Hi All require some assistance in various areas

Front TCA Ball joint

Anyone attempt to rebuild or restore a the front TCA ball joint. So wondering if the old tired one can be pressed out and a new pressed In. I saw a post years ago asking something similar just can't find it. Our country does not supply the 4x4 tca in our market and imports are costly. So looking at inexpensive alternative if can be done.

Front ARB

Has anyone done a sleeved conversion for the front ARB and bush support alternative, when using 28mm bushes on a 26mm front 4x4 ARB

Suspension springs

Please help with some spring related data between 2wd & 4x4 2.0 and v6 models if their are differences

Fronts
Diameter
length
no of coils including top and bottom rings
no of coils between top and bottom rings
Spring rate
Drive comfort: soft medium hard

Rears
Diameter
length
no of coils including top and bottom rings
no of coils between top and bottom rings
Spring rate
Drive comfort: soft medium hard

Side drive Shafts

Need some help with rear side drive shafts

One end has 5 star markings
one end has shorter teeth on the tip
one shaft is shorter than the other

Need to know what end is left and right and which end faces inner and outer.












CV Joint

the cv joint Inner race has 2 flat end surfaces however, on the one end The teeth seem to be worn down or broader. Is this machined or due to wear? Will send a pic later

How far is worn down on ball bearing and cage on a set of German lobro cv sets.

how far is worn if there is signs of wear on inner race


Cheers

 

There is some info on the tca ball joints in the project thread of my 4x4 Sapphire on page 4.

Regarding the drive shafts, the right one is longer than the left. As far as I know there is no inside or outside part of the shaft and also the CV joints are the same for inside and outside.

 

if u fit 4x4 springs in 2wd the front sits higher then it should eg if its say 40mm drop it must only drop 20mm ive had that trouble myself when i was sold a set of new apex springs as 2wd the car never sat right always arse down so changed them to 2wd set and it sits mint

 

Thanks Marc

I did some measuring on the end on both sides and found different results

Star side end - the outer tooth is shorter and on the non- star side end the outer tooth is longer. The mid tooth and inner tooth section is size matched.

To give reference

Star side end
shorter outer tooth - Circlip - mid-tooth- circlip - inner tooth

non star side end
Longer outer tooth - Circlip - mid-tooth- circlip - inner tooth

Which side faces outwards to the wheel and which side faces towards the diff. Or does it not really matter as long as its the same for both LHS & RHS. I would guess the star side end would be facing the wheel end.

Cheers

 

I don’t think it would matter which side goes where, not even if LHD and RHS are the same. I would think it is just tolerances from machining, where they started from one side.

I will probably be fitting some new CV joints to a shaft on my own car on the weekend, so I will have a look myself.

 

thanks Marc I'm reading through your posts there

So I'm procuring a xr4x4 ARB, I think 26mm with very used TCA with pinch bolt ball joints that look perished. I can't buy those new here. I want to use the ARB with the xr4x4 TCA and 4x4 cross member in a 2wd setup.

I was thinking to press out the old tattered XR4x4 pinchbolt ball joints and pressfit a generic and suitable screwnut type ball joint into the xr4x4 TCA. I would be using standard 2wd abs sapp hub knuckles (castle nut tightened) tobretain the wheel geometry. I'm not sure how the roll center would re-act but I'm hoping by not much.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried this level of engineering and setup.

Later when I'm ready to do my v6 4x4 conversion I already have 80% of my suspension fitted. The xr4x4 hubs I have but are in a poor state that needs rebuild. Then I would procure new suitable 4x4 pinchbolt pin type ball joints to press in the TCA to match up with the XR4x4 hub knuckle.
Note also procuring a set of poly bushes that can be reused

for the 26mm ARB to fit into the TCA polybush I'm going to use a thicker sleeved insert over the arm.

I had a set of polybushes made up for total R1400. Which is around 70 pounds for UK folk.

Rear set, main, inner, outer, and rear ARB
front set. Inner and outer tca

Sets to still procure: front ARB, front shock mounts, rear spring mount

and advise the ball joints mods for front TCA welcomed

Cheers

 

If you want to go 4x4 in the future I would already start with the full 4x4 setup, as mixing 2wd and 4x4 parts is not going to work. The arb is a different length and I think that should also be combined with the correct crossmember and correct hubs. There is more to worry about than just the roll center, the caster and position of the wheel in the arch is not going to be correct when you combine 2wd and 4x4 parts. So you should already use the 4x4 crossmember, steering rack and hubs from the start. Besides that I would use the Cosworth 4x4 hubs. They have a better roll center than the XR ones and don't push the wheel out of the arch like the XR ones do. I would also use the 28 mm Cosworth arb instead of the 26 mm XR one, although later XR's might have had the 28 mm one as well.
In your situation, where you don't want to alter anything with the TCAs, I would just buy a good set of TCAs and not be messing around with the ball joint.

