs 1600 cvh 195 bhp with 215 tourqe, ive never had any trouble with my pace charge cooler. it gets driven very hard when it gets used, even in hot weather the acts only about 37.c

DanRSturbo

My ACT's never really get above the 40's, unless I sit in traffic for ages Best part about it, is the water temps never get high

lith

same as that mate, ive got a pace rad as well and even in traffic it stays cool.

DanRSturbo

I got new rad from ford for Ł135

TURBO BOI

does bumper need to be removed to fit charge cooler or double pace intercooler?

Rick

It needs to be removed of course, but not cut out or modded.

JamesS2RS

Do u think it would be wise to run one with the following setup: -

ZVH 2.1
Steel Rods
Je Pistons
Vulcan stg 3 Head
3 Bar Map
Greens
Cossie Man
T36 turbo
7.5.1 CR

I already have a the charge cooler kit but do u think i should go to a front mount?

Cheers,

Jim

Rick

upto u mate. if u have the chargecooler, id try it.

HORNETS7

ive got a pace charge cooler running 213bhp and it pulls like a train!!

although i never had my act guage setup so cant tell u any figures!

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

As said above, my RST runs 30psi and comfortably over 300bhp with a GRS Evo 5 cooler. Over the winter and the early part of this year, I didn't see over 35° ACT's at all.

Now the mega hot weather is here (well sometimes), I have seen higher, but not much and only when making high boost for extended periods of time.

I can imagine that the Cossie cores will be good, but what's the point if they are so thick that the air cannot pass through to cool the radiator? Graham could make a cooler with a 100mm core or even thicker if there was a practical and commercially viable way to fit it and keep the whole lot cool without completely butchering the front of the car. I feel that his spec is a good compromise.

My twin fans are set within the management to come on 2° apart. Fan 1 comes on at 90° and Fan 2 at 92°. They come on, cool the car down within a minute or so and go off again and will hold that cycle all day. I never get cooling problems.

I used to run a Chargecooler, as Rick knows . I found that at over 20psi, it just couldn't keep the ACT's down. As soon as I came onto boost the ACT's went off the scale. At that time I appreciated the simplicity of a front-mounted Intercooler and that's when I had the number 1 GRS cooler (which I recently replaced with the Evo 5).

DaveAVT

Hmm, interesting..

A customer of mine who has one of my CC cores, runs one on a high power Renault 5. Using 2 thermocouples and two gauges before and after the chargecooler (and doing runs swapping gauges and thermocouples to eliminate any misreadings, on a 3c day, he was only getting peak temps of 13c max, only 10 degrees over ambient. This was running a T25 compressor, at 22psi boost, in all loads, through the gears, and long 4th and 5th gear extended runs.

This car runs low 12 second quarters fully loaded. He previously had the Pace CC kit for the 5.