Allright guys,
Don't suppose anyone knows what happened to simon's project dealing with a possible diagnostic system for Weber/iaw ecu's??,something similuer to the MSD's laptop diagnostic set-up.
Last i heard there were problems with copyright or something.
Enlighten me pleeze

 

Hi there,

I am still around

As for the project in question, I was told that to continue it on here was breaching the rules.

As I understand things this was because .....

1) It was perceived as breaching trade secrets of the mapping companies.
Even though ALL weber based cosworth chips are rip off copies of the original Ford ecu software anyway..LOL

I dont see how this is fair because the companies in question make money from other peoples work without paying royalties whereas I would not make a single penny !


2) Even though I offered to give the software away absolutely free of any charge, the adminstrators on here decided that unless I gave away the source code, it would be classed as trading.

I think this is wrong as there are many programs that are truly freeware that do not provide source code. For example, Microsoft Internet explorer.
The source code is not needed to use the final program. !!

Do mappers who encrypt there chips give you the maps to read.. ? NO !


By retaining the source code, I retain control of how the software would have evolved and that it would also prevent someone else with malicious intentions from using it by adding viruses etc or selling it as there own product and making money from my hard work.

As I spent all the time and effort writing the program and researching the information, it is only fair I decide how it is distributed and used and also by having only 1 source of the original, bugs and modifications can be uniformly added and tested etc..

It was my intention to put this all on another website when I was made aware it wasnt welcome here but at the time about 11 months ago, I had a major family crisis so I just put everything on the back burner.






So at this point in time, the software is about 90% complete. !

I have had offers to buy the rights to the software but I have rejected them.

However, I am in the process of building a YB engine so my interest has been rekindled despite others efforts to discourage me. !
It would have been nice to do it on another site such as AFF but that is no longer going !
I could run my own web comunity to do this but I just dont have the time to do everything !


For the record, I am no longer trading and in fact havent traded for nearly 5 years and have been in normal full time employment !


*** The information here is my opinion on the matter and if there are any inaccuracies or omissions then I welcome corrections and/or calm and reasonable discussion by the administration of PF.

 

good luck simon i hope it genuinely works out as it sounds an interesting project

 

Well if you ever did continue the development on another site I for one would be very interested in using it/giving feedback etc

 

Sounds very interesting and I am sure with more evolution and development can be made to be something even more amazing with more capabilities. Not often something like this comes up a shame that it is not being allowed to go ahead on here. But if that's the case fuck it mate, their loss at the end of the day not yours.

 

Simon, I guess its because your initial promise was to release the source code that they are holding you to that, as that was how you said that this time you would demonstrate that you werent just doing what you have done in the past and creating something for personal use that you then turn into a product to try and sell.

So I guess you are a victim of your own broken promises.

If you genuinely want to help people and to do it just for fun, then I see no reason at all why you wouldnt just publish the source code like you said you would, and then everyone can help you carry on with the development, given your obvious lack of time to dedicate to such things surely it would be a bonus to you as well to have others help you with it?

Seems perfectly reasonable to me for Stu to just make you stick to your promise that you made initially when he gave you permission to start talking about it on here. IF you didnt intend to stick to that promise, you shouldnt have made it when asking to talk on here in the first place, you only have yourself and yet more of your broken promises to blame for the situation you are in now surely?

 

pf mapers unite ahhahhh unlucky simon you are on a looser here chap

 

think people are worried you may stumble across something great, they are trying to hold you back! your obviously a talented chap so carry on

 

Allrite simon,
I'm glad your around mate!,i've still got this Cosworth mapper/eeprom reader or whatever the fuk it is here gathering dust.
The bloody airline wouldn't let my sister on board with it when i said a few years back that i'd send it over to you..
If you carry on with your project let me know and i'll find another way of gettin it there.

 

agreed 100%, he seams a very nice chap, i hope il meet him one day, do you still have the ST simon?

 

I have never said I "wanted" to release the source code it was a case of being manipulated into doing so as a form leverage on here.

I said I would release the final executable under a freeware type license.
From that, it was assumed or the excuse used to make me do so was used in order to prevent me doing this project in an open comunity like this to protect other peoples business.

You know very well as I do that you do not need the the source code to have or use a program that is genuinely 100% free.

*** For those who dont know, source code is the program design that makes the final program that is used.

When I first started the project before I wanted it to become free, I did consider selling it but changed my mind as any money made wouldnt really cover my costs but because the work was mainly done, it just seemed a waste to let it sit on the shelf gathering dust.