But why do you want to go 4x4 anyway? In my opinion the V6 doesn't have that much power that it benefits from 4x4.

To come back on the rear driveshafts. I've just had mine apart and the splines are exactly the same length on both ends of the driveshaft. It also doesn't matter if they aren't as there is lots of movement available in the CV joints to compensate for the small difference you have on the splines.

 

RE THE 4X4 SUSPENSION SETUP.
Importing big component WRT weight length height etc out of the UK is very expensive so I'm looking at alternatives I can do in our country that is affordable.

I have the 4x4 x-member and 4x4 steering components. I have xr4x4 hubs and not cossy 4x4 ones. this is what I have and going to use later

The Xr4x4 ARB and TCA I purchased recently were going for 40 pounds on ebay and so I offered 35 pounds. Shipping and import duties together around 80 pounds that surmounted around 2600 ZAR for me which makes a dent.

What I have now is a standard 2wd 28mm sapph ARB. But this cannot be used with the 4x4 X-member. Hence the purchases of the above

Note 1time powder coating requiments and poly bushes following for ARB and TCA's. Not going to fork out cash again for this

RE ABS CONVERSION FROM STANDARD SAPPH DRUM BRAKES

I bought a complete rear end that has the ABS setup to swap over from the drum brake setup.

I also bought a set of standard 2wd abs hub knuckles That uses the castle nut ball joint to complete the abs drive train brake setup. I have all the abs components besides a set of new sensors that need to be replaced. Cossy 2wd or 4x4 parts are not available to buy in our country so I have to mix and match a bit to try and make it work.

RE THE V6 engine OPTION

I have a 2.9 v6 cossy BOB, 2.9 xr 4x4 sump, front diff also off 2.9 v6 as well as the front drive shafts. This connected to a 2.9 v6 5 speed 4x4 NTYPE gearbox . So I've kept everything from one model together. I just dont have the ARB and TCAS. Also i have the correct oil filter arm and internal pickup for this setup .This engine is only coming later after a complete teardown and rebuild

Still needing an appropriate flywheel for 2.9 v6 BOB but I'm not concerned.

Once I've completed my build. Plan is to run the stock 2.0 pinto carby mounted on the 4x4 X-member with another 2wd NType gearbox. Don't worry I already have the 4x4 steering component's and the 4x4 2.0 engine mounts to put the pinto ontop of the X-member.

RE THE 4x4 TCA 2WD BALL JOINT CONVERSION.

I'm going to give this a bash and see how this works. So once I've recieved the Xr4x4 ARB and TCA. Going to press out the old ball joint and look for something replaceable and swappable just on the ball joint part. There has to be something I can find like this that can fit.

 

On this setup I have the standard 2wd sapph 28mm ARB, TCA and non abs hub knuckles connected to 4x4 X-member just purely for roiling around and storage purposes nothing is tightened down.










I want to change this but still using a 2wd setup to use the abs version.

To compare
standard sapph 2wd abs hub knuckle
xr4x4 abs hub knuckle

both have similarities but there are some differences

hubs are same thickness but different in OD size xr4x4 is slightly larger

Same size wheel nut threads

Same size inner hub the 108

xr4x4 has ​​​​​bigger slot or hole for shock strut but the bolt size is the same

mounting holes and position for the brake caliper is the same

The tie rod end holes are the same size but positioning is different

the xr4x4 carrier is larger in height compared to 2wd

both retain ABS sensors

xr4x4 obviously is open to allow for drive shaft to pass through whereas 2wd is covered and retains a nut to hold the drive spindle

Xr4x4 has pinchbolt system and 2wd has castle nut system
The hole on the 2wd appears offset to the carrier whereas the xr4x4 appears centered but cannot be sure
It also appears that the xr4x4 hole sits slightly further away from the carrier. Please can someone confirm to verify my findings





















I would like to mount these on a plain like a piece of flat timber to see the differences accurately.

 

The Type N (I guess you actually mean Type 9) gearbox was mostly found on the 2.8 XR4x4 and only a few on the 2.9. Normally the 2.9 has a MT75 4x4 box, which is a lot stronger than the type 9. The type 9 will struggle with the torque from the BOB and will probably break.

