Hi everyone,
Im new to the forum and hoping for some advice. Im currently working on a series 2 rs turbo for a friend but I cant get to the bottom of this issue.
The story behind it is, its been to multiple garages and had many parts throw at it, new pump, tank, fuel distributor rebuild etc but they were unable to get it to start.

Since getting my hands on it ive been able to get it running but not without some problems in the background. The main one is, it will not run with the EHA/pressure actuator connected. If I plug the eha in while the engine is running it just dies, like someone has turned the ignition off, no spluttering or anything like that.
The EHA plug has 8v on when disconnected but 1v when connected. The resistance of the EHA is within spec so it isnt shorted or anything. The wiring has been repaired in some places and has had multiple replacement plugs which I will be tackling next weekend to make sure everything is good, so far it looks to be.
Any input in the meantime would be highly appreciated though.

Thanks in advance

 

from OAP pete fully up on the Bosch "K & KE system.....first do not crank the engine untill you have done these checks....i see you write some wiring repairs have been done...with new wiring plugs....you see these engines are good starters from cold...ie even with the "Black" injection ECU disconnected..you see 4 Sparks on plugs....cold start injector sprays neat Fuel into manifold..so the engine bursts into life. but stops after it has used up the fuel in manifold...are you getting that ??...i fear not..as the cold start system is hard wired seperate from the KE system...i would check all 4 very important ones underneath the rear of engine...there colure coded..ie "yellow" coolent sensor" [ this controls the pressure actuator"]..wire colurs..Brown / Brown & Green...."Brown plug " Thermo timer wire colure..Black & yellow.....Brown & White...if these 2 wires have been swaped over at all...then the Timer WILL be damaged 100%...." Black plug" cold start air device..wires..Brown ....Black Red.....Brown....." Blue plug "...cold start injector...wires " Black yellow"...Brown & white " these 4 plugs are very very important to be on the correct sensor....do check this before doing anything else........as ive said if the cold start sensor " Brown plug" have been swaped over [ just this plug only} then get back to me as will tell you how to Test the Timer is OK....if your not confident in circuit testing...leave it to a old school Auto sparks as i am your end.....last thing ....Yelow Temp sensor ohms check...cold "15-30c"...1.3k - 3.6k ohms......hot 80c...250- 390 ohms....best at moment to help.....Peter

 

Thanks Pete
Yes the timer is damaged as it was plugged into the air device connector so im ordering a replacement. Ive tested all the other connectors and checked wiring etc so everything is plugged in where it should be now.
I did order a replacement ECT sensor but it turned out to be the wrong one. The resistance of the new sensor was good so I plugged it in so see if it would start with the sensor reading ambient temperature (around 20 degrees C) but it never.
I can get it to start without the cold start injector by simply priming the fuel system and pressing down on the air flap to squirt fuel in.
I am confident with circuit testing etc so thats not a problem. What concerns me is how the engine just shuts off when I plug the actuator in, no spluttering like its been starved of fuel, is this normal for these systems?
Thanks

 

OK you have tested the coolent sensor...thats fine...when you get the new timer do check each colure wire is on the right terminal...on the Timer you should see a leter " G & W "....G.will be original ford colure "Brown & white ".... W will be " Black & yellow ".........Pressure actuator colurs Brown & Black / yellow...leave that plug off for the moment as with the new timer it will nice to see the 5th injector come in...ie burst into life right away..sound on all 4 cylinders...but yes cut out i would expect.. lets take it stage buy stage at moment...if dont see "W & G on your new timer as even back in the day...i remember some were not...so will tell you how to find out if required later.. will cover the actuator later........Peter

 

I'll test each terminal to body of thermo switch anyway just to be certain and check the wires are in the right place. The plug on the pressure actuator has been changed aswell and the colours are different. Does the polarity of that circuit matter? Im wondering if the 8v may be getting pulled down by the pressure actuator itself if either of those pins have a path the ground? Seems strange how it shows 8v until plugged in, then 1v, unless the ECU is clever enough to give a BIAS voltage on the circuit when unplugged?
thanks

 

