Hi all,

After nearly two years of regret for selling my S1 RST which took me 3 years to restore ive decided i want an Rs again. The escort cos is the only way foward for me.

Im planning on buying one towards the winter of 2008 (once ive finnished my current project).

My first question is which model to go for. Im certain id like a lux car with the leather. But which is best small of big turbo.
I should probably add here i wont be 'crusing' in it or racing scoobies in it. I would possibly think about adding a bit of power at some point though? Also im aware 90% of cossies have already been modofied at some point

Second question is colour im torn between red or imperial blue. though id really love a black one. As you can see id like your thoughts on this so please say. Im not keen on the mallard green or silver.

Also any other advise would be appreciated as although ive been interested for many years, realistically im new to cossies.

regards Lee

 

depends what power you want.over 300bhp and you will want a big turbo version.if not then the small turbo is far more responsive and driveable.
i wouldnt worry too much on colour.you are better going for what is the cleanest you can get for your money.

 

I've asked mystelf that question about a year ago.

I always wanted an Escort Cosworth, but I've had a Saff 4x4 at that moment, and I knew the turbolag annoyed me very much.

So I've tested both car's (big turbo and small turbo) Both in standard form, and both chipped (app. 275 Bhp)

My conclusion was:

The big turbo car is very laggy (big turbo lag) but if the turbo comes in, than you get a big punch in your back (for a few sec. because it runs out of rev's and you have to change the gear). Big turbo without chip is very slow IMO. And 99% of the big turbo car's are always tuned (because it's very easy) or have been tuned in the past.

The small turbo (chipped or not) has a less laggy behaviour. It's more fun to drive, but I never had the feeling it's is that quick because you don't feel the big punch in your back. It goes very smooth.

I've driven the small and big turbo after each other. And my decision was: the small turbo.

It's just more fun to drive, less laggy, and the best Cosworth engine ever made. Almost all the small turbo's are lux car's with full options and most of them are never tuned (no big spec's).

Mine is tuned by Wolf, I have a Magnex exhaust, K&N panel filter, -31 actuator, uprated fuel pump, Hold's 1.6 Bar of turbo boost etc. It's pretty fast, but the only thing I miss is the big punch in the back

And you can contact MSD for more small turbo tuning information

My mallard (one of the best colours IMO) small turbo:

 

Big turbo esc cos in imperial blue are like rocking horse shit mate.
If you want a gloss black one its gonna have to be a big turbo. Although these are rare aswell. Ash black comes in both small and big turbo
Everyone knows the small turbo is for girls

 

i used to have a t35 equipped stage 3 saph, which due to the age of the chip was very laggy i thought - no real boost below 3500rpm.

When i started to look for an escort, I wanted one of the youngest cars that I could find, so that ruled out the big turbo anyway. I also wanted as near a standard car as possible - ended up buying one built in december 1995 with just a k&n and mongoose exhaust plus hybrid turbo with 360 degree bearing etc. I've since added a few bits n pieces but nothing to increase performance - i like it as it is, and i didn't buy it for its performance

Do i miss the punch of a big turbo? Yep, as said above, the escort has no real "kick in the back" like the larger cars do, but the escort is so much more responsive and nicer to drive with no lag (full boost at 2200rpm or there abouts) although it runs out of puff at about 5500rpm. Small turbo cars also have a longer initial overboost - 8 seconds rather than 4 for the bigger turbo model.

I recently did 400 miles in one week in it on one tank of fuel, all A & B roads and I wasn't driving it lightly either.

 

Just buy the mintest one you can find there are now tuning options for both models

 

Hi thanks for the replys today, maby i'll have some more now everyones home from work.

So from what i can see so far the small turbo seems to be the most favoured, but then again that "kick in the back" is very appealing.

As it stands im still im favour of the large turbo.
1. because it would only be a toy, not an everyday driver.
2. in a jeremy clarkson sort of way of thinking...."big turbo" sounds better.

On the other hand i can see why a few have said just find the cleanest one you can, as im probably more likley to get a "good'un" if i have no preferences.

As for colour, how about a white car, guess its a sign im missing the S1.

Maby i need to set some criteria:

I DONT want a car thats been heavily modified, ie massive bhp or custom interior dvds ps2's ice install in boot etc

Im not overly fussed about mileage, as long as its not knackered. some history would be nice, ie rosc and service logs

I plan to use it at weekends and maby the odd track day.

It must be clean but does not have to be concourse

Id imagine id want to up the power at some stage but i wouldnt think over 400?

Id like to hear more from people who have owned both models, see what they say.

thanks for all your imput so far, keep it coming

regards lee

 

What is your budget going to be?

 

I havn't put much thought to budget.

Ive seen some for 10k, but i recon they have seen major abuse, and some at 20k, though this is concourse teritory right?

So I'm thinking around Ł15k.

I dont mind doing some work to it, hell all the other cars ive had as toys ive bought as barely savalagble scrapheaps, so this will make a change to buy a 'running, working' car that just needs a bit of love and polish.

My current project, a 1949 Beetle should fund this outright, an identical one to mine sold for $50,000 last month, so thats about Ł26,000.

 

So im a girl am i

 

one thing i can say is that if you don't know much about them, then take someone with you who does.

I have a white 1996 n reg one, and i think its a good allrounder, although the brakes are marginal at best even on a standard car, so if you do up the power, sort the brakes too.

 

the brakes are shit on both size turbos, stg 1 and you will be warping std brakes like they are made of milk bottle tops ..

