My Sapphire 2wd suddently misfired and stoped, engine allways turned well and has compression but it doesn't start.

After changing Ignition Module, Coil, Dizzy Cap, Distributor Rotor Arm, Distributor Phase Sensor, Crank Sensor I can only get sparks on lead connected to No1.

Crank Pulley was missing a tooth and was also replaced.

I even tryed the original 2wd ecu chip.

Well, I have done almost everything with this car now, and don't know what to do more.

I just don't want to turn it to ford dealer, as everytime it goes there besides big invoices I allways get something wrong from them.

I have the workshop manuals, but pictures in it aren't clear, Does anyone have a clear picture on how the phase sensor and dist rotor arm should be positioned?

thanks in advance

 

No ideias?

 

check the wiring & relays to the fuel pump also the fuel cut off under the spare wheel.
as for timing unless the belt has jumped then the timing won't have moved.
when at top dead centre the centre of the rotor arm should be pointing to a small notch in the body of the dizzy.
not 2 sure on the phase sensor though.

 

Thanks for replying.

Everything seams ok. I have checked timing (again) yesterday and is ok, every mark is on it's place (cam pulleys + Crank Pulley + Aux Pulley + Distributor rotor arm).

Fuel is delivered to fuel rail.

Injectors are standard yellows and chip is bailey stage 1 (also tryed with original chip)

Now, the strange things:

- Everytime I turn ignition on (without cranking engine) I can see the engine moving (just a little jump on cams). Seams like if it was adusting it.

- The engine almost started for several times, and when it did, some white smoke came out from the air admission (turbo side from the cone air filter).

This is getting me crazy, because I realy don't know what can I do further.

 

check tha gap on the crank sensor. the missing lug will have initially caused the misfire. but now its down to something u have fitted.
it is possible to get the wires the wrong way round on the phase sensor apparantly.

 

copyed from technical


Engine RPM and tdc Sensor

This sensor is bolted to the engine front end. The crankshaft pulley has 4 identical teeth spaced at precisely 90°. The sensor sends a signal to the module whenever a tooth passes the sensor. From this signal the module determines engine speed (RPM) and the TDC*position of each piston (crankshaft position) .
The gap between the sensor and the teeth on the crankshaft pulley is 0.4 to 1.0 mm and is factory set (see service adjustments).

The Phase Sensor-Distributor

This sensor is located inside the distributor. It's signals (and the signals from the RPM/TDC sensor) enable the ECU to identify the phase of each cylinder following the firing order.
The gap between the sensor and the teeth of the distributor cam is 0.2 to 0.3 mm and is factory set (see service adjustments).

RPM/TDC-Sensor
1 = Tooth on crankshaft pulley
2 = Sensor
A = 0 to 1.0mm

Phase Sensor-Distributor
1 = Sensor
2 = Tooth
A = 0.2 to 0.3 mm

 

Gap at Crank sensor and phase sensor are between values.

Crank Sensor has 0.7mm and phase sensor has 0.25. about the wires I have tested both possible connections also

 

so if the fuel pump is running when you turn the ignition on...

there is a spark, but only at number 1,,

the timing is correct,

have you checked the multiplugs along the back of the engine bay, near where the interior fan draws air in, these can get corroded inside and cause all sorts of problems,,,

may be a silly one, but you do still have the carbon pip in the top of the dizzy cap don't you, they are famous for flying out when you remove the dizzy cap as they are spring loaded...

 

Do you mean were the relays are and so? at the engine bay itself I think I have tested every connection also measured every sensor and tested loom and are ok. All sensor resistor values are within the limits also.

Yep it's there, on both dizzy caps: new and old

I'm just getting very worried about the white smoke it gets from the cone air filter. Don't know if it has to do with all the starting attempts I have made or so.

I had some minor problems in the past with several cars, but this one is getting me crazy. When I reach a point of don't have anything to do it realy irritates me.

 

and there is definatelt 4 lobes on teh bottom crank pulley that the tdc sensor is gapped 0.6mm away from at the lobes..?

you can acyually fit the phase sensor and tdc sensors the wrong way round... may be worth trying swapping the plugs over just to see if it is something as silly...?

 

There are the 4 lobes, the problem started there. the alternator blades broke up and jumped and hit the crank pulley making 1 of the tooth broke, misfired and stop. crank pulley is replaced with one from my friends 3door.

gap is correct, I have tested several gap distances between 0.6 and 1.0mm.

the connectors were also tested in both possible ways, in fact the tdc sensor only fits on 1 way. the phase sensor was tested in both possible connecting ways.

 

it may be a long shot but do you have the coil lead in the correct port on the dizzy cap and the number one plug lead in the coil lead port. its easy to mix up on the 2wd cap.

 

When you did the timing, you did use the lug and not the V notch didn't you ?

