So it was HAMILTON at fault, not Alonso!
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So it was HAMILTON at fault, not Alonso!
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http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlin...04200238.shtml
[04/08/07 - 20:02]
Hamilton triggered pit controversy - Alonso
Making back a lap from the fuel burn phase...
More than four hours after the incident at the end of Hungarian GP qualifying, the Fernando Alonso versus Lewis Hamilton pit stop controversy is still sizzling.
Pole sitter Alonso, under investigation from the stewards, told Spanish publications including the newspaper Marca that the intricate timing of McLaren's qualifying strategy got out of sequence because Hamilton ignored an instruction from the pit wall.
Team boss Ron Dennis, who was visibly angry despite seeing his cars qualify first and second, confirmed the news to reporters in Budapest.
"Lewis should have slowed and let Fernando past," Dennis said. "And he didn't. He charged off."
But Alonso has threatened to widen the tension with his British teammate and team even further by speculating as to why so many long faces could be seen in McLaren overalls after qualifying.
"Because I am first and Hamilton is second," he told Marca. "This is something that is very hard for me to say, but that is what I see.
"
Alonso added that Hamilton had been asked during the 'Q3' phase on Saturday to let him past, "but he did not do it," the Spaniard said.
"That was the only problem within the team today. The annoyance of Dennis and the annoyance of everyone was because Hamilton did not accept an order that was repeated to him on the radio five or six times," Alonso added.
After Hamilton's radio order refusal, Alonso said the pit stop delay was to rectify the fact that he had lost a lap in the crucial 'fuel burn' phase.
Apparently... However it is not clear why that is relevant in terms of qualification ‘blocking’, which traditionally earns a penalty...
[04/08/07 - 20:02]
Hamilton triggered pit controversy - Alonso
Making back a lap from the fuel burn phase...
More than four hours after the incident at the end of Hungarian GP qualifying, the Fernando Alonso versus Lewis Hamilton pit stop controversy is still sizzling.
Pole sitter Alonso, under investigation from the stewards, told Spanish publications including the newspaper Marca that the intricate timing of McLaren's qualifying strategy got out of sequence because Hamilton ignored an instruction from the pit wall.
Team boss Ron Dennis, who was visibly angry despite seeing his cars qualify first and second, confirmed the news to reporters in Budapest.
"Lewis should have slowed and let Fernando past," Dennis said. "And he didn't. He charged off."
But Alonso has threatened to widen the tension with his British teammate and team even further by speculating as to why so many long faces could be seen in McLaren overalls after qualifying.
"Because I am first and Hamilton is second," he told Marca. "This is something that is very hard for me to say, but that is what I see.
"
Alonso added that Hamilton had been asked during the 'Q3' phase on Saturday to let him past, "but he did not do it," the Spaniard said.
"That was the only problem within the team today. The annoyance of Dennis and the annoyance of everyone was because Hamilton did not accept an order that was repeated to him on the radio five or six times," Alonso added.
After Hamilton's radio order refusal, Alonso said the pit stop delay was to rectify the fact that he had lost a lap in the crucial 'fuel burn' phase.
Apparently... However it is not clear why that is relevant in terms of qualification ‘blocking’, which traditionally earns a penalty...
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He was doing his nut and said that he would find out what happene and deal with it ... if it was like he said in those stroies he would have said so instantly!
You know when people tell a REALLY long - they are usually trying to hid the truth in the detail
You know when people tell a REALLY long - they are usually trying to hid the truth in the detail
hamiltons bin pissing on alonso front yard all season and this weekend has been no difference hamilton has been 4 tenths quicker in most of the practices and quaily so if this is the case alnso wont be first for long
Originally Posted by AlexF
He was doing his nut and said that he would find out what happene and deal with it ... if it was like he said in those stroies he would have said so instantly!
You know when people tell a REALLY long - they are usually trying to hid the truth in the detail
You know when people tell a REALLY long - they are usually trying to hid the truth in the detail
in a way, he was defending alonso more than he was slating lewis so it all ends up even
the man is a hyporcite in my onion but at least he's trying to salvage the season
it's looking like his drivers will be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
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Lewis was allegedly rude over the radio at the end of qualifiying causing Ron to throw his headphones down in disgust.
I don't think it was fair to demote Alsonso, I don't think any rules were broken, ok if it was tactical/revenge on his part certainly not very sporting, but should he have been penalised in the actual race because of it?
