My New Spec...
27-03-2008, 05:57 PM
#43
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I hope the transmission lasts, as the Quaife will struggle with anything over 430bhp 
.
To see what power it will have at 2 bar, just check out the compressor map for a rough idea
.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._12_comp_e.gif
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...12_turbo_e.gif
.To see what power it will have at 2 bar, just check out the compressor map for a rough idea
.http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._12_comp_e.gif
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...12_turbo_e.gif
Dont need to check the comp maps Mike as Karl guessed it to be 550 so it must be
28-03-2008, 12:24 AM
#44
Norris Motorsport
Euan,
That was an unecessary sarky comment. I have more than enough experience of mapping cars to be able to estimate the power based on the mapping/engine spec/injector duration.
AJC,
Rev limit is 7800rpm, mainly for reliabilty reasons, although I do run some 0.63 GT30's at 8200rpm. Boost is peak 32psi holding 30psi flat to the limiter.
FOr the record 0.63 GT30's can make 540bhp. The power potential is within 20bhp of the 0.82 exhaust housing because it is the 55lb compressor that limits power. The compressor maps you will see listed for the GT3076r are NOT the same as the turbo Martin and I fit to our engines. The compresor wheel is larger AND we use a 0.70A/R housing rather than the normal 0.60A/R of the normal GT3076r.
That was an unecessary sarky comment. I have more than enough experience of mapping cars to be able to estimate the power based on the mapping/engine spec/injector duration.
AJC,
Rev limit is 7800rpm, mainly for reliabilty reasons, although I do run some 0.63 GT30's at 8200rpm. Boost is peak 32psi holding 30psi flat to the limiter.
FOr the record 0.63 GT30's can make 540bhp. The power potential is within 20bhp of the 0.82 exhaust housing because it is the 55lb compressor that limits power. The compressor maps you will see listed for the GT3076r are NOT the same as the turbo Martin and I fit to our engines. The compresor wheel is larger AND we use a 0.70A/R housing rather than the normal 0.60A/R of the normal GT3076r.
28-03-2008, 12:42 AM
#45
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Karl, thats good to know mate.
i think mine is heading towards you in a month or so - via Martoon of course.
its on the solid lifters and Martoons own spec cams, rev limit is towards 8300rpm, L8 of course and ive got the Pectel boost pot to run with it, obviously airs etc.
another one for you to get your teeth into - but GT3076 (possibly
)
i think mine is heading towards you in a month or so - via Martoon of course.
its on the solid lifters and Martoons own spec cams, rev limit is towards 8300rpm, L8 of course and ive got the Pectel boost pot to run with it, obviously airs etc.
another one for you to get your teeth into - but GT3076 (possibly
)
28-03-2008, 12:58 AM
#47
I thought the flow limits of the GT30 0.70 a/r compressor were as follows:
480bhp 0.63 a/r
510bhp 0.82 a/r
550bhp 1.06 a/r
+/- 20bhp depending on how well flowed the head is.
What back-pressure readings are being seen at 540bhp on a 0.63 a/r version
?
Either way, sounds like Andy has the car he always wanted now
.
480bhp 0.63 a/r
510bhp 0.82 a/r
550bhp 1.06 a/r
+/- 20bhp depending on how well flowed the head is
.What back-pressure readings are being seen at 540bhp on a 0.63 a/r version
?Either way, sounds like Andy has the car he always wanted now
.
28-03-2008, 01:15 AM
#48
Norris Motorsport
Hi Mike,
I think the confusing issue with GT30's is that just like T3's of T4's there are MANY versions of it. For example within the GT3076r did you know there are TWO compressor wheels, both with 76mm exducer diameter (hence 76 in name) however one is a 50 lb 6 blade compressor, the other a 55lb 7 blade compressor. Likewise the std housing is a 0.60A/R but I normally run with the larger 0.70A/R.
I have achieved 530bhp on the 0.63 variant of GT30 but with the 55lb compressor wheel and A/R 70 compressor. Back pressure readings were 35psi at 30 psi boost rising to 40psi back pressure at 8000rpm. EGT's were sub 900, AFR at 11.8:1.
