Widebands... - A little knowledge is a dangerous thing?
Widebands... - A little knowledge is a dangerous thing?
As title guys - I've spent the last couple of hours searching through all of the threads on here, and seem to be no closer to deciding which one would be suitable for what I'm after...
All i really want is one that will whow me when the car is running lean, is reliable, and preferably has an alarm...(if any of them do - I think the tech edge jobbie does?)
It needs to fit into a 52mm a pillar mount...
So, what fits the bill....? I'm liking the look of the new Stack...... BUT i've not read any reports on this, so I guess the Tech-edge wins ? - but can it do all of the above... - or not?
I've also read that the innovates are good....BUT the wiring needs to be perfect....The main benefit of these is the sensor will essentially tell you when its sligthly past its peak?...
Any comments..?
All i really want is one that will whow me when the car is running lean, is reliable, and preferably has an alarm...(if any of them do - I think the tech edge jobbie does?)
It needs to fit into a 52mm a pillar mount...
So, what fits the bill....? I'm liking the look of the new Stack...... BUT i've not read any reports on this, so I guess the Tech-edge wins ? - but can it do all of the above... - or not?
I've also read that the innovates are good....BUT the wiring needs to be perfect....The main benefit of these is the sensor will essentially tell you when its sligthly past its peak?...
Any comments..?
http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ZR-2/ZR-2.htm
these are brilliant i use the lcd square gauge but above is the 52mm one
these are brilliant i use the lcd square gauge but above is the 52mm one
Bodybuilding
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Innovate xd16
Been running in my cossie 2 years its been spot on but has you say the wiring has got to be spot on or you will get error codes or burn out the lambda sensor i got my mate to fit mine hes a qualified electrician
Been running in my cossie 2 years its been spot on but has you say the wiring has got to be spot on or you will get error codes or burn out the lambda sensor i got my mate to fit mine hes a qualified electrician
Last edited by G2RSR; Apr 5, 2008 at 04:52 PM.
.
just finding my feet
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seen what sensor it uses, the bosch ls4 is the more common but i was told there a little dated and fail quicker
the AFR i got uses a NGK sensor,,,, its not a better sensor though but seems to be more reliable,,,,,, if you ignore the fact its 3 times the fucking price ( and i dont sell NGK stuff but am a bosch agent,,, ARGHHHH )
alot of the newer ones seem to work very well,, think the last 4 years have seen the products more accessable and better
remember that oily engines ( the ones that burn oil ) can cause sensors to fail very fast same as leaded fuel and something else,,,, though cant remember as ive not got it wrote down at home pmsl
mines a cheepo one,,,,, but like any gauge aslong as you know HOW it reads then when its off you notice ( my oil temp reads 70 degress when warm,,, thats too low but i know its up to temp so know where to look when its off )
the AFR i got uses a NGK sensor,,,, its not a better sensor though but seems to be more reliable,,,,,, if you ignore the fact its 3 times the fucking price ( and i dont sell NGK stuff but am a bosch agent,,, ARGHHHH )
alot of the newer ones seem to work very well,, think the last 4 years have seen the products more accessable and better
remember that oily engines ( the ones that burn oil ) can cause sensors to fail very fast same as leaded fuel and something else,,,, though cant remember as ive not got it wrote down at home pmsl
mines a cheepo one,,,,, but like any gauge aslong as you know HOW it reads then when its off you notice ( my oil temp reads 70 degress when warm,,, thats too low but i know its up to temp so know where to look when its off )
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just finding my feet
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From: Im behind you
says nothing tbh, i changed my coffe from starbucks beans to dowe egberts,,,, dont mean there any better,,,,,,
theres no proof why hes done it, hes not mentioned hes old gauge was rubbish hence he needed to changes UNTIL he got a stack gauge and even they i aint heard him mention the reason why ?
just finding my feet
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From: Im behind you
rools im not refering to that, im talking about the " says it all " post
as said mine runs a NGK honda civic 5 wire broadband sensor
most of the other ones use the bosch LSU2 sensor and the newer ones use the lsu4 i think its called
so going from the fact MOST gauges use the SAME sensor tells me most are about as good as the other
different if there was a post here telling the technical reason WHY ones beter than the other
but when bosch tech told me the most comonsensor sold is the ls2 and the other is ls4, that tells me theres not much to them as far as working goes
not knocking the stack, but you was asking what to get,,,,,, not " i want a stack sensor, cinfince me i should "
as said mine runs a NGK honda civic 5 wire broadband sensor
most of the other ones use the bosch LSU2 sensor and the newer ones use the lsu4 i think its called
so going from the fact MOST gauges use the SAME sensor tells me most are about as good as the other
different if there was a post here telling the technical reason WHY ones beter than the other
but when bosch tech told me the most comonsensor sold is the ls2 and the other is ls4, that tells me theres not much to them as far as working goes
not knocking the stack, but you was asking what to get,,,,,, not " i want a stack sensor, cinfince me i should "
I,ve an innovate one 52mm ano gauge BUT the wiring needs to be prefect and the instructions are crap!! only found out a few things after a visit to there web forum
I should have gone for a stack but is that digital (the gauge is)
At the end of the day its up to you and what u like the look of.