 

Timing was done 1 month ago I just have confirmed after the misfire if it was correct and had not slipped or something.

Note that everything is as it was before engine stoped, I just have replaced what I thought it was wrong but in fact nothing was wrong except the crank pulley that was missing 1 tooth and the alternator which are now replaced also.

Every sensor was working fine, every part from the distributor was fine, no cables or plugs were disconnected. And just after engine stoped or now with the new parts it wont start. engine smokes white from the turbo (not from the exhaust) and only get sparks from 1. Anything else is was it was and running for almost 1 month.

 

Check all the relay outputs. With ignition on, you should have 12V at fuel pump, ignition coil, AMAL valve, ISCV, injectors, and ECU pins 10, 20 and 28.

 

All relay seems ok, however when I turn on ignition I just have the fuel pump working for around half a second. Disconnected the fuel filter and turned on igntion: fuel pump starts for less then half a second and stops.

If I connect the fuel pump directly with 12v it works fine, but engine wont start anyway.

Don't know what to do more.

 

so you've worked through this ?

BASIC FAULT FINDING GUIDE FOR COSSIE ECUS by Simon @ SECS

NOTE: Some of these results can be affected by an alarm system or immobilizer. I have assumed the car has a 2.5 bar/3.0 bar map sensor.
If SECS monitor is fitted, unplug it! (A faulty monitor or incorrectly fitted can cause engine not to run)

1) Ensure ignition is OFF.
2) Remove rear of ecu plug cover and insert plug back into ecu.
3) Turn ignition back on (do not start engine)
4) MAIN POWER CHECK: Check for DC voltage of at least 11.5V between ecu pins 19 and 20.
5) REFERENCE CHECK: Check for DC voltage of around 4.8 to 5.2V between pins 11 and 30.
6) MAP SENSOR CHECK: Check for DC voltage of approx 1.8 to 2.5V between pins 11 and 15.
7) THROTTLE CLOSED:
4x4: Check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.
2WD: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
8) THROTTLE FULLY OPEN:
4x4: Check for DC voltage greater than 4.5V between pins 11 and 17.
2WD: check for DC voltage less than 0.5V between pins 11 and 17.
9) Turn ignition off, unplug ecu, and turn ignition back on (don’t forget immobilizer if fitted)
10) CRANK SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 3 and 4 between 300 and 1200 ohms.
11) CRANK SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 3 and 4 while cranking engine - should be at least 2V.
11) PHASE SENSOR: Check resistance between pins 5 and 23 between 300 and 1200 ohms.
12) PHASE SENSOR: Check AC voltage on pins 5 and 23 while cranking engine - should be at least 1.5 - 2V.
12) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 18 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
13) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 35 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
14) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 33 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
15) INJECTOR: Check resistance from pins 32 to 20 should be 2 to 5 ohms.
NOTE: INJECTOR TESTS MAY NEED MAIN RELAY ENERGISED ON L1 and L6 ecus (link pins 1 and 10 first)
16) IGNITION TRIGGER: Read voltage between pins 24 and 25, should be at least 4.5V.
17) IGNITION TEST: BEWARE DANGEROUS VOLTAGES ON PLUG/COIL LEADS.
Quickly link pins 24 and 25 on and off this will FIRE the ignition coil. Rotate dizzy by moving car in gear to point rotor arm at one plug lead and remove spark plug (earthing it on chassis or engine) to see spark. Try for each plug in turn. Or remove king lead at dizzy and place end within 1 centimetre of earth to see a big spark.
18) Place a temporary wire link from pin 1 to pin 10 (energises ecu power relay) - you should hear a click.
19) Quickly link pins 19 to 28 to test fuel pump runs.
20) COOLANT TEMP: Check resistance pins 29 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp)
21) CHARGE TEMP: Check resistance pins 31 and 11 for 800 ohms to 5000 ohms (depends on temp)

Unplug the ecu and turn the ignition on. If the fuel pump runs the relay has been wired to run permanently or the relay is jammed.
However, if the pump is running continuously, this WILL NOT stop the car from starting.

Some chips don’t drive the fuel pump relay output properly as this is used for other features like ALS etc.... (PECTEL/AHMED chips mainly). In these situations, the pump is rewired to run continuously.

If however, the pump is wired correctly and working properly, if it runs continuously when the ecu is plugged in only, then the ECU and/or chip may have failed.

The pump is ok to run continuously

 

Some of ... I was just searching the forum for help and got that post too, I will make the tests tomorrow as in that post and will let you know the results.

btw, thanks for your replies, as you may understand I'm a little lost: I'm in Portugal, not many cosworths here to swap parts and test them, ford dealers some don't even know what a cosworth is lololol and the ones that knows charges more than 60 euros / hour just on manwork.