Lastly what must be remembered is it is largely the compressor flow rate that limits power on the GT30 family of turbos NOT the exhaust housings. This is because with the 0.82 exhaust housing, the turbine stage can effectively handle more exhaust flow than the compressor can deliver. A laymans example, is that when using the 0.82 housing the turbo simply cannot hold anymore than 30psi after 7500rpm. Changing to the 0.63 turbine see's similar top end boost and hence similar power.
(All above comments are based on a YB engine)
I think the confusing issue with GT30's is that just like T3's of T4's there are MANY versions of it. For example within the GT3076r did you know there are TWO compressor wheels, both with 76mm exducer diameter (hence 76 in name) however one is a 50 lb 6 blade compressor, the other a 55lb 7 blade compressor. Likewise the std housing is a 0.60A/R but I normally run with the larger 0.70A/R.
I have achieved 530bhp on the 0.63 variant of GT30 but with the 55lb compressor wheel and A/R 70 compressor. Back pressure readings were 35psi at 30 psi boost rising to 40psi back pressure at 8000rpm. EGT's were sub 900, AFR at 11.8:1.
Lastly what must be remembered is it is largely the compressor flow rate that limits power on the GT30 family of turbos NOT the exhaust housings. This is because with the 0.82 exhaust housing, the turbine stage can effectively handle more exhaust flow than the compressor can deliver. A laymans example, is that when using the 0.82 housing the turbo simply cannot hold anymore than 30psi after 7500rpm. Changing to the 0.63 turbine see's similar top end boost and hence similar power.
(All above comments are based on a YB engine)
Last edited by Karl; 28-03-2008 at 01:21 AM.
28-03-2008, 03:46 AM
#49
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Hi Mike,
I think the confusing issue with GT30's is that just like T3's of T4's there are MANY versions of it. For example within the GT3076r did you know there are TWO compressor wheels, both with 76mm exducer diameter (hence 76 in name) however one is a 50 lb 6 blade compressor, the other a 55lb 7 blade compressor. Likewise the std housing is a 0.60A/R but I normally run with the larger 0.70A/R.
I have achieved 530bhp on the 0.63 variant of GT30 but with the 55lb compressor wheel and A/R 70 compressor. Back pressure readings were 35psi at 30 psi boost rising to 40psi back pressure at 8000rpm. EGT's were sub 900, AFR at 11.8:1.
Lastly what must be remembered is it is largely the compressor flow rate that limits power on the GT30 family of turbos NOT the exhaust housings. This is because with the 0.82 exhaust housing, the turbine stage can effectively handle more exhaust flow than the compressor can deliver. A laymans example, is that when using the 0.82 housing the turbo simply cannot hold anymore than 30psi after 7500rpm. Changing to the 0.63 turbine see's similar top end boost and hence similar power.
(All above comments are based on a YB engine)
I think the confusing issue with GT30's is that just like T3's of T4's there are MANY versions of it. For example within the GT3076r did you know there are TWO compressor wheels, both with 76mm exducer diameter (hence 76 in name) however one is a 50 lb 6 blade compressor, the other a 55lb 7 blade compressor. Likewise the std housing is a 0.60A/R but I normally run with the larger 0.70A/R.
I have achieved 530bhp on the 0.63 variant of GT30 but with the 55lb compressor wheel and A/R 70 compressor. Back pressure readings were 35psi at 30 psi boost rising to 40psi back pressure at 8000rpm. EGT's were sub 900, AFR at 11.8:1.
Lastly what must be remembered is it is largely the compressor flow rate that limits power on the GT30 family of turbos NOT the exhaust housings. This is because with the 0.82 exhaust housing, the turbine stage can effectively handle more exhaust flow than the compressor can deliver. A laymans example, is that when using the 0.82 housing the turbo simply cannot hold anymore than 30psi after 7500rpm. Changing to the 0.63 turbine see's similar top end boost and hence similar power.
(All above comments are based on a YB engine)
What is the RPM Vs Boost Response difference between the types?
28-03-2008, 09:25 PM
#51
Hi Mike,
I think the confusing issue with GT30's is that just like T3's of T4's there are MANY versions of it. For example within the GT3076r did you know there are TWO compressor wheels, both with 76mm exducer diameter (hence 76 in name) however one is a 50 lb 6 blade compressor, the other a 55lb 7 blade compressor. Likewise the std housing is a 0.60A/R but I normally run with the larger 0.70A/R.
