I'd like your opinions on my maps below, but PLEASE bear in mind this is my first time mapping a car ever so dont rip me to shit if you spot something obviously wrong! It probably isnt obvious to me!
Also this is very much work in progress!
I've included a datalog at the bottom also just for fun!







Cheers!

 

i've just had a horrible flashback of excel spreadsheet lessons from school *shudders*

good luck with that lot mate, i hope its easier than it looks

 

All looks pretty reasonable, although I would suggest that the VE at about 5K appears to be a litle higher than you think it is from the way it goes leaner at that point.
Not enough to stop it driving well im sure though.

 

It is actually easier than it looks!

Cheers Chip, I have added a bit of fuel in that very area as I noticed it too just havent done a fresh log since.............so to speak! lol

It drives really well, specially compared to MFI!
The only thing i'm struggling a little with is getting the Acceleration Enrichment spot on, if I open the throttle a little but do it quickly it hesitates, increase the AE fuelling and I can cure it but get a massive rich spike (well reverse spike if you know what i mean?!) on my AFR graph, cant quite get the balance right yet.

 

looks alright to me apart from the 5k rpm bit.
not that i know much though.
on my maps, the numbers on the right only go upto 150 on ve and 100 on the ignition tables.
have i missed something here in the values i have used, they came on maps i had to get me going.

cheers
sean

 

Do mean the numbers in the left hand axis that go from 35 - 250, kpa %?

 

yep, i guess mine could be way off, i only have the 2.5bar map sensor, it may change in the future though.
on the maps i was given to set it up they are as i described, as are all the maps i've got from various turbo and non turbo setups.

 

Oh!!!
I'm only running a 2.5bar (21psi or 250kpa) map sensor too, if your only mapped to 100/150kpa then i'm suprised you have not destroyed your engine!!
100kpa is 0psi (atmophereic pressure), so as soon as you go positive pressure your timing is not mapped at all, and when you go over 150kpa (7psi) your fuelling is not mapped either!!
All I can assume is that your 100kpa Advance cells are retarded enough to be safe and that you 150kpa fuelling cells are fuelling correctly for the maximum boost you run?!

 

not been out in it yet, only been tinjering with the idle as the map on the go is easier to tune.
i thought something wasn't right, oops.

 

Yeah if you have a 250kpa (2.5bar, 21psi) MAP sensor then your table should look just like mine, well the scales should..... not the actual values lol

 

it was something to do with an update it's been through for the firmware, they were right when it was tested on a running car of similar spec.
got a map coming tomorrow, i'll just use the map and so the other settings won't be lost then

 

 

alright fella, is it possible for you to post up a copy of your msq?
i'm after afr and ignition tables, got the ve sorted now.

cheers
sean

 

1.5 bar is 21psi mate, not 2.5

You are mixing up absolute and relative pressure I suspect?

 

Interesting stuff! Could someone explain the tables and graphs to me please?! I'd love to expand my knowledge in this area. I understand the 1st table with spark advance and how you would need to change that according to rpm and load, but what's the percentage indicator along the opposite axis to the rpm axis? I guessed throttle percentage but then you can't get 250% throttle, can you?

As for the next table down, I'm presuming this would be the fuelling table (by process of illimination as I know the other table is for spark!), but all I undersand of that table is the rpm key along the bottom!!

I'm scratching my head about the graphs too...

THUS, you can tell I've got no experience of mapping or aftermarket management. I'd love to learn though. I understand the principles and I'm good with computers (work in IT for a living at the mo). If someone could explain the pretty pics in the first post then that would be great

 

lol
Sorry yes what I ment to say was if he has a 250kpa MAP sensor (2.5bar MAP Sensor, 21psi of positive/relative pressure) then his table should look like mine.