Regarding the ball joints, there is a taper on the hole in the knuckle. So you will need to find something that matches that taper exactly for it to be a tight fit.

 

To compare
standard sapph 2wd abs hub knuckle
xr4x4 abs hub knuckle

both have similarities but there are some differences

hubs are same thickness but different in OD size xr4x4 is slightly larger

Same size wheel nut threads --> Correct

Same size inner hub the 108 --> Correct

xr4x4 has ​​​​​bigger slot or hole for shock strut but the bolt size is the same --> Standard Sierra and 2wd Cosworth have a 45.5 mm thick strut, all 4x4's are 51 mm thick.

mounting holes and position for the brake caliper is the same --> Correct, the mounting holes are the same on all Sierra's, except for the 2wd Cosworth.

The tie rod end holes are the same size but positioning is different --> Correct, all Sierra's use the same tie rod ends

the xr4x4 carrier is larger in height compared to 2wd --> Correct, the 4x4 struts are shorter to compensate for this.

both retain ABS sensors

xr4x4 obviously is open to allow for drive shaft to pass through whereas 2wd is covered and retains a nut to hold the drive spindle

Xr4x4 has pinchbolt system and 2wd has castle nut system --> Correct, where the 2wd has a tapered hole and the 4x4 a straight hole.
The hole on the 2wd appears offset to the carrier whereas the xr4x4 appears centered but cannot be sure --> This is actually one of the things that determine the caster angle and is a reason why 4x4 and 2wd parts should not be mixed as it messes up the driving feel.
It also appears that the xr4x4 hole sits slightly further away from the carrier. Please can someone confirm to verify my findings --> This could be the case. The XR4x4 has a very wide front track, much wider than the 4x4 Cosworth.

 

Thanks Marc. Appreciate your guidance helps me a great deal

What is the standard spring height for the front and rear springs on a 2wd from factory and is there a measure of tension that goes with it?

Cheers

 

Hi Marc

On one of my previous threads I asked if I could use the xr4x4 hub knuckle in 2wd configuration so essentially front drive shaft and inner CV delete and keep the outer spindle

So just this portion below.





Obviously the actual internal cv bearing initially will be emitted as a 2wd application. When running the complete 4x4 setup everything will be reconnected.

Maybe this will better alternative than to try and mix and match tca ball joints
the cv can will be open and hollow maybe could pressfit some sort of blank onto it

to your knowledge do you think there is any risk of the hub popping off while driving?

Does anyone have pics to share on the setup I'm after.

What I'm also trying to achieve is to restore everything once by spending cash for powder coating, new bearings, new seals fasteners any engineering work etc than having to swap over every time.

See like on my build I have almost 2 & sometimes 3 of everything on the drive line

My Inventory

2 gearboxes - 2.0 type 9, 2.9 v6 4x4 type 9

3 rear diffs - 1.8 diff, 2.0 diff, 3.0 diff all open diffs of different ratios

1 front diff v6 xr4x4 was sold as a 2.9 together with the v6 sump (this will be fitted to the BOB)

2 different rear suspension types - for 7inch diff abs and non abs

3 sets of rear side drive shafts. 2 sets lobro bolt in, 1 set tripod push in

1 set of front drive shafts xr4x4

1 front prop shaft

1 main prop shaft

3 types of front hub knuckles - 1.8 2wd non abs, 3.0 2wd abs, 2.9 xr4x4 abs

2 engines - 2.0 pinto carb(runner) 2.9 v6 24 cossy bob(non runner)

2 types of X-members - 2wd with standard single pin engine mount, 4x4 alloy

3 steering racks - standard rack pinion, 2wd hydraulic, 4x4 hydraulic

2 steering drive shaft couplers - 2wd, 4x4

front ARB - standard 2wd sapph 28mm, XR4X4 on route thickness to be verified

front TCA - standard 2wd sapph castle nut, XR4X4 on route, ball joints not in good condition

Rear bushes - 1 set of poly bush inner outer, main and rear arb for rear abs suspension. Still require rear spring mount and diff mount

Front bushes - 1 set poly bush inner & outer for 2wd TCA only. Still require ARB & strut top mount

Struts and springs. - all standard 2wd items, no 4x4 aquired as yet

Pretty elaborate but that's my stock and what I have for the moment as said earlier importing is getting rough on the prices

 

I have no idea on the standard ride height. But the springs will depend on the weight you put on and that will be different in your case anyway. But the closest would be the XR4x4 weight I assume. On fitment there is no difference between 2wd and 4x4 springs anyway. If you fit lowering springs the weight difference doesn't matter that much for the ride height.