I have achieved 530bhp on the 0.63 variant of GT30 but with the 55lb compressor wheel and A/R 70 compressor. Back pressure readings were 35psi at 30 psi boost rising to 40psi back pressure at 8000rpm. EGT's were sub 900, AFR at 11.8:1.
Lastly what must be remembered is it is largely the compressor flow rate that limits power on the GT30 family of turbos NOT the exhaust housings. This is because with the 0.82 exhaust housing, the turbine stage can effectively handle more exhaust flow than the compressor can deliver. A laymans example, is that when using the 0.82 housing the turbo simply cannot hold anymore than 30psi after 7500rpm. Changing to the 0.63 turbine see's similar top end boost and hence similar power.
(All above comments are based on a YB engine)
I think the confusing issue with GT30's is that just like T3's of T4's there are MANY versions of it. For example within the GT3076r did you know there are TWO compressor wheels, both with 76mm exducer diameter (hence 76 in name) however one is a 50 lb 6 blade compressor, the other a 55lb 7 blade compressor. Likewise the std housing is a 0.60A/R but I normally run with the larger 0.70A/R.
I have achieved 530bhp on the 0.63 variant of GT30 but with the 55lb compressor wheel and A/R 70 compressor. Back pressure readings were 35psi at 30 psi boost rising to 40psi back pressure at 8000rpm. EGT's were sub 900, AFR at 11.8:1.
Lastly what must be remembered is it is largely the compressor flow rate that limits power on the GT30 family of turbos NOT the exhaust housings. This is because with the 0.82 exhaust housing, the turbine stage can effectively handle more exhaust flow than the compressor can deliver. A laymans example, is that when using the 0.82 housing the turbo simply cannot hold anymore than 30psi after 7500rpm. Changing to the 0.63 turbine see's similar top end boost and hence similar power.
(All above comments are based on a YB engine)
Would be interested in knowing how you measure the bhp, as I know you're not a fan of engine dynoes, so I'm assuming that this is a calculated rolling road flywheel figure? Have you got the at wheel figures instead, as correspondingly, I'm not a great fan of calculated flywheel figures
.Back pressure isn't as much as I was expecting though
. I'd like a drive of one of these cars in order to make a direct comparison with my shonky T4 .Will be interesting to see what Paul Rs makes in comparison on the engine dyno, as his turbo is the same spec as you have quoted above
.
28-03-2008, 10:04 PM
#52
Karl, thats good to know mate.
i think mine is heading towards you in a month or so - via Martoon of course.
its on the solid lifters and Martoons own spec cams, rev limit is towards 8300rpm, L8 of course and ive got the Pectel boost pot to run with it, obviously airs etc.
another one for you to get your teeth into - but GT3076 (possibly)
i think mine is heading towards you in a month or so - via Martoon of course.
its on the solid lifters and Martoons own spec cams, rev limit is towards 8300rpm, L8 of course and ive got the Pectel boost pot to run with it, obviously airs etc.
another one for you to get your teeth into - but GT3076 (possibly
)
And BTW doubting Thomas's Karls results speak for themselves ..
Last edited by Martin-Hadland; 28-03-2008 at 10:07 PM.
28-03-2008, 10:42 PM
#54
10K+ Poster!!
Euan,
That was an unecessary sarky comment. I have more than enough experience of mapping cars to be able to estimate the power based on the mapping/engine spec/injector duration.
AJC,
Rev limit is 7800rpm, mainly for reliabilty reasons, although I do run some 0.63 GT30's at 8200rpm. Boost is peak 32psi holding 30psi flat to the limiter.
FOr the record 0.63 GT30's can make 540bhp. The power potential is within 20bhp of the 0.82 exhaust housing because it is the 55lb compressor that limits power. The compressor maps you will see listed for the GT3076r are NOT the same as the turbo Martin and I fit to our engines. The compresor wheel is larger AND we use a 0.70A/R housing rather than the normal 0.60A/R of the normal GT3076r.
That was an unecessary sarky comment. I have more than enough experience of mapping cars to be able to estimate the power based on the mapping/engine spec/injector duration.
AJC,
Rev limit is 7800rpm, mainly for reliabilty reasons, although I do run some 0.63 GT30's at 8200rpm. Boost is peak 32psi holding 30psi flat to the limiter.