OK plese bear in mind im 82 years old now...slow on the keys on home computor...and have now " Shaky " hands" so have to check everything i write..and edit if required before sending. OK on the Thermo- timer ...it has one terminal on it That iS NOT FUSED its so important...wrong terminal burns out the contact points inside the Timer..so if your not certain... with the new Timer before fitting with your meter check for continunity on each terminal to the metal caseing of the new sensor...ie both terminals will be negative earth once fitted in engine block...so now pop the sensor into a Pot..just a little water to cover the sensor...but not as High enough to reach the terminals..bit tricky..can be done..with your meter note again each terminal is showing closed circuit..ie both earth to caseing...slowly heat the water..the first terminal that goes open circuit....note it...thats the one the Ford loom colure " Brown / white "...OK...must be correct..so with that when cranking now with a cold engne the 5th cold start injector will spray High pressure Fuel...i would take the injector out and see for your self..pop the injector into a can / bottle for safty...diconnect the ignition coil as well. as just want to check for a good spray...if its good reconnect coil..try to start now..all well it should be on the button..burst in life..sound OK..but engine stop after 3 seconds...but your getting somewhere..more to write then on the pressure actuator...allways bear in mind continual cranking activats that outher terminal on Thermo sensor..to shut off the 5th injector...stopping a explosion that could happen with all the Fuel in manifold...Sensor can take up to 10 mins to reset... hope you understand all.... Peter

 

Thanks again Pete. I appreciate your expertise on these cars, you truly are a guru.
Once ive replaced the switch, I will test and report back. It wont be until the weekend though at the earliest.

 

OK but do test the new sensor in water first so important...as the water warms up the very first Terminal to go open circuit is the "Brown & white " wire in the Ford loom to the ECU.....Just for your info the outher terminal is in fact on circuit 50 ..thats engine starter turning....Peter

 

Ok will do thanks. Yeah i did know that. The black/yellow wire also goes to the fuel ecu. Is that to just tell the ecu the engine is cranking?

 

Yes correct....Pin 24 Black ECU...Tied up also with the" Pressure activator " ..... Peter

 

Ive fitted another time switch today and now the car starts and runs from cold without having to mess around.
I tested the yellow coolant sensor and its showing 15.3 M ohms, so its dead. Problem is, I substituted that sensor with a new one from a series 1 before and it still wouldnt run with the pressure actuator connected. Obviously the sensor wasn't fitted so it was only reading ambient temperature but the engine had only been running for 30 seconds or so before trying it anyway.
Is there anything else other than the coolant sensor that could cause it to shut down when the pressure actuator is connected?

Thanks

 

OK yes the coolent sensor ..should be 1.3- to 3.6 cold....this controls the pressure actuator....are you able to start and hold the RPMs to say 2000....then get someone to plug in actuator...i feel you may see the engine run very very rich..stink in the exhaust..ok try this..i feel the actuator may have seen full 12v at some point...this will damage it...has the actuator been replaced..any history there..works on the "By - metal princible.......you said you had a new metering unit ??...was the actuator new ?............lets remember also....the actuator must see a good temp sensor....so may be wait till you have sensor....keen to know if it goes into full rich mixture when pluged in....Peter..........also make sure Black ECU HAS POWER....ie....ignition on Pin 1....live 12v.....Pin 2 earth negative....you will see 1 long row of terminals....one short row....its the long row you need...both 1 & 2 up one end......sorry i keep editing...thinking ECU could be dead

 

I'll give that a go but it wont be until next weekend now when I go back to the car.
The fuel distributor was sent away to be rebuilt by a previous mechanic that tried to get the car running. It looks like the actuator was sent with it because its been marked with yellow paint on the adjustment screw on the back. Ive also checked the resistance of the actuator and that was ok.

 

OK...16 to 21 ohms...actuator

 

Yes it was within spec, I cant remeber the exact resistance though. Does thay rule out the actuator being faulty or can it fail in other ways?

 

only if the pressure screw has been messed with...yellow sealer on screw was factory...is there voltage on that plug all the time now...is the Black ECU damaged...when you get the new water yellow sensor...there should be no voltage at that plug till you start from cold...sure you have but make sure actuator plug wires...Brown & Black/yellow.......

 

With the ignition on there is 8v at the pressure actuator when unplugged. If I back probe the pressure actuator connector it shows 8v until plugged in then 1v when plugged in
The wires have been messed with on the actuator but they do lead back to the correct colours. Does the polarity matter?

 

no polarity does not matter....wonder if the Black ECU is faulty...that dropping back to 1v...OK...but should be zero when fully Hot....there seems to be High voltage there as soon as plugged in...going to have to wait till you have new sensor...i fear the Black ECU may be faulty..do check power as said.......in normal running the pressure actuator is dead...waiting for the water sensor to it tell it ie...[.ohms has dropped water colder now ]to operate as soon as the starter motor is operating.