Anyway, I am no longer in self employed business and havent been for nearly 5 years.

I have stated since then that it would be a free entity and still stand by that to this day.
Surely if I stated that then I tried to sell it, then action could be taken against me. !

There is no broken promise here as you will never finds me saying anything lioke the following statement ..."I promise to give away the source code"

I am doing it for fun and not profit.

Why would I want to publish the source code ? This would only allow people to abuse the hard work I have done.
This could lead to buggy versions, malicious versions, versions sold etc...
Giving the source away could allow some people to bypass encryption boards etc..

People can help develop the software in so much they can suggest features, test and help find bugs etc... so it makes sense to have a single point of develeopment given that it is only just one small executable file and not a major software project needing multiple writers.


As I stated before, I never made a promise to release the source code, this was something that was imposed on me in an effort to stop me.

The fact is, during the developement, I found a way to break Stu's encryption board protection (by accident).
I could have left this feature in the software but I removed it and informed Stu of the breach in his security which led him to close the loop hole and I promised him that I wouldnt include it in the program.
Now, It is my opinion, since this point, he went from liking the software as he said on early threads to doing everything he can to prevent it in order to protect his business.

I find it strange that you as a software developer yourself, feel that I should give away all my hardwork to anyone when only the final program is needed for everyone who wants to use it.

Its my design, its my time taken to research the secrets, its my time to write the code and test it and how and what I choose to give this away is up to me.

You have an axe to grind with me so are 100% biased against me before you give me any pedantic reply otherwise !


All I would like now is to continue this project here as I have stated in an open an friendly community with these targets.....

1) The final executable program will be 100% free.
2) The software does not require any form of registration.
3) The software will not breach encryption boards.

Wouldnt it be nice if a ford dedicated project on a ford website involving ford enthusiasts was allowed or perhaps I should include BMW's in it too






Yeah maybe !

Yes, I think you may be right but there are plenty of mapping/ecu secrets I already know and have stated I wouldnt put them in so dont see the problem.
Thanks for the comment.


The project has restarted and would like to do it here in the open.
Someone has offered to set up a website for me so may go down that route as I dont have time to do this and manage a forum.
I will arrange collection if you like or send you money to ship it ??


No, someone run into me just after xmas and wrote it off
The insurance payout was less than the value so the payout was swallowed by outstanding finance and I was left with nothing even though it wasnt my fault and the gap insurance was a joke !


**** EDIT ****

I have decided rather than bitch about it again on here anymore, I will send Stu an email outlining my proposals once more just incase either him or myself have missunderstood anything. Will let you all know the result

 

Hi Simon

As I asked on the other thread, can you "make" an interface that will allow one of these http://www.race-technology.com/ecu_i...es_2_7533.html to work with a Dash 2 from a L8 (with Iss3 Pectel board and coilpack board) please ?

 

sorry to hear about the st mate hope you were ok?

 

Just do it Simon, fuck 'em

 

Simon. You definately said you would publish it under gnu and stu agreed it could go on here as that meant source code too and hence you lose the ability to Market it effectively so would show this time you are genuine about it being non commercial hence he would allow it without you being a trader.

Seemed fair of him IMHO

I'll find the thread For you if you still don't remember doing so?

Gnu = with source code, for those not familiar with the term.

 

seems that simon is trying to be genuine and help out.. why should he have to give away his source code if hes giving the programe away free anyway?

 

Whats stopping him giving it away free on here and then selling it elsewhere? then he wouldnt have to give the source code would he? Hes not trading on this site then is ? I know he wouldnt need to sell it elsewhere as it would get passed on to every tom dick and harry but just for principal sake?

 

Exactly mate, at the end of the day it's his work so he can do what ever he wants with it surely?

He's not trading if he's willing to give it away for free regardless of how it's given away.

 

To me it just seems that chip has got a 'chip' on his shoulder regarding simon

 

Yes I could but not specifically as that would take lots of time just to help 1 person and I dont trade anymore.

However, as some PC's serial interfaces dont work with the kind of software I am developing, I have designed a multipurpose interface that allows any pc to talk to an L8 or P8.
This is a USB interface speciffically designed to talk to weber ecu's removing any incompatiablity issues as sufferred by the MSD/RP Labs software.
This has a RS232 interface so could be adapted to do what you need, however, I dont know much about that product you mention but will have a looksie

This interface, design and run time code will be available for anyone to build themselves once my software is released.



Yes mate, it was a head on crash on my side of the road ! Air bag saved the day !