FOr the record 0.63 GT30's can make 540bhp. The power potential is within 20bhp of the 0.82 exhaust housing because it is the 55lb compressor that limits power. The compressor maps you will see listed for the GT3076r are NOT the same as the turbo Martin and I fit to our engines. The compresor wheel is larger AND we use a 0.70A/R housing rather than the normal 0.60A/R of the normal GT3076r.
wasnt meant in a nasty way Karl, so sorry of it came across that way.
just seems like its becoming to easy to get the big numbers IMO.
I understand that you have tons of experience in mappting high powered cars but a guess is still a guess.
I only say this thru experience as I once lost over 50bhp and didnt not even feel it until the car was on the rollers.
28-03-2008, 10:46 PM
#55
10K+ Poster!!
Hi Mike,
I think the confusing issue with GT30's is that just like T3's of T4's there are MANY versions of it. For example within the GT3076r did you know there are TWO compressor wheels, both with 76mm exducer diameter (hence 76 in name) however one is a 50 lb 6 blade compressor, the other a 55lb 7 blade compressor. Likewise the std housing is a 0.60A/R but I normally run with the larger 0.70A/R.
I have achieved 530bhp on the 0.63 variant of GT30 but with the 55lb compressor wheel and A/R 70 compressor. Back pressure readings were 35psi at 30 psi boost rising to 40psi back pressure at 8000rpm. EGT's were sub 900, AFR at 11.8:1.
Lastly what must be remembered is it is largely the compressor flow rate that limits power on the GT30 family of turbos NOT the exhaust housings. This is because with the 0.82 exhaust housing, the turbine stage can effectively handle more exhaust flow than the compressor can deliver. A laymans example, is that when using the 0.82 housing the turbo simply cannot hold anymore than 30psi after 7500rpm. Changing to the 0.63 turbine see's similar top end boost and hence similar power.
(All above comments are based on a YB engine)
I think the confusing issue with GT30's is that just like T3's of T4's there are MANY versions of it. For example within the GT3076r did you know there are TWO compressor wheels, both with 76mm exducer diameter (hence 76 in name) however one is a 50 lb 6 blade compressor, the other a 55lb 7 blade compressor. Likewise the std housing is a 0.60A/R but I normally run with the larger 0.70A/R.
I have achieved 530bhp on the 0.63 variant of GT30 but with the 55lb compressor wheel and A/R 70 compressor. Back pressure readings were 35psi at 30 psi boost rising to 40psi back pressure at 8000rpm. EGT's were sub 900, AFR at 11.8:1.
Lastly what must be remembered is it is largely the compressor flow rate that limits power on the GT30 family of turbos NOT the exhaust housings. This is because with the 0.82 exhaust housing, the turbine stage can effectively handle more exhaust flow than the compressor can deliver. A laymans example, is that when using the 0.82 housing the turbo simply cannot hold anymore than 30psi after 7500rpm. Changing to the 0.63 turbine see's similar top end boost and hence similar power.
(All above comments are based on a YB engine)
Massive back pressure readings....
29-03-2008, 12:42 AM
#56
. This hasn't been revealed, so the jury is still out . I'm sure if you saw some figures of 480bhp quoted, you would think that was respectable. However, if you then learned it was on EAs rollers and on four greys, you wouldn't think so much of the results
. All information needs to be presented .I was expecting high 40's at the very least, so not as bad as I thought
.
29-03-2008, 09:41 AM
#60
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Andy, was yours running on a ST inlet anyway?
thats all mine is going to be running with, just with a plenum spacer.
Exhaust housing will help you push the power figures up better if you went for a larger variant, but the knock on effect is a longer spool up time - so depends on how you want the car to feel and perform!
bigger I/C will also help with temperatures obviously, which again in a knock on effect may allow more boost or greater ingnition to be used.
what I/C are you running at present?
any water injection atall?
and just to say, i thought it was a work of art under the bonnet, very nicely done
thats all mine is going to be running with, just with a plenum spacer.
Exhaust housing will help you push the power figures up better if you went for a larger variant, but the knock on effect is a longer spool up time - so depends on how you want the car to feel and perform!
bigger I/C will also help with temperatures obviously, which again in a knock on effect may allow more boost or greater ingnition to be used.
what I/C are you running at present?
any water injection atall?
and just to say, i thought it was a work of art under the bonnet, very nicely done
29-03-2008, 09:44 AM
#61
I`ve driven lots of big power cars from various tuners over the years and don`t really get easily impressed anymore but your car is a fookin hoot to drive and as a package i don`t think you could improve on it without as i say making compromise decisions elsewhere.......