Paul
I should have gone for a stack but is that digital (the gauge is)
At the end of the day its up to you and what u like the look of.
Paul
rools im not refering to that, im talking about the " says it all " post
as said mine runs a NGK honda civic 5 wire broadband sensor
most of the other ones use the bosch LSU2 sensor and the newer ones use the lsu4 i think its called
so going from the fact MOST gauges use the SAME sensor tells me most are about as good as the other
different if there was a post here telling the technical reason WHY ones beter than the other
but when bosch tech told me the most comonsensor sold is the ls2 and the other is ls4, that tells me theres not much to them as far as working goes
not knocking the stack, but you was asking what to get,,,,,, not " i want a stack sensor, cinfince me i should "
as said mine runs a NGK honda civic 5 wire broadband sensor
most of the other ones use the bosch LSU2 sensor and the newer ones use the lsu4 i think its called
so going from the fact MOST gauges use the SAME sensor tells me most are about as good as the other
different if there was a post here telling the technical reason WHY ones beter than the other
but when bosch tech told me the most comonsensor sold is the ls2 and the other is ls4, that tells me theres not much to them as far as working goes
not knocking the stack, but you was asking what to get,,,,,, not " i want a stack sensor, cinfince me i should "
NGK or NTK sensor ??
Paul
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
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From: West Sussex
Have you looked at the combined EGT and Wideband Lambda that VEMs produce?
Think they are about Ł260 inc VAT for both the EGT/Lambda/Gauge.
Christian at APT does them i think - or you can get them from driftworks.
Think they are about Ł260 inc VAT for both the EGT/Lambda/Gauge.
Christian at APT does them i think - or you can get them from driftworks.
i just got the innovative kit and looking at the instructions it seems a nightmare to fit.. i dont suppose anyone who has recently fitted one could give me some pointers.. ?
just finding my feet
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From: Im behind you
says nothing tbh, i changed my coffe from starbucks beans to dowe egberts,,,, dont mean there any better,,,,,,
theres no proof why hes done it, hes not mentioned hes old gauge was rubbish hence he needed to changes UNTIL he got a stack gauge and even they i aint heard him mention the reason why ?
theres no proof why hes done it, hes not mentioned hes old gauge was rubbish hence he needed to changes UNTIL he got a stack gauge and even they i aint heard him mention the reason why ?
Rod replaced his old Dyno-Tune one with the new Stack one because it was so good.
It uses the Bosch sensor also
And for those that do not like the digital reading, it has a programable safe point, which it then interprits into the displaying LEDs around the outside so at a quick glance you can see if you're good or not!!
It uses the Bosch sensor also
And for those that do not like the digital reading, it has a programable safe point, which it then interprits into the displaying LEDs around the outside so at a quick glance you can see if you're good or not!!
hate to be argumentative but i think it was this one in particular
http://www.turbobits.co.uk/acatalog/..._Wideband.html
http://www.turbobits.co.uk/acatalog/..._Wideband.html
so, based on what i'm reading here, it's the actual sensor thats prone to fail more often that the actual gauge doing the gauging and the display doing the displaying of what the gauge is reading?
i've also heard that lambda's tend to start going tits up from as little as 20.000 miles and should be changed at least every 50-80,k?
right or wrong?
i've also heard that lambda's tend to start going tits up from as little as 20.000 miles and should be changed at least every 50-80,k?
right or wrong?
Rod replaced his old Dyno-Tune one with the new Stack one because it was so good.
It uses the Bosch sensor also
And for those that do not like the digital reading, it has a programable safe point, which it then interprits into the displaying LEDs around the outside so at a quick glance you can see if you're good or not!!
It uses the Bosch sensor also
And for those that do not like the digital reading, it has a programable safe point, which it then interprits into the displaying LEDs around the outside so at a quick glance you can see if you're good or not!!
Interesting...didn't know that!
Good stuff!
PassionFord Post Whore!!
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the one we have in our track car was checked against the one on thr rolling road last week, the guys on the rolling road was Ł3K and it read near on identical, we bought it from christan and becky, in traders parts VEMS.
The bloke was well impressed with it, was about Ł250 with EGT as well.