I was also trying to get another L6 to test it, but didn't find any in Portugal.

 

No problem at all - let us know how you get on

 

Hi again,

everything is ok except one thing:

Fuel Pump don't start.

When I link pins 19 and 28 it starts, but when I turn on ignition key it does not. Relay is ok as I have changed to a new one and problem is the same.

Can this be the ECU?

Everything else seams ok.

 

 

All that matters is that it runs under cranking.

It is common for the L6 to burn out the earth activation track in teh ecu so it will no longer fire the pump but you mentioned earlier you have wired it yourself with 12v and it ran, but the engine did not start.

Are you confident you havent got teh HT leads on the wrong way round? That would explain the white smoke...

 

Yes, they are correct.

Pump runs only in 2 ways:

Linking pins 19 and 28 on the ECU multiplug or direct 12v from the battery with a temporary cable.

Problem is that I don't have another ecu to test with. Was promissed one here from a Portuguese guy but hasn't said anything till today.

 

if it your fuel pump mate it is not a faulty immobiliser that is cutting it out

good luck

 

What kind of immobiliser?? Car don't have alarm.

 

just wondering if it had a factory one did you check the fuel cut off in the boot then

 

ehehe sure, it does not have since I have bought it, don't like imobilisers anyway if that cut off swith is on when you link ecu pins 19 and 28 it does not start, only if you wire the pump directly

what kind of factory imobiliser are you talking about? how can I see if it has one, except the boot cut off switch?

3 weeks of pain with this problem and can't figure out what is wrong

 

i dont think your problem is fuel related. you need to start from the begining again
let us take the initial cause of the problem. the alternator blades broke up and hit the lobe on the crank.
although it is highly unlikely did the shrapnel do any other damage like puncture a loom on the chassis leg or hit the coil area wireing. i can only assume that a blade jamed between the crank pulley lobe and something else in order to break it off.
the fact that you have white smoke comming out the turbo inlet indicates that some ignition is taking place with the inlet valves open or slightly open (ignition problem)
or that compression is taking place with the inlet valve not fully closed (valve timing problem)
seeing as you are very confident that the valve timing is good
i would concentrate on the fact that you only have a spark at number 1 plug. i know its obvious but you will not be able to fully diagnose any other problems if any, until all 4 plugs are sparking
if the car was running perfect before the lobe broke off then the simple solution of replacing the pully should have fixed it.
i know i am not offering any quick fix at the moment but i would suggest that you start from the begining with the basic cause of your problem and go from there before you start going off the track and trying to fix problems that you may not actually have

 

it makes sense

about the sparking isn't the ECU that signals the ignition amplifier module to spark?

could any of the initial problem (1 tooth out of pulley and big misfire) be the cause to a broken ECU?

I know that the initial problem is very unlikely to happen, but the fact is that is the only explanation to the alternator venting blades not in place and the pulley tooth wenting way

even so, I had 3 or 4 times sparks on all plugs and it didn't started anyway. at this moment it sparks well and some other times it does not.

What I'm going to do is getting a completly new alternator (on monday) and try again, as it's the only thing I had not changed yet.

btw can the ignition relay the cause for sparking problems? (I was told that is one of the big ones inside fuse box. I didn't change any of these relays as they were "clicking" and so)

 

still not starting

Have sparks on all 4 now.

 

Had a cossie with a similar problem once, It turned out the wiring to the phase sensor was broken.

I suggest you buzz out all your wires from the sensors on the engine to the multiplug on the ecu, and kind of bend the wires as your testing so that any unseen breaks might show itself.

Good luck.

 

in that case I should not have correct resistance values on the ECU multiplug. I think.

 

So if you can get the fuel pump to work, and you've got a spark, and all the diagnostics checks are OK, and the relay feeds to the ECU and elsewhere are OK, it must surely be a timing issue.

Check the cam timing is correct - and whilst the crank pulley is in this position, check that the rotor arm lines up with the mark on the dizzy body, and that the plug lead for cylinder number 1 is in the dizzy cap dirctly above the end of the rotor arm.

 

yep. that is correct, was checked several times.

I think I have no other choice to take that car to a ford dealer. been there today, only 1 of the mechanics are able to diagnose it and can not be done before July 3 as they are full.

I just hope they don't take too long to diagnose it, because I have to pay 35Euros/Hour just for that.

 

Almost 2 months since it broke and it's running again

The only ones that solved the problem was at Ford Dealer. Car went there last friday and it was running this morning.

Still don't know what the problem was, they don't tell. Just said: electrical problems.

Thanks for everyone here that tried to help me.

 

were there any parts that were used on your bill...?

 

no. just labor. that's why I'm confused eheh, btw they used my old crank sensor and blue sensor, and said to keep the new ones that I had buyed for future use