ok 88 escort turbo
car was starting but running shit after long time stored,
hot wired fuel pump and drained old fuel from banjo where it joins fuel filter,
added 15 liters new fuel, again ran the pump to clean the old fuel out of lines and then fitted thre new fuel filter, now it wont fire up?
cracked off banjos before and after filter and there is pressure there....
also cleaned plugs ..black before i presume due to old fuel, cleaned the up...no start, checked plugs again they have ni fuel on the,?
i am in australia and the guy at the shop matched up my bosch filter with a ryco...
will check spark tommorow as i am charging battery just to rule that out.i am thinking air in lines somewhere?
any ideas lads?

 

Have you cracked off the lines above the metering head 4 small 11/12mm or whatever they are.

 

Yes I just cracked them off...no fuel at all at those 4 bolts on MFI unit. It must have got air from the fuel filter in the unit?
previously I fitted all new red mfi lines from unit to injectors and started first time.......so how do I bleed the air out?

 

Just remembered something else. The radiator is leaking. So the other times I was starting it it had no coolant in...yesterday after new fuel filter I filled up the coolant as I expected to be running it up to temp.....would the fact it now has coolant in affect the metering head in some way? Just an after thought

 

There is no need to Bleed the system, they self Bleed, these systems run on very High pressure, is the pump damaged re - any "debre"..."rust"..coming through as the tanks rust in the inside, over the years, To test pump pressure this is done at the 5th injector this is on the main pressure line,...remove pipe...rig up pressure gauge..Bridge on pump relay terminals 30 / 87 pump runs all the time, you MUST see 85/90 psi....The reason i write this is with a Fault or not in the metering head, as soon as you crank engine from Cold the 5th injector is on a TOTALY independent circuit, so with pressure sprays neat fuel into manifold...so with 4 good sparks on plugs...it should have burst into life...if only for a 3/4 seconds...then stop...your not getting that ?..im thinking put the old Filter back as a test...also some after market filters have "in & out" as to flow..worth a check. Peter.

 

Thanks Pete.
No the fuel that I flushed thru came out clean...and a lot lighter red in colour that the old crap fuel.
I will try with old filter to eliminate that . It is the correct way around but I didn't fill it with fuel but Has lots pressure when I crack the filter outlet (sprayed me in the face haha). Interesting about the 5th injector. Just had another play. Defiantly fuel going into mfi but not out of the 4 injector lines.
started and ran everytime before I swapped filter and filled coolant.
Stupid question but is there any link between coolant and mfi unit?

 

no link re - water system, there could well be " crud", in the metering head ?....but im coming back to the 5th injector, sure you have checked you have good ignition, the 5th would have spayed neat good fuel into manifold. a test for the 5th injector I would do...disconnect the ignition coil for safety, remove 5th with its pipe still on, pope in a safe container....crank the Cold engine...you MUST see a full high pressure spray. if not anything...get back to me for more tests advise , Peter

 

Thanks Pete I will do that afterr work Tommorow. Thanks for your help. This car is doing my head in. Even if I took it to a "mechanic here in Australia they would say it's not in their book so they don't know haha

 

I haven’t looked at one for years but you can get a air lock. Remove the air filter press the air flap down about half way crank the engine while doing it and you will hear it start to scream as fuel blends through.
you can also try easy start in inlet pipe at throttle body to add something to help fire it up.

Mark

 

Yeah tried the flap while the Mrs was on the key.....nothing. it started and ran yesterday it's got me fucked. Air defo makes sense...all the air from inside the filter had to go somewhere

 

ok ...so today i removed the cold start injector pipe (fom the MFI end as i have a spare) hot wired the fuel pump and fuel came out the end into my bottle...also when cracking off the 14mm connection to the MFI unti there was lots of fuel pressure,
i am assuming that means it would have pressure to the 5th injector however...when i bought the car the seller said there was a thermo timer switch bypass wire under dash ( which i have chased up to the brown wire at the 5th injector, could be grounded under dash when connected..(CAR STARTED AND RAN PREVIOUSLY REGARDLESS OF THIS WIRE)..as stated above all issues started when i swapped fuel filter?
did'nt swap back to old filter today as wanted to report on the fuel going yo 5th injector but still not firing?
i still think it has air in the mfi unit? maybe locked the diaphragm?
i am in australia and like 5 of these cars here...crocodile dundee mechanics will scratch thier heads for hours ......any other ideas lad?