At the same time Lewis did disobey orders to let Alsonso past, it must be difficult when your told to do something but you can see it may not be to your advantage to do so..
Z
I don't think it was fair to demote Alsonso, I don't think any rules were broken, ok if it was tactical/revenge on his part certainly not very sporting, but should he have been penalised in the actual race because of it?
At the same time Lewis did disobey orders to let Alsonso past, it must be difficult when your told to do something but you can see it may not be to your advantage to do so..
Z
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Originally Posted by collierm
What a load of bollocks, if Ron knew all that, then why did he throw his headset at the screens when Alonso didn't move.
More excuses. Tut tut
More excuses. Tut tut
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Originally Posted by collierm
What a load of bollocks, if Ron knew all that, then why did he throw his headset at the screens when Alonso didn't move.
More excuses. Tut tut
More excuses. Tut tut
But Lewis DID start the row off by not moving over...
I have lost a little respect for Lewis actually.
Team orders are Team orders...
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From: UK
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by collierm
What a load of bollocks, if Ron knew all that, then why did he throw his headset at the screens when Alonso didn't move.
More excuses. Tut tut
More excuses. Tut tut
But Lewis DID start the row off by not moving over...
I have lost a little respect for Lewis actually.
Team orders are Team orders...
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) Obviously the seeds of the win were sewn yesterday. I wonder if you can clear a couple of things up. First of all, the team said that this was one of the tracks where it wasn’t possible to do the same number of burn-off laps but then when you do the maths it seems as if it is. And secondly, the reason why you didn’t respect the agreement for Fernando to get out (of the pits) first. I think you said Kimi was close and I think you said you didn’t agree with it. Could you just elaborate a little bit please?
LH: Firstly, I finished my Q2 time first, so I came into the pits. They cooled down my car quickest, so I was at the end of the pit lane first, which is always the aim for me. It’s what I like to do, I like to be out first. When I was at the end of the pit lane, they reminded me ‘Lewis, let Fernando past’ and I saw that Fernando was sort of staggered to the right of me and Kimi was very very close behind that. So I immediately thought, OK, we can let Fernando past as long as we don’t let Kimi past because that puts me out of sync and could ruin my qualifying run. So I had to take a split (second) decision. I got round the first corner, I thought ‘OK, if Fernando keeps with me, we will both make it, we’ll both have the pace.’ So I pushed, I don’t know why he didn’t, but he dropped off quite a bit. I was told to let Fernando past later on but he was miles behind so I just kept going.
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) And the fuel burn?
LH: I think it’s only at certain tracks you are able to do it, so they say, and here is one where you definitely can do it and I think if he had stayed right with me, we both would have got an extra lap. I think that would have been right.
LH: Firstly, I finished my Q2 time first, so I came into the pits. They cooled down my car quickest, so I was at the end of the pit lane first, which is always the aim for me. It’s what I like to do, I like to be out first. When I was at the end of the pit lane, they reminded me ‘Lewis, let Fernando past’ and I saw that Fernando was sort of staggered to the right of me and Kimi was very very close behind that. So I immediately thought, OK, we can let Fernando past as long as we don’t let Kimi past because that puts me out of sync and could ruin my qualifying run. So I had to take a split (second) decision. I got round the first corner, I thought ‘OK, if Fernando keeps with me, we will both make it, we’ll both have the pace.’ So I pushed, I don’t know why he didn’t, but he dropped off quite a bit. I was told to let Fernando past later on but he was miles behind so I just kept going.
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) And the fuel burn?
LH: I think it’s only at certain tracks you are able to do it, so they say, and here is one where you definitely can do it and I think if he had stayed right with me, we both would have got an extra lap. I think that would have been right.
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all seems a bit silly between the two imo, just petty bitchiness. i agree if ts team orders hamilton should take it on the chin and do it no matter if it fucks his own chances up. and alonso imo is just a jumped up cockend whos gettin to be made stupid by a rookie. at least hamilton is showing why he is better on the track by consistently kicking alonso's spanish arse at most of the grand prix. 
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Originally Posted by Redkop
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by collierm
What a load of bollocks, if Ron knew all that, then why did he throw his headset at the screens when Alonso didn't move.
More excuses. Tut tut
More excuses. Tut tut
But Lewis DID start the row off by not moving over...
I have lost a little respect for Lewis actually.
Team orders are Team orders...