The bloke was well impressed with it, was about Ł250 with EGT as well.
just finding my feet
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Posts: 41,052
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From: Im behind you
so, based on what i'm reading here, it's the actual sensor thats prone to fail more often that the actual gauge doing the gauging and the display doing the displaying of what the gauge is reading?
i've also heard that lambda's tend to start going tits up from as little as 20.000 miles and should be changed at least every 50-80,k?
right or wrong?
i've also heard that lambda's tend to start going tits up from as little as 20.000 miles and should be changed at least every 50-80,k?
right or wrong?
depending on the engine they last around 30k miles, some longer
alot depends on what its subject too, worn engines burn oil that causes the sensor to fail quicker
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just finding my feet
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From: Im behind you
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Here is an extract from a post I wrote a couple of years back:
The key point to realise, is due to the signal conditioning abilities of the innovate controller, it is totally independent of the calibration resistor found in the sensor. It's a fact that this calibration resistor drifts with time altering the reading. Big money sensors are essentially identical sensors, but with precisely know resistor values - this guarantees accuracy for the first 12 hours of use or so when used for mapping. Doing away with the resistor all together obviously gives significant advantages.
Rick.
There are quite a few differences between the LM-1 and other widebands.
1. The LM-1 can datalog internally, no need for a laptop while logging.
2. You can use an Autometer gauge, voltmeter, or any other analog AFR gauge as remote display. Even the one PLX sells. The PLX gauge is a voltmeter, calibrated to their analog outs, not a full digital gauge. With the programmable analog outs of the LM-1 you can adapt it to anything you like.
The upcoming XD-1 display is fully digital and reads directly the digital datastream coming from the LM-1, independent of analog voltage drifts and ground issues.
3. The LM-1 firmware is downloadable. New features can be added by just reflashing the unit with the included software. New firmware can be downloaded for free from out web-site.
4. The biggest difference is actually the (pat. pend.) measurement principle of the LM-1. Different from all other widebands it does NOT use the pump current as AFR indication. Instead it uses the sensor to form with the LM-1 circuit what's called a delta-sigma analog to digital converter. The difference is that the analog signal in this case is not a voltage or current, but directly the exhaust gas composition. This allows it to:
A: react extremely fast with no settling or overswing
B: be independent of electronic parts tolerances and drifts
C: compensate for sensor drift due to aging every time you do a free air calibration.
D: calibrate for the actual sensor characteristic independent of the factory calibration resistor, which is only correct when the sensor is new.
E: is much less susceptible to exhaust back pressure.
Another advantage of that measurement principle is automatic compensation for 'rich gas loading'. This is an effect most WB manufacturers do not compensate for or even know of. When a WB sensor is operating in a rich gas for a prolonged time (minutes), it's cells 'load up' and slowly drift, requiring more and more pump current. This will indicate richer and richer than it actually is. If the ECU is WB controlled in closed loop, the engine would actually run leaner and leaner to compensate.
The LM-1's measurement principle is not susceptible to that.
1. The LM-1 can datalog internally, no need for a laptop while logging.
2. You can use an Autometer gauge, voltmeter, or any other analog AFR gauge as remote display. Even the one PLX sells. The PLX gauge is a voltmeter, calibrated to their analog outs, not a full digital gauge. With the programmable analog outs of the LM-1 you can adapt it to anything you like.
The upcoming XD-1 display is fully digital and reads directly the digital datastream coming from the LM-1, independent of analog voltage drifts and ground issues.
3. The LM-1 firmware is downloadable. New features can be added by just reflashing the unit with the included software. New firmware can be downloaded for free from out web-site.
4. The biggest difference is actually the (pat. pend.) measurement principle of the LM-1. Different from all other widebands it does NOT use the pump current as AFR indication. Instead it uses the sensor to form with the LM-1 circuit what's called a delta-sigma analog to digital converter. The difference is that the analog signal in this case is not a voltage or current, but directly the exhaust gas composition. This allows it to:
A: react extremely fast with no settling or overswing
B: be independent of electronic parts tolerances and drifts
C: compensate for sensor drift due to aging every time you do a free air calibration.
D: calibrate for the actual sensor characteristic independent of the factory calibration resistor, which is only correct when the sensor is new.
E: is much less susceptible to exhaust back pressure.
Another advantage of that measurement principle is automatic compensation for 'rich gas loading'. This is an effect most WB manufacturers do not compensate for or even know of. When a WB sensor is operating in a rich gas for a prolonged time (minutes), it's cells 'load up' and slowly drift, requiring more and more pump current. This will indicate richer and richer than it actually is. If the ECU is WB controlled in closed loop, the engine would actually run leaner and leaner to compensate.
The LM-1's measurement principle is not susceptible to that.
Rick.
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