 

Strange one this, I still say you don't have to Bleed re K & KE injection, was with Bosch agent for 10 years..50 years Auto sparks on all cars / Trucks / Buses...never ever had to bleed through as with Diesels, so write some thoughts...you do have a good ignition spark I take it..do just run a check whilst turning over...if perfect, check the plugs are not soaked, ...yes you got a spray in the "Face" !!...but you would with 10/20psi, I would Test a better way, your going to have to as someone has Interfeared with the Timer / wiring " ground that " Brown wire you refer to, will comment on why that has been done later.....ide like you to remove the 5th injector from manifold complete with Pipe on, pop into a safe container, disconnect ignition coil...now crank engine..the 5th is on the main 85/90psi line, do you see a good spray [ must ]..if perfect as should be..why are we not getting a burst into life..4 sparks..must do. To now comment on why the 5th injector has been eliminated, proberly back in the past had or indeed still has a leaky injector [ one of the 4 ] so cranking on a Cold engine the leaking injector plus the 5th, all too much...soaked the plugs..someone found it easy to do away with the 5th and its Timer, but for sure yes starting OKish...but engine Idle not good..eratic..etc. hope all helps.. Peter.........thinking that non-standard Filter somehow keeping pressure low ??

 

Thanks Pete. Yes so i just went out and rechecked all 4 plugs ..all 4 sparking.
Tommorow I will take the cold start line off at the manifold end as you suggest (I did check the mfi output to cold start with a spare line I have . I guess the line on the car could be blocked so I will do it properly as you told me to....
Will swap back to the original dirty fuel filter and see if it starts like it did previously.
Starting to lose interest in this "dream car" now haha
Thanks for your help.

 

OK but keep the 5th injector on the pipe....as requires some pressure to pass Fuel through nossel, rather than free run in disconnected pipe, that's the pipe where full 85/90psi would be seen with Pump relay " Pink or Silver " with terminals 30 / 87 bridged....ive a feeling Fuel struggling to get through that Filter !!, you might be able to hear the 5th injector " Click " on test....over the noise of starter cranking may be ?. Peter

 

Ok I just put the old fuel filter back on and syringed as much good fuel into as I could in its position...then primed it with fuel pump hot wired. Still nothing.
Will pull that 5th injector Tommorow as I have lost interest now.
I am wondering if I damaged the fuel pump using it to drain the old fuel out.
Looking into finding a pressure gauge down here now.
Also as wife was turning the key I had the air filter (pod filter) off and the mfi flap was going up and down maybe half an inch as it turned over? That normal?
Thanks for your help
Daz

 

Yes Daz that's normal on metering flap, so Pump could be down on pressure, you check the pressure at the 5th injector , depending on what Gauge you get you might have to get adapter from 5th injector to your Gauge your looking to see 85/90psi Pump relay bridged , the Pump could have picked up a lot of " Crud "...rust...as the Tanks rust from the inside over the years, This why I wanted you to keep the 5th pipe on injector whilst you were cranking...pressure only needed 40psi to overcome the 5th, so this will tell you something, also before doing a 5th Test ensure you have 12v on cranking engine actually at the injector Blue plug, as we know previous owner been messing with the negative side of the circuit which the Thermotimer controls. if no 12v on cranking...get back to me on how to sort. Peter

 

Thanks Pete. Will do that Tommorow. It's night time here also the 5th plug on my car is cream . Yet I do have a spare 5th attached to a spare line which is blue?
might sound stupid but since I had it running last time it's now on axle stands? Surely that wouldn't do anything?
And so the 5th injector plug needs 12v to the black/yellow and the brown which now has the switch needs grounding yes?
Thanks for your time

 

Also if it helps your diagnostics after this test I do have a spare 5th on the red pipe...spare mfi unit and inlet manifold I believe the inlet manifold was from a s1 though I got them with the car. Was thinking of looking for a t piece pressure gauge to go after the fuel filter?

 

5th injector wires Black/yellow tracer.....Brown/white tracer...correct, someone may have fitted new plug itself, as the original would have been Blue.........all colurs of plugs are....Blue 5th.....Yellow water sensor....Brown Thermotimer.......Black....Cold idle valve......Green...Knock sensor [ very late cars ]....for your help Daz. Pete..........axel stands all ok.....yes 12v pos will be live on Black/yellow on cranking only....Brown would have been original controlled from Timer....but your saying been messed with, so yes it has to be NEG - on again cranking a Cold engine, ....once you get engine up and running that Timer circuit needs to be put back to standard.

 

hmmm thanks so if he has but a switch on the brown wire to the 5th then thats not the termo timer like he said it was ( or he thought it was)/ he said i either twist it together before starting them open again or the other way around (his words not mine) either way the thing ran until i swapped filter...the choped wire is definately on the 5th injectror plug

brown chopped to this plug

 

black goes to under dash and i presume ( will check tommorrow its to ground via the dodgy switch

 

also strange you said about the green knock sensor ..and it being on late cars, mine is supposed to be a may 88 car, has knock sensor right side of inlet manifold and heart and triangle silver ecu.car was imported to oz in 1996 and has been restamped? maybe its not a 88 after all? does have 90 spec trim and bumper spoiler etc

 

also just tried starting with 12 v direct to fuel pump judt to rule out the relay...still nothing

 

