Do i need insurance for my Fiesta when I go to the Nurburgring in April?

If so , who is the best to deal with

Thanks in advance for any advise

 

Just inform your insurance company that you'll be going to europe and they'll note it down on your insurance policy. You don't need specific insurnace for the ;ring as it isnt a track, its legally a "toll road"

 

Actually, do READ the small print...most insurance have that in the small print and they said they will not cover you if you use the ring.

Don't take the risk!

 

5ne 5s c6vered as 36ng as n6t t50ed 6r rac5ng

 

Re-type that in english paul

 

I got a real good quote from Adrian Flux for the cr with all the modifications included, but when I mentioned id be going to Germany in April with the car, they said if I was going to the Ring the policy wouldnt cover any liability for armco, other cars or stoppages

 

ffs sorry NUMS LOCK
Right i am insured as long as i am not timed or racing
so

 

 

Lots of companies say that, but i believe that in reality under german law they HAVE to cover those things, as those things are third parties, and thats what insurance liability is there to cover you against.

They are probably perfectly within their rights to not pay out on your own car though as there is no legal requirement for insurance to include such things.


Thats my take on it, but im sure Tony@Greenlight can provide the industry view, although wether he will admit that some things some insurers claim isnt actually legal in a court of law is another matter, LOL

 

agreed mate, if they specifically name the Nurburgring then get extra cover but if they dont and something happens then they HAVE to pay out as is classed as a one way public toll road.

 

I'm sorry mate but I don't think he will....

Time and again I have posted asking for a REAL answer to the question but he won't get back to us

But as far as I can see IF you are allowed to drive with your insurance in Germany then you are covered at the Ring. The reason is simple, its a toll road under German law and it is German law that applies to your policy if you have an accident in their country!

Alex

 

apaart from the facts about driving on the 'ring (whatever they are), you are automatically covered 3rd party in europe, but not necessarily fully comp (depends on policy and informing the company of dates etc)

 

Tony @ Greenlight informed me I WOULD NOT be covered at the Ring when I advised them I was going to Germany.

It is was mainly this reason, together with a ludicrous price rise that made me stop using GREENLIGHT.

I now use BONCASTER - Great price, though have yet to find out their stance on Ring Insurance.

Si

 

The only way he could not cover you for third party in Germany (as part of europe) would be to withdraw cover. I belive as part of the EU rules, they have to provide you with a basic level of 3rd party cover abroad.

I have heard of people who have the Nurburgring specifically exlucded at the ring, and their insurers have still had to pay for all the third party liabilities as this particular ruling does not hold up in German law!

Please dont rely on this, I may be wrong.

JJ

 

so we are back to this topic

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...r=asc&start=38

see my comment on page 2... to which Tony hasn't replied

Alex

 

i was told once that many insurance companies say that you are not covered on "privately owned toll roads"
apparently the ring is the only one of them.

dont quote me on this as it is 3rd hand.
but just thought i'd stick it up incase it was any good to anyone

 

Are you coming to the ring mate??? and what car you bringing????

 

In that case you can't go over the QE2 bridge, use the M6 toll or get in and out of walse on the M4......

sounds like the kind of rubbish they usually say to me lol

 

We have attempted to comment upon the issue of the ring before and have referred the issue of the ring to several of our Insurers for clarification.

Every one of them regard the ring as a grey area, as does every mainland UK policy that I've ever encountered in the 20 years that I have worked within the Insurance industry.

A number of Insurers do state that they exclude the ring verbally and some include this within their policy documentation.

As far as Greenlight's scheme Insurers are concerned, at this point in time their current documentation does not specify a specific exclusion mentioning the Ring (other than the industry standard exclusion of "pacemaking, time trials" etc. upon Uk Insurer certificates)

I know from our comments on here it looks like we're "one of them" in terms of what we do and how we comment, but I wish to make the point that as a broker we are an agent that is wholly employed by the client to works for you.