It is going to be completed one way or another.



I have to admit I did mention the term GNU without actually understanding what it fully entails ages ago.

However, I stand by my reasons not to issue the source code so it will be FREEWARE which does NOT have to have source code available.
(Truly freeware as no registration or adverts will be imposed or required)

It is my project so will decide on its use, not you or anyone else.

The software will be given away free of any charge and the source code will remain mine.
I wrote it, I spent the time on it and I want to prevent anyone taking advantage of my work or publishing bad or buggy versions.

As I said before, the source code could be used to break others encryption methods very easily so thats another reason not to issue it.

I dont see what the problem is as if I was ever to try and profit from it, I am sure you and/or Stu would be the first to complain



Exactly



I have no desire to trade on this or any other site.
I am a development engineer only now and have been for 5 years now.


Yep, he wants the source code him self to take advantage off or pick holes in for what ever reason IMO



Anyway, as I said above, I am going to send Stu an email to clarify his and my positions and see what happens.

 

Me peronally I'f people were being funny I would include the encription bypassing if they are trying to fuck u over fuck them over more

 

Me too.

 

Brilliant - thanks Simon

 

I've no interest in the source myself, I'm too busy already without gettin involved in such things to be honest and my car runs an rp labs ecu I can map anyway.

Was just clearing up what happened for those who missed why Simon was told he could put it on the forum then told he couldn't. It's because he said one thing to get stu on side then changed his mind, or as he is claiming when he discovered what the gnu agreement he suggested actually meant.

I've no vested interest one way or the other as I have no dealings with l8 ecus myself.

 

Sounds like you are one very talented person, keep with it wish there was someone on the audi forums like you, doing something to help others out

 

So why bother when you have no intrest in Simons work,or the ECU's he works on, if not only to pick at him??

 

i wonder if my copy is still in the post simon?

 

Thread starter was asking about it and obviously hoping to see it on here, so I was just filling in with some background info on why he won't as Simon tends to choose to remember things differently to how they happened so I thought some people might be interested in the truth rather than just his version.

 

While im sure from reading that simon isn't perfect, it looks like to me theres a few people who would love to see him fail etc dont know if thats down to jealousy or other? all imo of course

 

I'm very jealous of simons talent with electronics but only in a healthy way and I actually think it's a shame he kept failing in business.

I've always got on well with him when I've met him and even used to run one of his ecu's for a while.

So if your comment was aimed at me it's misplaced.

 

and we are back to square 1 ...
simon YOU said you would release the code as gnu ...

which the admin team had no issues about ...

then obviously realising you had made a huge cockup you started to make it look like the admin on this site had an issue with you releasing it..

this has been all commented about in the last thread you spouted off about your ongoing battles with the webteam and other issues

i feel chip has basically commented correctly on this ...

the reality is there is money that can be made from this but there are ways of controlling it so that it could be done under a gnu as YOU first offered...

if you are that worried that it could be used to break encryption codes... why are you worried ?
at the start you comment about infringement of copyrighted work so you are also saying you have deliberatly breached copyrighted work .. so now im confused .. isn't that a criminal offence now is that why you are worried ?

https://passionford.com/index.php?pageid=rules
2. Members Conduct.
In posting on the PassionFord forums, you agree that you will not use the Discussion Forum, its private message and E-mail system or any other part of our site to:

. Breach any applicable law or regulation.

ˇ Infringe any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright, database right or other similar right of any party

ˇ Violate any applicable national or international laws or regulations.

im a tad confused about this part of it ...
you are offering a service or computer programme that will deliberatly do this ...

so you offering this will infact get you banned from passionford

 

Eagle, I dont believe its a criminal offence to break encryption, its merely a copyright violation which is a civil matter not a criminal one IIRC.

And its no different Simon doing that, to people like Stu or Tony or Karl doing it when they remap a car on standard management, as they are copying and altering the manufacturers data when they do so, which is no different legally to copying and altering their software as far as im aware, all of which are talked openly about on here, so I dont believe that is a problem either in terms of the rules despite how they appear to be worded there as until proof of copyright infringement is given (ie a civil case taken against one of them by ford or whoever) then the benefit of the doubt is given surely?