 

I did wonder about the black ecu myself to be honest. When I started looking at the car the ecu was just loose behind the battery, suggesting someone has either replaced it and not screwed it back incase it didn't work or maybe even had it tested

 

[QUOTE=OAP Pete;6840392]no polarity does not matter....wonder if the Black ECU is faulty...that dropping back to 1v...OK...but should be zero when fully Hot....there seems to be High voltage there as soon as plugged in...going to have to wait till you have new sensor...i fear the Black ECU may be faulty..do check power as said.......in normal running the pressure actuator is dead...waiting for the water sensor to it tell it..ohms changed......next starter operation ohms alter....then increased pressure

 

Just something i want you to do next time at car....yes your getting new yellow water sensor...fit that...then do something different..... unplug the Fifth injector...now crank over it should not start whats so ever "OK yes "....as all fuel is shut off. only try once. OK it does not start...... now connect back up 5th injector this time it will burst into life..sound OK..then run out of fuel and stop....it should stop quite quickly...thats what i want to hear...but if it continues to run....then could be pressure actuator "open " on its own now...keeping it running....may be its had high voltage at it in the past...as i understand you purchased as non-running...just something i would do if i was there...be good to hear it use the small amount petrol sprayed into manifold...then stop after 2/3 seconds..then we move on from there.....ie...metering unit Fault...actuator fault not returning to its closed postion due to the "overheating of the Bi-metal function ...1 or more even injectors leaking fuel into manifold....but i think you have done the leak-down test..ie...all injectors out still connected to there pipes...relay bridged. 87 & 30.[ no ignition on ]...full pressure now running round the system...no fuel should be seen coming from the injectors at all. lets confirm this above ....Peter

 

Im having trouble getting the correct yellow sensor for it right now.
Without the filth injector working it will not start unless I prime the system by bridging pins 30 and 87 and push down on the air flap a few times to introduce fuel. So ill get the same symptoms unplugged as I would when the time switch didn't work.
Won't the car run on anyway because the MFI system is working with the pressure actuator disconnected? Unless you mean try with the actuator connected?

 

I may have confused things hear....yes i understand you have been pushing down the flap a few times...but i dont want you to do that...i want to hear it start on the Timer and 5th injector...so if that all OK first..i want it to burst into life OK..sound good..BUT should stop after 2/3 seconds....dont touch metering Flap....its the bursting into life....then stopping after 2/3 seconds you want hear.. actuator plug NOT plugged in...if it keeps running...then we want to no why ??...hope understood. Peter

 

I started it from cold earlier without touching anything but the key and it started perfect and kept running with the pressure actuator disconnected

 

Then its wrong...its getting fuel ..keeps running...so that should not be happening...actuator is open then...so if you go for a drive..what happens when it needs then the weaker mixture ?...should flood...too much fuel..

 

So you're thinking the actuator itself is faulty and when plugged in it is being closed? Should I be checking the current draw of the actuator with ignition on?

i forgot to mention. I put a test light across the terminals for the actuator and it lit up dimly, suggesting that the 8v didn't disappear, (I didn't have my multimeter connected at this point though). So as the voltage drops to 1v when plugged in to the actuator, could that suggest a high current draw?

Could I possibly adjust the screw on the back of the actuator to get it where I need it? It doesnt look like anyone has messed with it in the past though.

 

You see i can only deal with how "Bosch " made the system....the actuator acts like a old school "choke" on cars....needs more pressure of fuel on cold start...but reduces pressure on warming up....what i feel has happened the screw you see in the actuator has been [ and come across this back in the day ] turned right up to give much more pressure...those wanting more performance....but the idle will never be right..to reset the screw is a pain without pressure test equipment...etc...so at the moment it starts without actuator...need to road test ...how is the drive...how is the idle...its set up for High boost...High performance..bet thats what has happened in the past. to put it back to standard...needs new actuator...water temp..[ well your getting that ] and hope the Black ECU is OK....because as i see it..could almost need no 5th injector to start ?...not sure there..think your saying has helped ?....Peter

 

It would never start when the cold start injector wasn't being turned on, unless I introduced fuel another way. Do you happen to know the part number for the actuator and yellow temp sensor? Im having trouble finding either of them

 

Part numbers nowadays...cant help...but plenty of owners have renewed the Temp sensor i do no as thats a regular item......not the actuator though...sure someone on the site will have one... so it still needed the 5th injector.....Peter

 

Yeah it needed the 5th injector to start it, no matter how long I cranked it without it, it wouldnt go.

