Hey everyone,
Bought a 04 Focus 1.6 SE. Story goes it blew a head gasket, engine was cooked, engine got replaced like-for-like but wasnt able to be got running. I bought it as a non-runner and am trying to get it going.

Fuel pressure is good.
Appear to have good spark (have tried 3 coil packs)
No sign of vacuum leaks anywhere
PATS light is behaving as it should
No DTCs appearing

I have tried both crank and camshaft position sensors (all check out with the correct resistance)
I've even tried a replacement ECU and key but no joy

Engine will turn over and over but won't fire.


Any ideas?

 

Are the injectors being triggered?

 

I've pulled the plugs out at various stages and each time all have been wet with fuel.

 

If you have fuel spark and ignition it carnt be that much lol.Has the timing on the other engine been messed with?And is the crank sensor and cam sensor off the other engine that blew?Igntion leads in the right order?All the connectors connected and in the right place?Everything earthed?

 

Is the fuel old/shit/contaminated?

 

Thats why its driving me crazy mate. I tried pulling a plug and earthing it while turning over and spark seems decent enough but I've heard you can damage coil packs by doing this so was reluctant to keep trying.

I checked the timing and it was marginally off, looked like it had been done by eye. I reset it correctly with proper tooling and it didnt effect things.

I was told all sensors were pulled off the dead engine and put into the replacement one but cant be 100% positive, but i've gotten a couple more from a breakers yard and none of them have changed things while all giving acceptable resistance readings.

I've taken off all earths and cleaned them up, checked all fuses, separated all plugs and connections and remade them incase of any corrosion build up.

 

I hadnt thought of that but i suppose its worth a try.

 

I once spent 2 days messing around at work with a Fiat grande Punto turbo that was the same, crank but not start, kept flooding the plugs. Fiat field engineer came out and after a while suggested we test the fuel, drained some out and set fire to it (!!!!) it burned but very slowly and made an oily mess on the floor afterwards. Drained the tank, put fresh petrol in, fresh plugs and it was away!

 

If it goes with easy start then it probably is duff fuel. I'd also replace the fuel filter whilst you're at it too, fairly cheap items and some don't get replaced anywhere near as often as they should.

 

Apologies everyone, crossed wires when chatting to my dad about the car. We have no spark. This should make things easier.

I have tried;
new leads
new plugs (gaps checked)
2 Second hand coil packs
1 New coil pack

 

Try the crank sensor and also look for a ignition fuse in engine bay make sure its not blown.

 

If there is no spark its a fault with the crank sensor but i have also seen broken wires from the sensor to the ECU on these. They also suffer with ECU problems but they tend to only fire half the coil pack when its down to the ECU.

Hope this helps

 

Also have another look at the cam sensor.make sure the wires are in the right places

 

I've tried a couple of crank and cam sensors from a scrappy. I know these can be hit and miss but have also tested them with a multimeter and they are all working within the ranges that are advised in the Haynes manual.

I've had every fuse out, checked, cleaned and put back as it should be so no joy there.

I couldnt find any dodgey connections with the ECU. Any ideas of where they would normally break?

 

Verify the CPS is connected and the coil pack has a supply to it.

Martin

 

No cam sensor on the 1.6 is there? There definatley wasn't any on mine.

Have you checked all the wiring between the ECU and the CPS?
Have you plugged it in and checked for codes? It might have flagged something up.

 

Hi Martin,

CPS is connected.
I started checking the supply to the coil pack with the multimeter. Its a 3 pin plug.
Centre pin - 12v (drops to 11.4 on turnover)
Can't get any readings on the 2 outer pins - Any idea what I should be getting?

 

Yup, definitely is a cam sensor on it. at no.1 cylinder on the back of the block at the top. All the other ones in the scrappy had it too

I've plugged everything in and out and had the code reader plugged in dozens of times but no codes being generated

 

Really need a 'noid' light to check the switching of the coil from the ECU, plug it in from centre to each outside terminal of coil connector and it should flash on cranking. Could try it with a test light or an LED.

 

There is and yours would have, as does any modern car, else sequential fuel injection would not be possible.

OP, as to your question, what he ^^ said, although if using a test light I would use a very low wattage, as you can end up damaging the ECU.

Martin

 

Yes, I should have added that! Weird thing with this is, if there is fuel in the cylinders, the ECU must be seeing a cranking signal, or it would not let the injectors trigger. Surely?

 

I think the crank sensor cuts spark not fuel. The cam sensor will not stop it from starting.