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) Obviously the seeds of the win were sewn yesterday. I wonder if you can clear a couple of things up. First of all, the team said that this was one of the tracks where it wasn’t possible to do the same number of burn-off laps but then when you do the maths it seems as if it is. And secondly, the reason why you didn’t respect the agreement for Fernando to get out (of the pits) first. I think you said Kimi was close and I think you said you didn’t agree with it. Could you just elaborate a little bit please?
LH: Firstly, I finished my Q2 time first, so I came into the pits. They cooled down my car quickest, so I was at the end of the pit lane first, which is always the aim for me. It’s what I like to do, I like to be out first. When I was at the end of the pit lane, they reminded me ‘Lewis, let Fernando past’ and I saw that Fernando was sort of staggered to the right of me and Kimi was very very close behind that. So I immediately thought, OK, we can let Fernando past as long as we don’t let Kimi past because that puts me out of sync and could ruin my qualifying run. So I had to take a split (second) decision. I got round the first corner, I thought ‘OK, if Fernando keeps with me, we will both make it, we’ll both have the pace.’ So I pushed, I don’t know why he didn’t, but he dropped off quite a bit. I was told to let Fernando past later on but he was miles behind so I just kept going.
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) And the fuel burn?
LH: I think it’s only at certain tracks you are able to do it, so they say, and here is one where you definitely can do it and I think if he had stayed right with me, we both would have got an extra lap. I think that would have been right.
LH: Firstly, I finished my Q2 time first, so I came into the pits. They cooled down my car quickest, so I was at the end of the pit lane first, which is always the aim for me. It’s what I like to do, I like to be out first. When I was at the end of the pit lane, they reminded me ‘Lewis, let Fernando past’ and I saw that Fernando was sort of staggered to the right of me and Kimi was very very close behind that. So I immediately thought, OK, we can let Fernando past as long as we don’t let Kimi past because that puts me out of sync and could ruin my qualifying run. So I had to take a split (second) decision. I got round the first corner, I thought ‘OK, if Fernando keeps with me, we will both make it, we’ll both have the pace.’ So I pushed, I don’t know why he didn’t, but he dropped off quite a bit. I was told to let Fernando past later on but he was miles behind so I just kept going.
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) And the fuel burn?
LH: I think it’s only at certain tracks you are able to do it, so they say, and here is one where you definitely can do it and I think if he had stayed right with me, we both would have got an extra lap. I think that would have been right.
The end....
I have been Hamiltons biggest fan this year and think he is an amazing talent... but as I said I lost alot of respect for him after that.
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From: UK
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by Redkop
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by collierm
What a load of bollocks, if Ron knew all that, then why did he throw his headset at the screens when Alonso didn't move.
More excuses. Tut tut
More excuses. Tut tut
But Lewis DID start the row off by not moving over...
I have lost a little respect for Lewis actually.
Team orders are Team orders...
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) Obviously the seeds of the win were sewn yesterday. I wonder if you can clear a couple of things up. First of all, the team said that this was one of the tracks where it wasn’t possible to do the same number of burn-off laps but then when you do the maths it seems as if it is. And secondly, the reason why you didn’t respect the agreement for Fernando to get out (of the pits) first. I think you said Kimi was close and I think you said you didn’t agree with it. Could you just elaborate a little bit please?
LH: Firstly, I finished my Q2 time first, so I came into the pits. They cooled down my car quickest, so I was at the end of the pit lane first, which is always the aim for me. It’s what I like to do, I like to be out first. When I was at the end of the pit lane, they reminded me ‘Lewis, let Fernando past’ and I saw that Fernando was sort of staggered to the right of me and Kimi was very very close behind that. So I immediately thought, OK, we can let Fernando past as long as we don’t let Kimi past because that puts me out of sync and could ruin my qualifying run. So I had to take a split (second) decision. I got round the first corner, I thought ‘OK, if Fernando keeps with me, we will both make it, we’ll both have the pace.’ So I pushed, I don’t know why he didn’t, but he dropped off quite a bit. I was told to let Fernando past later on but he was miles behind so I just kept going.
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) And the fuel burn?
LH: I think it’s only at certain tracks you are able to do it, so they say, and here is one where you definitely can do it and I think if he had stayed right with me, we both would have got an extra lap. I think that would have been right.