Stu's reasoning for not letting Simon (a known trader of ECU related products in the past) post openly about his developments on here was well document in previous discussions and is that he of course believes that doing so may be of direct or indirect commerical value to Simon, which isnt fair on other traders who have to pay if they wish to use this site for commercial gains such as product exposure which he would be gaining for free.
Simon got Stu on side when he said he would release under GNU, which would stop the product from being as commerically valuable to Simon as it would be opening the work up to others fully as well, but then Simon backed out of that part of the deal and so Stu said if Simon was going to want to keep commerical control of his product and as such have the potential to make money from it at a later date then he needed to be treated once more as a trader on here, which seems perfectly fair to me given the rules of the forum with regards to trading.

 

what I dont understand, is how being operated under a gnu license (GPL LGPL) etc would prevent simon making money out of the product, especially if you consider the Gnu LGPL iirc is usually used for libraries which he could if he wanted to be manipulative, release say 20% of the source under the Gnu LGPL which may allow you to connect and talk to the ecu but not do anything worthwhile. However this would be manipulative.

I have not seen the previous threads and so dont have a clue what was said in the past - However I was just pointint our a manipulation which could have occured, whilst still meeting what he said.

The other thing is, the GNU GPL License does not prevent you from selling the piece of software, as otherwise companies such as red hat would not be making such high levels of profit (Red Hat have an enterprise version of linux, a gnu GPL'd product), with turnover in september last year reported at $28.9.

 

Simon was sayin he would release it, not parts of it.

You'll see I have said it make it less commercially valuable to him as opposed to worthless to him as I'm familiar with gnu anyway mate as I'm a software engineer by profession myself.

 

SIMON, In the imortal words of NIKE (just do it)

 

From my limited understanding of this source code business, if I were Simon I wouldnt release it.

 

sorry chip i stand corrected ... still the point is kinda valid tho lol

 

Pete, (Eagle),

All my work is 100% my own and not copied nor a modified form of any others and only takes advantage of open doors in others software that people freely leave open.
(as others have done so.. RP Labs/Pectel/Collins etc)

I have NEVER sold anything that remotely contains anything copied from other peoples work as I have no need to do so with my extensive knowledge and experience and no one can deny that despite my business track record.

Therfore, if you "think" I am breaching site rules and feel the need to ban me then there are many on here trading and talking about these products (chips etc) which is far far worse than any perceived thing you "think" I am doing and they would breach any site rules here on PF way before I ever would in these circumstances and I dont see you handing out warnings or quoting rules to these people.
(E.G. Such a Iphone jailbreaking, traders selling cossie chips etc..)

People selling chips for cossies are selling copied and/or modified versions of other peoples work.
A bit like copying a CD changing the cover colour and rebadging it as your own work..LOL

Yes I got confused about the GNU terminology which I admited too very early on but I was manouvered in to this position when others realised the potential of my abilities.
When I realised my mistake, I changed this to FREEWARE which gives total unrestricted personal use without the need for reward or the need to posess the source code building blocks !

Now, when I realised I actually found a loop hole in MSD's chips, I didnt take adavantage of this and in fact as I said, I informed Stu about it so he could take steps to resolved the flaw in his encryption after this, I said that I would not allow my program to take advantage of that as a sign of good will and still have not to this day.
If I was doing this as a way to make money, I could have made a fair bit as I had many offers to take over the software from other tuners but refused them.

There are those out there who will take advantage of it either for profit or maliciously and I wont allow either as it is my hard work and no one elses.

There is absolutely no need for me to give the source code away in order for this software to be truly free to use as a standlone entity.
It doesnt require any comitment, payment, registration or have time restrictions or any form of advertising.

Surely, once the software was completed and if I asked for payment or reward then surely you or any other of the admin on here would take action imediately so why is it such an issue as I know you are looking for any excuse to push the ban button !

I wanted the software to be a community design project for Ford cars on a Ford site and standby that if/when I am ever allowed to use PF to discuss and develop it, I will never ask for any reward nor will I allow any feature for bypassing encryption to be used but the source code will always remain in my control to protect my hard work and stop others taking advantage.

Sorry for the biblical explanation and repetition of information but I feel its needed as to me this whole bias agaisnt me is little more than personal grudges or self preservation other than the fact I "could" make a few quid that xxxx didnt get a cut of !

Now in summary, if this 100% free original written software is free for anyone to dowload and use without reward or restriction and I stick to that, whats the "real" problem in doing it here in the open ? ..... !!!

 

Why does it have to be PF? Just use the Escortcosworth forum

 

Martin,

As much as I respect Mr Ripleys forum, I no longer own an escort cosworth as I had to sell it to fund my new house.
If you dont own one then you are not classed as a normal user on that site.

Besides, this software isnt just for the escort cosworth its for any YB using L6/L8/P8 !