 

Finally got back round to the rs. I managed to get another yellow sensor and now the car runs with the pressure actuator plugged in. Problem now is, from cold it will start on the 5th injector then die. Ive adjusted the mixture as best as I can at the moment and will try again from cold tomorrow.
The yellow sensor i got was used and tested about 2.5k ohms at ambient temperature (about 15 degrees C). Is it possible that the sensor range isnt good enough therefore not fueling correctly for a cold start? As you know these sensors are very hard to get now.
Thanks

 

Thats a good reading 2.k ohms about mid range for cold at moment...as we are in a heat wave to moment....so your getting the signs now of the Presure actuator not responding....i suggest you keep it running till up to temperature....and get it to idle as best you can....as someone may have been playing with the Co adjustment....there is a way to get the Co happy with your engine....if while the engine is at idle...just push down the metering flap 1MM...ONLY...if it trys to stall...then turn Co adjustment clockwise a little a time...does the idle speed pick up...that tells you its to weak...if you end up with a nice idle....you will no if you go to far as...a push down again 1MM....it will be to rich...your hear the engine not change..but not stall.......re - cap....engine idle....push down 1MM...engine speeds up...still to weak....push down 1 MM...engine should show no respons...so about spot on without Co meter...all above with a Hot engine.....best i can help with hear. Peter

 

Do i make the adjustments with the pressure actuator connected or disconnected?

 

leave it connected as its not important at moment....but do get the engine up to running Temperature.....you see my concerns going back a little...once the Cold start timer was sorted out....it started you said fine.....but did not cut out right away as it should have done....so where was it getting fuel from....im sure you said you did a leak down Test on all injectors...ie...all out with pipes still on...all 4 injectors in 4 containers...relay bridged 30 / 87...pump running now...all 4 injectors must be Dry...no..no..dripping..i assume you did....thats why i suspected the pressure actuator had been messed with...i know nothing of the History of your car...only that the Timer had been damaged. ....so as it is at moment....starting fine...stops after useing up the fuel from 5th injector....so is the ECU not now sending a voltage to the actuator ?...or the actuator cant respond..it should be adjust the pressure..thats why i thought may be previous owners messing with everything ?.... so if you can get a good idle with the Co as ive said...with ignition timing correct.....also idle bleed screw at throttle manifold housing. pressure actuator may have had 12v put at it ?...who knows....actuator ohms 16 / 21 ohms at pins...the actuator internal adjustment is made via the "Bi-metal " system...so once cooled down reverts to preset pressure..you might when cold only check the voltage at the 2 pin plug with the plug connected...whats it like....if OK..never be 12v..weather at moment be much lower as coolent sensor controls this ....not easy this as i guess one does not know whats been going on re - previous owners.. sorry for delay in getting back...not well at moment. Peter

 

Hi,
sorry I haven't posted back, i haven't been at the car for a while now.
I did manage to get it all running but then it decided to pack in again.
Do you happen to know what voltage should be at all the components?
For example the TPS only has 9v ish, does this sound right?

Thanks

 

OK ...Well the 3 wires on the TPS...brown is earth...one other is 8volt with the ignition on and plugged in...[ so you will have to bare back the wire to test ]....the other wire with meter volts change as throttle moved...[ again wire bare back to test ].... BUT Throttle switch will never stop the engine to start..that TPS is tied up with the Silver Ignition ECU...as well as the Black ECU..to retard the Timing if Pinking accurs on full throttle.....so plays no part in you say " not starting "....these cars with EVEN the Black ECU disconnected...will start from Cold...as 5th injector which is hard wired loom sprays neat Fuel in manifold...its what happens 3/4 seconds after ...then Black ECU takes over ....ie... starter cranking 50 circuit would have given Voltage [ varies ] re - water yellow sensor to pressure actuator to increase pressure to keep running untill warmed up...the actuator is "self resetting " once voltage goes on the warm up....again Yellow water sensor informs Both ECUs of a Hot engine....Make sure Pin 1 of the Black ECU is live on Ignition...colure Black / green....best i can help. oap pete