By commenting upon here as we do in respect of Insurance issues, we do represent an "industry target". Perhaps you'd like to call your own respective Insurers to obtain a definitive Underwriter by Underwriter list from all Insurers as to their individual stance which could then be advised to the PF community at large.

If you're dealing with 'call centres' who have a tendancy to change their mind, I would recommend obtaining written evidence prior to posting advice publicly on here.

Our advice given to date on this subject is off the back of numerous conversations that we have had when trying to pin our Underwriters down to a definitive position upon the Ring.

It seems that UK Insurers will Individually maintain their position of exclusion of the ring and their stance would be to repudiate any claim presented.

With the Ring being a German "B" road equivalent, as identified it would potentially mean that by it's exclusion the Insurer would be in contravention of EU Law.

All Insurers' would mount an argument on the basis that as a commercial entity they state their "do's & dont's" and would be free to exclude what they wished providing they were up front about it (ie. advise you prior to your trip).

A trip to the Ring would be regarded as "material information", which under duty of disclosure would place the onus upon the policyholder to firstly disclose a potential trip to the Ring when arranging their annual cover and secondly to seek advice prior to travelling as to whether this was covered.

Then if they advise "no", your only recourse would be to mount an action against them via an EU Law specialist. Any action taken that went to court would set a precident for that individual Insurer.

I do recognise that this is a technical aspect, but at this stage until a precident has been set for each individal Insurer paying a claim on the ring you would have to challenge your Insurer by using a solicitor that specialised in RTA Law.

My personal view is that they are going about this the wrong way. They should overtly offer cover for the Ring and charge as an extension to the policy to reflect the heightened risk whilst on the Ring.

As for those of you that are with Greenlight I can assure you that we would fight our clients corner with the Underwriter in question should the need arise and we are fully aware as to any precidents set to date by the Insurers that we place business with.

I'd welcome your comments on here as to the definitive position of all other UK Insurance providers

Kind regards

Tony

 

In my opinion, if I inform my insurer that I am going to be driving my car in Germany, then that means that I have disclosed the fact that it will be used on A/B/Motorway roads in germany by definition, and I do not feel that I need to explictly inform them of the road number of nickname of every road in germany that I intend to drive along.

Would you say that my belief that my saying "Im going to be driving my car in germany" implies that I am informing the insurer that I am driving my car at the ring?
Or do you feel that it needs to be more explicit with regards to every single road I intend to drive along during my trip to germany, some of which I may or may not drive more than once, ie the road to and from the hotel which I could drive as many as 30 or 40 times in a weekend, just like I may do driving the ring?

 

This would have been following a request to your Underwriter/Insurer who would have provided their company stance.


I'd be intrigued as to the "ludicous price" offered and would welcome the opportunity to check your record to investigate.


Boncaster Insurance are a the direct broking arm of Equity Red Star, who were subject to a take over by the Australasian owners of Hastings Insurance within the last 2 weeks.

Traditionally, Boncaster have administered the RS Owners club scheme following on from Bryan Kesyk & Partners. The RSOC scheme business is placed via Equity Red Star Insurance on what appears to be a classic/custom limited mileage basis.

As you know, Greenlight are not advocates for "working the system" by using classic or traders policies as a cheap way of covering heavily modified vehicles. In the long term, this kind of situation will only end in tears when the scheme loses money.

Classic car schemes are designed for low exposure cherished MGB type risks & if withdrawn through unprofitability due to abuse by covering heavily modified/high performance vehicles often for drivers without NCB, the policyholder is left without NCB due to flat (non-bonus) rating.

Whilst cheap in the short term, the policyholder runs the risk of their NCB earned prior to the policy expiring & having to start from zero NCB once the loophole is closed.


I'd like to add that we are an agent of Equity and having contacted them in the past, can confirm that their advice to us was that they do not offer cover for the ring.

In addition, they advised that their classic/custom policies are often flat rated and do not always accrue or require NCB.