Obviously the actual internal cv bearing initially will be emitted as a 2wd application. When running the complete 4x4 setup everything will be reconnected.

Maybe this will better alternative than to try and mix and match tca ball joints
the cv can will be open and hollow maybe could pressfit some sort of blank onto it

to your knowledge do you think there is any risk of the hub popping off while driving? No, that should be fine. A lot of people have converted 4x4 Cosworths to 2wd by taking the driveshafts off (and of course fitting a 2wd gearbox). Some have machined the stub axle to remove the part where the CV joint goes for it to look a bit nicer.

Does anyone have pics to share on the setup I'm after. If you search for it you should be able to find some pictures of a 4x4 to 2wd converted Cosworth with the CV joints machined.

 

So there must be quite a few posts regarding this but I thought to just share my setup

I received this on thursday evening. All the clay from the UK, is the xr4x4 front ARB. Checked it is the 26mm size with 2 x 4x4 TCA.



This is the xr4x4 TCA





The inner Bush is more a rose joint. I would like to know what others do, service it or remove and polybush them?
On inspection it doesn't seem loose and no tears to boot dust covers

How easy is it to service the rose joint and are they better or worse than polyurethane bushes





The condition of the outer bush needs replacing which I have a set of polybush to use. I have some questions regarding this later







The boot is torn and the ball joint doesn't seem to be too loose. Im thinking one of two options before I tear it down

1. Clean out, regrease and replace just the boot, clean and regrease the inner and polybush the outer. Then just give the TCA a spray paint

2. Remove ball joint (similar to what Marc did) remove inner Bush or rose joint and remove outer bush. This then gives me the opportunity to powder coat the TCA. Then rebuild all the control points. I'm still investigating the ball joint end if I can replace this with something aftermarket. There could be some engineering involved as well. I like these screw in type ball joints but possibly may go with the pressfit and circlip on end type

The goal here is to have serviceable components and the fact I would like to powder coat and use a polybush setup
​​​​​​​
Can I use standard 2wd outer TCA bushes on the 4x4 control arm or do they need to be 4x4 bushes as they look the same size?

Can I use the 2wd 28mm main ARB bushes and bracket with the 26mm or do I need to order a 26mm set? Im asking this because it would seem that when you fasten the bracket to the body it clamps down on the bush? This will also aid me on which size poly bush to order

Cheers

 

I would go for option 1. I have never seen an original rose joint in the inner TCA connection. I did read some reviews on the first Cosworth that it was supposed to have this, but there were complaints and Ford apparently changed it to a normal rubber bush. But these arms cannot be from a Cosworth anyway. So I'm not sure if these rose joints are original. Anyway, if they are in good condition I would keep them. They are superior to a poly bush in handling.

For the outer ball joints I would clean and re-grease it and replace the boot if there is no play in there. Having something special made can also make you worry if it will be strong enough. You definitely don't want such a connection to fail while driving!

I don't think you will be able to clamp the arb bush enough to go from 28 to 26 mm. But even if you would, the pressure on the arb would be quite low, so the functioning of the arb would also be not great, as it would be able to move inside the mount.

BTW, can you respond to my questions on the steel diff in your project thread? I'm really puzzled by that diff!

 

Thanks Marc for the support and advice.

Will get around to the diff question. I'm also trying to find some solid info on it, but definitely it is from sierra. I think It has to do with how the sierra were manufactured here in SA under the SAMCOR (South African Motor Corporation) brand

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samcor

Cheers

 

Thanks! I never new the Sierras for South Africa were produced locally. It would be an explanation, although I still find it strange that they changed the design of the casing and not just produced the same design locally.

 

I'm not sure if understand you correctly. The sierra was also produced / manufactured In South Africa. I don't think vehicles were exported from northern hemisphere as a product to be sold in South Africa. Ford SA probably used certain model designs for sure but components were sourced and produced by Ford SA partners from our local market as well as sourcing components from Europe, Britain, Australia etc . at that time.

I picked up a thread where that same diff could be a BorgWarner design / production, but I can't find any detailed history or specs using the diff part numbers. They are both M71 diffs

I think when I open them for a quick inspection might reveal some more secrets

Cheers

 

Interesting. I indeed found some more info using the term M71. The Sierra diffs are not weak, but when running serious power they do fail. Perhaps this steel diff housing would be stronger, although I'm not sure in which way the diffs normally fail. I've seen pictures of the crown wheel and pinion being broken, but also of broken side and differential gears. For the side and differential gears it shouldn't matter how strong the casing is I guess.