LH: Firstly, I finished my Q2 time first, so I came into the pits. They cooled down my car quickest, so I was at the end of the pit lane first, which is always the aim for me. It’s what I like to do, I like to be out first. When I was at the end of the pit lane, they reminded me ‘Lewis, let Fernando past’ and I saw that Fernando was sort of staggered to the right of me and Kimi was very very close behind that. So I immediately thought, OK, we can let Fernando past as long as we don’t let Kimi past because that puts me out of sync and could ruin my qualifying run. So I had to take a split (second) decision. I got round the first corner, I thought ‘OK, if Fernando keeps with me, we will both make it, we’ll both have the pace.’ So I pushed, I don’t know why he didn’t, but he dropped off quite a bit. I was told to let Fernando past later on but he was miles behind so I just kept going.
Q: (Tony Dodgins – Autosport) And the fuel burn?
LH: I think it’s only at certain tracks you are able to do it, so they say, and here is one where you definitely can do it and I think if he had stayed right with me, we both would have got an extra lap. I think that would have been right.
The end....
I have been Hamiltons biggest fan this year and think he is an amazing talent... but as I said I lost alot of respect for him after that.
It's 2 prima donnas thinking they have the God given right to do what the hell they choose over Team orders. Sadly, you find this in nearly all top competetive sports now... and these superstars see it, that it has to be done if you want to get on.
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Porkie dont be so fucking gay their race car drivers FFS hot heads who wanna go toe to toe and win at all cost 
some call it cheating or a poor show of sportsman ship... but then who remembers those people cos they never win exploring the rules I call it 
Shuey was a great driver but would win at all cost even if he lost friends or respect for it 
how many times was he champ again 
some call it cheating or a poor show of sportsman ship... but then who remembers those people cos they never win
exploring the rules I call it Shuey was a great driver but would win at all cost even if he lost friends or respect for it how many times was he champ again
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Originally Posted by Redkop
SIX times where did you read that then? What about loss of respect for Alonso then, did you condone what he did?
the link YOU posted for one...
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlin...04200238.shtml
Alonso was BANG out of order.... Lewis started it though. He should have more respect for his Team and Ron Dennis.
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It doesn't turn anything around.
Alonso knew that he had to pass Hamilton. Hamilton knew he had to let Alonso past. Why would Alonso hang back? If Hamilton let him by he would then hold Hamilton up and therefore putting him out of Qualifying.
Doesn't change shit IMO. Alonso was bang out of order.
Alonso knew that he had to pass Hamilton. Hamilton knew he had to let Alonso past. Why would Alonso hang back? If Hamilton let him by he would then hold Hamilton up and therefore putting him out of Qualifying.
Doesn't change shit IMO. Alonso was bang out of order.
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From: UK
Originally Posted by Porkie
Originally Posted by Redkop
SIX times where did you read that then? What about loss of respect for Alonso then, did you condone what he did?
the link YOU posted for one...
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlin...04200238.shtml
Alonso was BANG out of order.... Lewis started it though. He should have more respect for his Team and Ron Dennis.
Alonso lied about everything else, like "I waited in front of Hamilton because I was checking whether the correct tyres had been fitted to his car" so why should anyone believe him now claiming 5 or 6 times?
It does ask the question also like mentioned by Terry Tibbs.... WHY didn't Gonso overtake Lewis if he'd heard the order 5 or 6 times?
Good on Hamilton I say
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Originally Posted by Porkie
I have been Hamiltons biggest fan this year and think he is an amazing talent... but as I said I lost alot of respect for him after that.
The last driver to tell Dennis where to go was some Brazilian fella. Sen-ha or something.
Bottom line is that Lewis is making a big point here. "I'll do what the team wants up to a certain point. Then if it doesnt fit with MY aims, I'll do what I want" Where Ayrton had an advantage was that he was far more seasoned than Lewis and Ron had to accept (mostly) his terms if he wanted to keep him at the team. Which he of course did but soured the relationship to Alain which made him go to Ferrari.
Personally I think thats a risky avenue for Lewis to take, especially with a team so controlled as McLaren. However, the relations between Ron and Lewis (and Anthony) will smooth this over before Turkey. The main issue will be whether things can be patched up with Alonso. Renault have said they would take him back if he wanted to return. FA's contract is to the end of 08, but theirs options on both sides. Remember that FA was under the impression he would be No.1 as his team mate (whoever it was to be) would be a lesser driver. He's a driver that needs "the hug" and to be made feel special. Something Flavio does far better than Ron. Renault or rather Briatore, knew that to win championships like MSC did no parity, no equality. As FA was with them for 5 years. Its not something hes aclimitising easily to at McLaren.
The whole Qualy/pit lane thing was really a case of airing the laundry. Which ultimately buggered everyone. IMO
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