Perhaps you would be so kind as to PM me your details to afford me the opportunity to respond upon the "ludicrous price" issue then contact them for their current position.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards

Tony

 

Thank you for your comments Tony

Those comments seem whoel fair and unbais to me

 

Chip,

As an individual, you're on the level. We've conversed before several times and you're a good guy.

The problem is that everyone appears to be looking for loopholes to exploit, rather than picking up the phone to your Insurers for definitive answers and tackling the Insurer head on.

In the case of the Ring, telling an Insurer that you are going to Germany does not represent a FULL disclosure of material information.

You will all have agreed to/signed a legal declaration when arraning your policy and ALL Insurers have this within their contractual information, which as mentioned places the honus of full disclosure upon the policyholder.

This requirement is open ended in as much as it requires your disclosure of ANY fact or information which may represent a variance in exposure to your policy Underwriters, they also state that if you are unsure as to what to disclose you should disclose all information/items for their assessment in terms of rating.

Anything that represents a heightened exposure is required to be disclosed, thus advising an Underwriter youre going to Germany will not be classed as full disclosure.

As for taking a facetious approach of "do I need to tell them every A or B road im driving upon" to obscure what you are actually doing, would potentially be regarded by your Insurer at best as a contravention of disclosure (non-disclosure) and at worst a pre-meditated attempt to defraud an Insurer.

Lets be straight here, the reason for the trip is to visit the Nurburgring, which can be proven fairly easily by an investigator following an incident on track. It's not just a case of a 'trip to germany which MAY include the ring.

If and when you ever arrange cover via Greenlight, then have a claim upon the ring I would be happy to represent you & fight your corner. As I would with any Greenlight policyholder.

But with Insurers ducking the issue at every opportunity, unless challenged in court and precidents set things are not likely to change.

In the meantime, I'd be interested as to your naming along with comments in respect of the definitive view of your current Insurers - by this im not talking of a clerk in a call centre, im talking of a senior underwriter who confirms the Insurers official stance.

Kind regards

Tony

 

It would be interesting to hear from regular Ring users as to who they are insured with???

 

Hi Diablo,

Thats kind of what I was asking everyone to do within part of my post.

If all PF members could spare 10 mins to request confirmation from their Insurer and provide feedback we would have an outlined list of the situation by Insurer that would help all members considering a Ring trip.

Kind regards

Tony

 

Tony @ Greenlight good idea.

but that requires individuals to be responsible for themselves rather than trying to pass the buck as is so prevalent in our society.

 

sorry tony but from what i can see, its accepted that insurance companies can look for any loophole not to pay out in the event of a claim but its wrong for the punters to find loopholes in their favour

and from what I’ve read on here its still possible to be told from your insurance that you are not covered when in fact you are

 

I have commented many times on here in connection with the Ring and have explained how Insurers view the situation.

In addition I've maintained a presence over the last 3 years and commented on loads of other issues as, when and wherever requested, with a view to helping members.

I do understand that Insurance providers are not the most popular in the world, but dont tar us all with the same brush!

We do a decent job here at Greenlight when given the opportunity to do so, just be honest and explain the full picture - then let us do our job and act as your agent.

What really hinders this (and results in increased premiums or claims being thrown out) is the individuals that seem to feel it acceptable to lie or non-disclose facts to get cheap Insurance.

These individuals also usually end up never returning the requested documentation, despite numerous chasers and often default upon Instalments.

I wish to make the following clear:

1. As a Broker, we are employed by the client (ie. YOU) & not the Insurer

2. We are experienced Insurance professionals who are well versed in the manner that Insurers handle their claims.

3. If an Insurer attempts to unjustly seek a loophole we are able to exert pressure upon them on our clients behalf, plus we are well versed in the mechanics of the complaints processes of both the Financial Ombudsman and all resepctive panel Insurers.

4. We will not stand for our clients claims being unfairly held up or repudiated.


Here endeth the rant on behalf of the Greenlight Insurance party.....

