Karl Norris insists there is something wrong with this map but will not tell me why because........

"I’m sorry but I don’t wish to help you with the mapping of your car, except to say that what you have shown me is wrong. All I will say about CVH engines is that it has some strange characteristics with regards to mapping, and the knowledge I have gained on them is reserved for my own engines only! This is why I do not part with much information on the internet, as my knowledge has taken years and hundreds of engines to get to where I am now."

Which I understand 100% and is fair play but.... I need to know whats wrong??!! lol

He also said.....

"The ignition map you sent is wrong for a standard C.R engine"

This is all the info I have to go by, if you want to see the full thread as to why i'm talking to Karl about my map look here: https://passionford.com/forum/ford-e...use-found.html

All I can think of is that after the engine reaches peek VE (around 5000rpm), then the timing should retard gradually as the RPM continues to increase, much like my fuel map does?

All input greatly appreciated!

 

On a turbo engine the timing after peak VE will generally increase again.

 

Cheers Doug!
So WTF is wrong with it??

 

They look like nice smooth maps to me, but I dont have Karls intimate knowledge of the CVH to comment on why its not quite right for one.

Get it on the rollers and find out!

 

Don't see how he can be so broad as to specify wrong for just that cr as different cam specs will have a big difference on dynamic cr. Plenty of other things like the effeciancy of your intercooler will also make ignition timing specific to a certain car.

 

Thats what I thought Doug so assumed that there is something glaringly obvious thats wrong??

 

the midrange looks a touch too advanced, but couldn't be sure just from looking.

 

maybe he just wants to sell you an engine, or just doesnt want your work ?

 

Thanks Rick, what effect would this have on the running and what sort of advance would you expect to see midrange?

 

It would det its tits off if it was much too advanced.

But I assume you have had det cans on it so it cant possibly be too advance?

 

Yes mate no Det at all!

 

Well if its not det'ing the only real way to know if it is too advanced is to put it on the rollers to find MBT!

 

MBT??

 

Max brake torque...?

Benni.

 

Minimum advance for Best Torque


Ie the optimum ignition figure.

Typically on a turbo car its just before DET, well it is on a highish comp one, on an N/A car though you will normally go past MBT way before you get det and at high rpm you may never get det at all.

So you cant always just tune by det points.

 

Cheers!
I have not even started tuning the timing map yet as I had to wait for a new clutch to be fitted, my old one was slipping at around 17psi so just put the mapping on hold till it arrived, typically that was the day the valve seat lept into my chamber!!
But there was no Det at that point!

 

is there any det marks in the other 3 cylinders?

 

So what cause the valve seat to fail?

What AFR was it?

Were you monitoring EGTs?

 

No nothing at all!
AFR 11.8 full load WOT, Cruise 14.0-14.5, light throttle light acceleration 13.5-14.0.
Only was I can monitor EGT's is by the colour of the manifold/turbo, it wasnt glowing so they were not too high is all I can say.

It looks like my head gasket was not sealing correctly from what Karl has said!
If you look at the last page of this thread you'll see what he wrote: https://passionford.com/forum/ford-es...use-found.html

 

Correct, point for you

Back on topic, what boost were you running? Was the MAP sensor correctly configured, and the timing? Did you check it with a light?

 

Why - he got it wrong

 

he was wrong tho lol minus point for you

 

Although he was wrong in terms of what the term actually meant, he did at least understand that what I was referring to was optimising the ignition for max torque at each point.

So he was at least largely correct even if the wording was slightly wrong.

 

Around 17psi, yes MAP sensor shows exactly the same reading as my AVC-R, yes timing was checked with a light at idle and matches the ECU reading.