I used to slate T25 Escorts, girls cars, shit power, no tuning options etc, slow. Then I drove one By FAR the nicest Cossie to drive std and stg 1, best options, all the good features already there, closed loop, coil packs etc..... Don't belive the hype, small turbos now have a much broader range of tuning options , my car being the MSD test mule .

Colours? in no order-
Great colours= Jewel violet, white, black (ash and gloss) Imperial blue, petrol blue, aubergine.

OK colours = Polaris, Mallard,

Don't like- Red, Auralis, any horrid non std colour like that stupid flip paint.

All IMHO of course

 

Should be looking at a pretty dam nice motor for around the 15k mark mate. You need to just have a good look around and test drive a good few in diff forms, a small turbo std and and a one running around 300, then the same in big turbo and see what you like best. Really great cars and you wont look back mate, i love mine to bits, its a ST running around the 300 mark prob a bit less, but still well quick enough for a good bit of spirited driving! as for colour Ash black imperial blue or silver. Mark

 

Big turbo small turbo both awesome cars drive them both and you decide.
I have a big turbo with over 400BHP bit laggy yes but the power puts a smile on your face.



Dave

 

thanks guys. im still swayed buy the big turbo.
so what its got as bit of lag, a lot of poeple mention turbo lag, i remember my sisters ex explaining how his 55 plate focus tdi had lag (bollox theyre varieble vain). i think a lot of people use the word loosley!?

I mean yes i can understand in a race those few seconds count, but come on it cant be that horrible, can it??? maby im wrong, ive never driven either car!! i think id rather sacfirice instant throttle responce for the kich when it does fire up!

Arrg ive seen loads for sale tonight, i would have had the money if i hadnt have built my house!

I guess driving them would be the best way for me to find out. But i dont think many people would want me to drive their 'baby'. I'll be 25 next year, so im still a nipper really, though this will tie in nicley with insurance, should be a bit less painful.

Ok so does anyone have a list of the numbers produced in each colour?

regards Lee

 

Ive driven both and i much prefer the small turbo personally. You have to remember they are a more developed car with a few improvements over the the big turbo models, better head and block, oil sprays, better engine management (and just as tunable as the BT now really), coil packs, side impact bars. I also found that the later ST's had a better spec, twin airbags, heated screen, aircon etc, although obviously thats done to the first owners option list. Also i noticed that most ST i viewed were in a better overall condition than the BT's for some reason, but im sure that was more than likely a coincidence. Unless it is harder to find a decent BT than a decent ST, i dont know.

Both great cars though that suit different people and how they are going to drive the car. With the same power, they will perform the same, with some even saying the small turbo is quicker to 120 ish due to the way the turbo acts. All marginal though i suppose.

Have a drive of a few, and as said get the best one you can for your money. A good service history with reasonable miles will help re-sale when you come to sell.

As for colour, i wouldnt compromise on the the condition just if its your first choice colour mate. I was lucky with mine as i found the right car in my first choice colour only a few miles round the corner from me.

 

yes thats one thing i have overlooked so far, saftey.

the st now seems a bit more appealing due to the things you have just mentioned.
those refinements such as heated screen passenger airbag are good

i guess the st's you saw were in better condition due to them being younger cars and not that bt's are more likley to be thrashed?

Id like to thank everyone for their advise. I think for now im happy to keep an open mind, like many of you said find the best you can for the money. im going to start a new post weighing up the tuning between st and bt, as this is where i think i need some more advise, or maby its convincing that id be better with a small turbo.

 

imo the st is a nice car for shopping or letting the mrs drive
but it wasn't for me really, everything about it was excellent though
the condition,the spec, the handling but the peanut sized turbo
was no match for the bt one i have now,and if i keep the revs up or
change down early,i don't have a problem with lag

 

thats the bestest answer ive had.

though the way im thinking now is, get a st for all the better qualities and give it a big turbo etc under the bonnet. surley the best of both worlds then!?

 

Not in my opinion mate. Again it depends what you prefer and theres no way of telling really until you drive both.

If you mean buying an ST and converting it back to BT with BT management then your better off buying the BT to start with mate, as doing that to a ST model would be a step backwards in my opinion.

You really need to have a drive of both and youll know straight away which one suits you better. People who said they'd never have a ST often change their minds after a drive and vice versa with the BT's.

 

Again, IF you go for the forthcoming MSD EEC IV 350 Bhp conversion, on a T34.48 my car was making 25psi at 2500Rpm ..... Hardly lost any response on a Std small turbo car, but gained a big fat midrange and a lot of top end .... lots of gain for VERY little loss of response..

 

do MSD have a web site i could look at to see this particular conversion?

thanks for all your comments

 

when this is proven on a few cars, I would prob go ST to be honest

 

big turbo....get ANTI LAG fitted....problem solved.....big power, no lag....jobs a gud un..

 

you still thinking of seling frosty?

 

It is still in development mate, I will keep everyone posted on the progress - My car is the test mule, and it will be going back shortly to finalize the conversion

 

lee,changing a st to bt is pricey especially if you have just parted with
strong money,i think it may be a good idea to try this small turbo
conversion and see what you think,
iirc aswell the service intervals were longer on the st than the bt
dunno if its me but its strange in a good way looking at the differance
between both engines

 

i've had quite a few e mails mate offering px on a variety of different motors, nearly chopped it in against a 911 carrera last week but after driving it changed my mind, very nice car and it looked the dogs, but, the cossie would absolutely eat it alive, so, think i'm going keep it, there's just something about it........

 

why not px for THE original 911....my 1949 Beetle. tho its only got 24 hp and cable brakes

 

yep, last of the line small turbo's had 10k service intervals.