 

speaking to a insurance broker is pointless tbh ( no offence)

the ONLY one to talk to is the insurance ombusman who generally go the way of the customer based on knowing what insurance companies work like

ive complained to a insurance ombusman before for a company canceling my policy and not calling me even though they sent a recorded letter I NEVER SIGNED IT AND WE DONT KNOW THE NAME

i still lost my no claims but got a FULL refund due to it being confirmed them canceling the insurance ment they never sold me insurance !!!

the company said i had to pay for the time they canceled it from YET they canceled it based on me not signing a form,,,,, they still took direct debits for 4 months before stopping aswell as taking a deposit which would indicate they stole the money as i never signed to allow them so how did they allow that many payments


if you have a claim in germany on a public toll road then you complain to them and win,,,,, its simple


insurance companys will pay out before it went to court so they can sell extentions due to them beliving there in the right and will always back down from the insurance ombusman again as a gesture of good faith


sorry mate but you also said that driving a car on the 3rd party extention does not allow driving cars that are not insured in another persons name on here !!!

it was also untrue as i not only produced i also asked the insurance ombusman who told me about people who have been doing it for years and also claimed off it and there insurance company have NEVER asked for proof the cars where insured,,,,,,,,, wierd aint it mate


i DO understand you are trying to help with the belt and braces approach but if they wrote that " we wont cover you if you hit a yellow car" in the actual policy is STILL aint legal and would never make it to court as its not even legal to make it to court

so write to the insurance ombusman and complain about it before you go the ring and see what happens

 

such a ginge post

 

ginge, he's a question, how can said car be LEGALLY on the road if it is not covered by an insurance policy?

 

cause of the cars not parked on the road but on private land when parked it is legal to use that car


when YOU are in the car YOUR insurance covers you whilst you are incontrol of it,,,,,, if you dont belive me ask anyone whos been nicked for driving with no insurance and got there dads to recover there cars as all they have to show is there policy to drive other vehicles,,,,,, its a loop hole thats legal and anoying the legal system

oh and i dont have to worry about anything like that for me mate as my job descripton and title covers me on our self insurance policy,,,,, i can drive the queens car when my insurance finishes and all i need to do is produce a copy of the bonds ford motor company hold and i get of it anyway if my work allowed me to use there policy to drive it,,,,, good job im second in command at my place i guess and have access to files ect but i dont need that as i will no longer own more than one peice of shite car anymore as i given up spunking money on cars,,, hell ive been offered a focus ST3 ex demo on a 55 plate for 35% discount AND 1000 quid road fund bonus if i wanted it and i STILL turned it down


back on the point


also as i was bored i ALSO called about ring insurance,,,,, im covered 3rd party fire and theft for 90 days in a year, i call them when im going and when im back and they deduct that time from the 90,,,,,, anytime AFTER the 90 days are finished im just covered 3rd party,,,,, yes that includes armco JUST LIKE ON A MOTORWAY !!!, it also covers a 1000 bail bond fund to should i get locked up when having a crash and the police dont like the look of my documents ect and choose to arrest me


this is from a insurance company,,,, not a bloke whos guessing or claiming whats true but a actual insurance company !!!! called norwich union who im covered with on behalf of GSI southern insurance who a fellow member recomended to me 18 months ago maybe more and i will be renewing with them next year,,,,, not cause there nice people,,,,, not cause they remember my name/case


JUST CAUSE THERE THE FUCKING CHEEPEST !!!!,,,,,,, 340 per year fully comp on a escort carbrio and it went up 90 quid for the year for a e36 325i with leather trim ( from factory) with a excess of 200 quid and 90 days europe cover but they was 790 quid a year for the cossie bit DID mirror my no claims for nothing but they also removed driving other cars from my licence as i work for a car main dealers



there ya go people


check with your insurance and get a answer cause most people on here spoke shite apart from a man whos got the ring in his sig driving hes sierra estate and we all chose to ignore him and listen to people who aint been to france for the day