Yup that is the fuelling table, and the % on the left is actually manifold pressure/vacuum meassured in kpa (kilopascal), 1psi = 6.9kpa so 250kpa = 36.3psi of which 14.7psi is atmospheric pressure leaving upto 21.6psi of meassurement for positive/relative/boost pressure, hence a 2.5bar MAP Sensor.
The values in the table are how much fuel is injected at any point.
The graphs are just logs of my AFR (air to fuel ratio), TPS, RPM, and MAP(Manifold Pressure)

 

This is my latest Fuelling table after some data logging of cruising at 30, 40, 50, 60, & 70mph and realising I was extremely rich (12.0:1 approx), and trying to get rid of the big lean spike when I blipped the throttle that made the engine 'hang' for a second!

 

Thanks for the info!

So what the values in the fuelling table relate to? Obviously it's an amount of fuel at a given time but what measuement is used?

 

My understanding is that it's the injector duty but not a direct figure like milliseconds for example, it's a percentage that relates to other values in the ECU like your base/required fuel figure.
But for mapping purposes all you really need to know is that higher is more fuel and lower is less! lol

 

It multiplies the VE table against the AFR table and then via a mutliplier to represent the scale of the injectors versus the size of the cylinder.

 

lol!
Cheers Chip! What if there is no AFR table?

 

I dont think its possible not to have an AFR table at all.

If you have the wrong values it would just throw the scaling out, and you'd end up with way bigger or smaller numbers in the VE table, which wouldnt particuarly matter as you would still get the same pulse width, its just not "good practice"

 

If you dont have a Lamda selected then there is no editable AFR table, maybe there are default values it uses in that instance?

 

Must do I guess mate, never looked at that TBH, ive only ever mapped cars on MS that were already up and running so it was just a case of mapping the VE and Ignition tables in those instances.

 

Fair play!

 

AFR hasn't up until very recently been used in the fuel calculation at all. Karlos' map certainly doesn't use it - i can tell by looking at the numbers. The AFR table has just functioned as a look up for closed loop. However, with the latest releases of the code, there is now an option to multiply by AFR. The idea is that this will then give an accurate representation of the engines actual VE - this is important as MS is evolving to use more model based calculations. It does however mean that with the option enabled, the table needs retuning. Not really worth doing unless you're starting from scratch.

So, before we had

pulse width = MAP x RPM x VE x delta where delta is the sum of all the various enrichment calculations (accel enrich, warm up enrich etc).

Now we have:

pulse width = MAP x RPM x VE x AFR x delta

Worth noting that multiply by MAP can be disabled in some odd ball engines where there is a lot of MAP jitter. It's not recommended though, and gives a very strange looking VE table.

Rick

 

Also, note that when multiplying by AFR, the ECU actually multiplies by 1/lambda, ie smaller lambda/richer mixture increase pw!

 

Very interesting Rick, cheers!
I do use the AFR table and EGO correction closed loop for sub 100kpa/25%tps to get a nice economical cruise and idle.

 

I's still so so so interested in going efi megasquirt, I had swayed to cosworth system,

Would somewhere like msd map megasquirt if I had trouble with setting it up?

 

Best to ring up and ask, I know APT wont do it though and a lot of tuners dont like mapping home fitted management, I guess because of potential problems caused by bad fitting etc..

 

Thats pretty similar to what jano told me at fordfair, understandable really, its the tuners reputation on the line esp with the bitching and slating which goes on online

 

Yeah there is a lot of that for sure!!

 

They can't charge an extortionate amount for fitting the management you mean lol.....i've seen some rough work come out of 'tuners' and know for a fact that there's a fair few home builders whose work is of a very good standard.

 

mapping is quite easy fella, there is a program that uses datalogs that you do when driving and analyses it to get it mapped close.
you do need a wideband afr setup though.
dead easy though, wiring is a bit of a pain till you understand that the ecu earths the connections for moving valves and solenoids, so positive feeds go to the other pins on these.
you're not far away so if you get stuck, give me a shout.
mine is running and idles well, not been out for a propper mapping yet as my table scales were way out.
i believe MSD will map it though, only rumour however.

 

cheers xr2wishy