LEAVE IT ALONE...... IT`S PERFECT
29-03-2008, 01:13 PM
#62
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Andy.....it doesn`t need any more power mate,having driven it i was hugely impressed with what the car does EVERYWHERE....it`s very very quick even for a lardy fully trimmed road car that almost certainly weighs over 1350Kg but what impressed me even more was how good it is everywhere else in the range.......it drive perfect off boost,has no transient fuelling issues,no surge issues,spools up like a T34 AND idles perfectly stable indefinitely(No mean feat with BD16 inlet and BD14 exhaust).....Martin and Karl have done a fantastic job on the car,in my opinion it`s the PERFECT road spec and i think you would ruin it by chasing numbers as i reckon this would compromise it in other areas.
I`ve driven lots of big power cars from various tuners over the years and don`t really get easily impressed anymore but your car is a fookin hoot to drive and as a package i don`t think you could improve on it without as i say making compromise decisions elsewhere.......
LEAVE IT ALONE...... IT`S PERFECT
I`ve driven lots of big power cars from various tuners over the years and don`t really get easily impressed anymore but your car is a fookin hoot to drive and as a package i don`t think you could improve on it without as i say making compromise decisions elsewhere.......
LEAVE IT ALONE...... IT`S PERFECT
Just been out with andy for the last few hours and you wouldnt tell any difference agaist a stg3 T34 around town, but then ALL HELL LETS LOOSE!!!!!
Last edited by bigpower; 29-03-2008 at 01:25 PM.
29-03-2008, 06:38 PM
#64
cheers rob, i do agree with you there, i think its superb, just want to get tracking, wheels balanced all sorted then it should be nicer to drive
karl, cheers for the kind comment and thank you very much for today
euan, yes, i know that, what sytem are you using? are hayward scott systems the best way to go?
karl, cheers for the kind comment and thank you very much for today
euan, yes, i know that, what sytem are you using? are hayward scott systems the best way to go?
30-03-2008, 09:58 PM
#66
10K+ Poster!!
Mine is a custom system made at AVA and is quite a bit bigger than the hayward and scott.
Its a full 4" for about half the system then spltits into a twin 3" system, its very quiet and we see very little bacl pressure in the system at all.
Wil. i dont think it helps actual response but it does help top end power
Its a full 4" for about half the system then spltits into a twin 3" system, its very quiet and we see very little bacl pressure in the system at all.
Wil. i dont think it helps actual response but it does help top end power
30-03-2008, 10:40 PM
#67
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Sorry for the thread drift AJC 
, but Euan your car looks awsome on that spec T4 etc and the response, if the EEC IV experiment works at 400ish BHP then it's a toss up between a GT30 and a T4 Rollerbearing, just be interesting to see the two turbos on identical engines.....
, but Euan your car looks awsome on that spec T4 etc and the response, if the EEC IV experiment works at 400ish BHP then it's a toss up between a GT30 and a T4 Rollerbearing, just be interesting to see the two turbos on identical engines.....
31-03-2008, 04:29 PM
#69
I have to agree with what has been posted. It's unfortunate that some people seem to be disappointed in an engine if the numbers don't start with a 5 or a 6
, which then can lead to exagerating the power claims to placate customers. It really gets on my nerves, as it also creates the never ending number chasing that RUINS the driveability of a car. I'd much rather have a 480bhp engine that started boosting at 3000rpm than one that made 520bhp, but didn't come on boost until 4000rpm. The amount of money I have spent on my engine, I could have quite easily gone for MUCH more power (as it is only limited by my turbo spec), but I did not want something that would get on my nerves in normal driving. Your car sounds PERFECT, and the only thing I would be swapping over is the Quaife gearkit (while it is still in one piece and worth something), as it WILL break
.
08-04-2008, 08:59 AM
#71
Some interesting back to back figures .