Have you measured voltage at the crank sensor whilst cranking? It could still be a duff crank sensor as it doesn't have to be completely shot to stop them from starting; they pick up crap over time and do not produce a strong enough signal.

 

I've made up a test lamp with a 5w bulb and also some leads for easily testing the crank and cam sensors while cranking.

I'll do the tests tonight or tomorrow after work.

Appreciate the advice!

 

The CPS input is used to calculate SPOUT, I think a bad cam sensor would result in batch injection.

Martin

 

I have replaced cam sensors on zetec se before, but they have always been runners, just logging a fault with MIL on.

On some engines they won't start with a bad cam sensor as the ECU is not seeing engine 'synch', but you can unplug them whilst running and they will continue to run.

 

That's exactly what happens with the old Weber management.

Although the later versions use battery voltage as part of an algorithm to determine the phasing, in the event of the sensor failing, which I assume is what all the modern ECUs do.

Martin

 

Right i got the test lamp out and am getting nothing whilst cranking the engine.
So is this telling my Crank sensor is duffed along with the other ones I got from the scrappy or am I looking at going a different direction?

 

Nothing where?

 

Your getting no reading at all?Was the ignition on?and did you try getting a reading when cranking the engine?

 

I used the test lamp as advised with one side going to the middle pin of the coil pack plug and the other side going to one of the outer pins.
I then cranked and the light didnt light up at any stage.

Then tried the other outer pin the same way and same result

 

I had this issue before after a engine change, Check the engine bay loom and look for a wire that's been pulled out of the back of the plug a bit ie check all the connectors on the engine loom, mine turned out to be just above the gearbox where it links most of the engine sensors to the main loom.
didn't find out what the wire controlled but had the same issue as you and it was a se engine.

 

Seems a good move

 

I went down to the garage there and separated the 2 plugs over the gearbox and the 1 on the drivers side, all pins seem to be sat at the same level and all the sockets looked level too. gave all the wires a push and then reconnected but no joy.

I'll have another go tomorrow and check if any of the sockets within the plugs are loose.

 

Went through all the connections today and nothing is wrong there.
All components seem to be getting the correct results when testing.

So now I have a theory;

Whilst I had the Crankshaft position sensor out I looked in through the hole
I rotated the engine until i could see the gap on the flywheel that is picked up by the sensor.
With the gap inline with where the sensor would be I went and checked the position of the pistons.
All pistons were close to being in line with each other. i.e. NOT at TDC
So - Should the gap in the flywheel correspond with TDC?

I'm thinking that when the "mechanic" put the flywheel on to the engine he hadn't put the dowel back in and so bolted it on its 6 bolts in the wrong position.

I'm doubting this "mechanic's" ability more and more as I find more bodges on the car

 

It's very uncommon for the missing tooth to be at zero degrees.
With Bosch systems on 4-cylinders on a lot of makes it was at 108 degrees BTDC.
The reason is that the teeth are used for controlling spark timing and a missing tooth would make that slightly more inaccurate and a whole lot more difficult to write the software correctly.
Usually there's only 1 position the flywheel will fit, because of the pattern used for the bolts. It's unlikely that it is fitted in a wrong position.

 

Cheers for the info mate. I'm pulling my hair out at this stage so considering any posibility!

 

im sure its been suggested but , was the fuel cut of activated ?

 

No mate it wasnt, I've even made sure it works as it should be making it activate and all checks out fine.

Doing more digging now and if the replacement engine was from an Automatic it might not work in a manual car (crankshaft sensor sits differently)
Going to check the engine number with Ford tomorrow and go from there

 

Well the car is now running and the engine is an absolute peach going on first impressions.

After using the info in this thread it was decided that the issue was with the Crankshaft Position Sensor. I started to think what issues there could be and thought maybe there was a difference with automatic and manual engines. We had no idea if our engine was an automatic but just went with the hunch.We talked to Ford and they didnt know of any differences but we continued with our theory.

So me and my dad separated the engine and box. and looked in and it looked like the sensor would be reading the wrong section of the flywheel so wouldnt be giving the ECU any timing info. We put a bolt with paint through the hole and then continued the stripdown.

This is what we found



Clearly sensor reading the wrong area.



Then seeing the word AUTO on the bracket that positions the sensor confirmed the suspicion.

We then headed straight to the breakers yard and got the bracket from a manual engine.



This highlights the difference in where the sensor is positioned and the fact that one says MAN and the other AUTO.

Built everything back up and the car started on the first turn of the key.

Cheers for the help and hopefully this could get someone else out of a hole in the future.

 

Great stuff!

Man made faults are the worst...