Yes see the Brown wire there, its probrerly been cut because the engine has had over Fueling in a morning Cold start, all caused by most times Leaking 1 of the 4 normal injectors, or someone playing with the Pressure actuator [ for more performance ] do bear in mind the gauge will give the pressure readings on only relay bridged , if when engine running, ignor readings as the pressure responds to the metering unit and will fluctuate. Peter

 

switch key to stage 2 does fuel pump energise for what seems like a second ?? push flap down very briefly with stage 2 still on , check and reply >> did it squeal ??
fuel relay has to energise to pressure up the system,... the flap push won`t do nothing without pressure

 

hwy lads, todays instalment of this drama...
ok OAPETE i havnt got a pressure gauge as yet but tried other things...
1. I turned key to position 2 , pump primed as usual then at he same time as i heard the prime ( wife was on the key) i pushed the flap down.......NO SQUEEL
2. out of curiosity ( and saw on some of the many many similar posts) i gave the fuel pump 12v constant....then cracked off the 4 banjos to the injector pipes whilst pushing flap and not pushing flap.......NO FUEL from pipes
3. OAPETE....righto..i pulled the plug (mine beige/cream) from the cold start inj...no power to the black/yellow tracer and no ground on the brown ( remember has the dodgy switch on this in car...tried with brown switch open and closed and also grounded my test light direct to ground on the wiper motor bracket....tested while cranking (with coil lead OFF) nothing at all...
4. disconnected both power plugs to the different modules on the MFI (seperatly) nothing made a difference....

car was running after i swapped red injector lines...drained fuel using fuel pump and bottle at the fuel filter line and new fuel, new fuel new filter, filled up coolant and put it on axle stands and now its dead?

 

OK seems to me no pressure at all on what you write, I take it the Fuel Tank has a couple gallon in [ have to ask Daz ] you see I want to concentrate at moment on the Cold start injector, that's on the main pressure line, Black/yellow is LIVE + Daz only with Starter turning ONLY, its know as circuit 50 , its not fused, its also on the Thermo timer...check there you will see Black/yellow again , has wires been "cut " there, The brown will be to earth,but aware not now from timer..... Forget metering unit at moment, once pressure returns Cold start injector sprays direct into manifold, it must Fire up, all be it stop after 3 seconds having used up the Fuel from injector, also Note the Cold start injector is completely separated from both ECUs...your starter does crank...so the missing circuit is there, could be cut at timer ? make sure plenty petrol, useually pumps screem / become noisy when almost out of Fuel. your test of pushing metering flap...pump running..would have give plenty of Fuel. Peter

 

thanks for your reply...will fill it tommorow with fuel to rule that out....and check the therm timer switch for breaks in the wire...but yes i totally see what you are saying about that cold start...maybe i could give it power and see if it fires?

 

Yes Daz, but I would sort the Black/yellow as to why no 12V on cranking first...with the negative also...you can just earth that wire..just for now...once power correct, crank you should hear injector "click", would need it out to see if it sprays Fuel. Just a thought also, Pump bridged ...slacken the pipe at 5th itself..should be very strong there...Peter.

 

ok..............so i went and put 6 more jerry cans (30 litres) of new 98 octane juice in.....started and ran first turn of the key...pump sounded stronger on the prime too.

i feel stupid posting this reply but relieved too, like you said pete the low fuel (it did have fuel in ).....it musn't have created enough to get up to pressure...
although i did undo that dodgy twisted together brown lead from the cold start and it cut out, connected again and starts and runs sevearl times, have ran it for about 5 minutes at a time to burn grease and dust of the exhaust...idling at 2500rpm, maybe it will drop when it gets warm, didnt want to run too long as radiator leaking (next job on list) and not a lot of airflow in the shed...
also its pissing oil from the pressure switch above the oil filter and aalternator sounds rattly....but its running, not been driven since 2012, once i do rear suspension bushes i can take it for a squirt up the street......

THANKS SO MUCH for your help OAPETE

 

Great Daz, yes put the Brown wire back on the timer, Cold start idle does sound High, should be depending how cold the weather 1100 /1200 rpm...gradualy drops to preset Idle 850/900 rpm, If it does not get back to me how to set up....but as you said you have plenty other things to sort first, once your at a stage on the road and find the Hot idle bad, remember that 5th injector was cut out for a reason, can help on sorting that, remember the Brown wire must not remain earthed, it should be back on Timer, you see Timer cuts it out when Warm.......... main thing now is its RUNNING.. Peter

 

yes thanks a lot....the guy i bought it off was a bit of a character going on about massive power, full of stories etc...so who knows why he cut that wire? i just want it back to normal ...had a few of these back in the 90s , never remember them being so small, couldnt even get under the dash yesterday looking for the relays, took seat out and still couldnt get my head under haha
thanks so much

 

what a great forum this is....600+ pages of rs turbo problems and fixes...helpful strangers. the world needs more of this. thanks

 

Fantastic read