Engine spec: 7.5:1, EECIV plenum, 2wd exhaust manifold (with Reyland external wastegate adapter), GT30 0.70 a/r compressor housing, full roller bearing turbo, T6 + eight 803 injectors (WRC manifold). Back pressure measured in exhaust manifold between engine and turbo (intermediate section).
0.82 a/r turbine housing
RPM Bst BP Torque BHP
3000 08 04 199.7 116.9
3500 28 15 360.5 242.7
4000 32 20 386.3 293.1
4500 32 21 404.9 348.7
5000 32 24 394.9 374.7
5500 32 26 394.4 414.7
6000 32 28 395.1 450.7
6500 32 32 389.6 483.7
7000 32 35 376.3 501.5
7500 32 40 341.3 485.4
0.63 a/r turbine housing
RPM Bst BP Torque BHP
3000 13 10 238.8 138.1
3500 32 24 389.4 259.2
4000 32 27 388.3 297.5
4500 32 31 404.1 345.0
5000 32 34 397.0 379.7
5500 32 37 393.0 413.2
6000 32 39 398.7 457.9
6500 32 44 382.7 474.4
7000 32 56 370.8 495.6
7500 32 65 340.3 485.3
8000 30 71 No reading taken - back pressure considered too high to hold engine at this speed even for a few seconds.
All figures as measure on Superflow 701 engine dyno - no ancilliaries - gross output (subtract 15-20bhp for in-car figures).
.Engine spec: 7.5:1, EECIV plenum, 2wd exhaust manifold (with Reyland external wastegate adapter), GT30 0.70 a/r compressor housing, full roller bearing turbo, T6 + eight 803 injectors (WRC manifold). Back pressure measured in exhaust manifold between engine and turbo (intermediate section).
0.82 a/r turbine housing
RPM Bst BP Torque BHP
3000 08 04 199.7 116.9
3500 28 15 360.5 242.7
4000 32 20 386.3 293.1
4500 32 21 404.9 348.7
5000 32 24 394.9 374.7
5500 32 26 394.4 414.7
6000 32 28 395.1 450.7
6500 32 32 389.6 483.7
7000 32 35 376.3 501.5
7500 32 40 341.3 485.4
0.63 a/r turbine housing
RPM Bst BP Torque BHP
3000 13 10 238.8 138.1
3500 32 24 389.4 259.2
4000 32 27 388.3 297.5
4500 32 31 404.1 345.0
5000 32 34 397.0 379.7
5500 32 37 393.0 413.2
6000 32 39 398.7 457.9
6500 32 44 382.7 474.4
7000 32 56 370.8 495.6
7500 32 65 340.3 485.3
8000 30 71 No reading taken - back pressure considered too high to hold engine at this speed even for a few seconds.
All figures as measure on Superflow 701 engine dyno - no ancilliaries - gross output (subtract 15-20bhp for in-car figures).
Last edited by Mike Rainbird; 08-04-2008 at 09:01 AM.
08-04-2008, 09:09 AM
#73
Engine spec: 7.5:1, EECIV plenum, 2wd exhaust manifold (with Reyland external wastegate adapter), GT30 0.70 a/r compressor housing, full roller bearing turbo, T6 + eight 803 injectors (WRC manifold). Back pressure measured in exhaust manifold between engine and turbo (intermediate section).
0.82 a/r turbine housing
RPM Bst BP Torque BHP
3000 08 04 199.7 116.9
3500 28 15 360.5 242.7
4000 32 20 386.3 293.1
4500 32 21 404.9 348.7
5000 32 24 394.9 374.7
5500 32 26 394.4 414.7
6000 32 28 395.1 450.7
6500 32 32 389.6 483.7
7000 32 35 376.3 501.5
7500 32 40 341.3 485.4
Paul Ripleys?
08-04-2008, 09:30 AM
#78
.I can't see how it will get heated, as these are factual figures gained from back to back testing of the same engine on the same dyno, with just the exhaust housing being swapped over.
The 0.63 a/r is a fantastic housing for a road engine, but it doesn't produce the figures that are being claimed. However, Karl was right about the fact that there was only a small disparity between the two, which I had seriously doubted could be possible, given the back pressure readings
.
Last edited by Mike Rainbird; 08-04-2008 at 09:31 AM.
08-04-2008, 10:11 AM
#80
) - the only difference being, you wouldn't be able to hold the load site you were measuring very easily on the road (would require left foot breaking etc).