Ginger Will

I am not a computer nerd and went to an Apple shop for the first time last week. After getting shown how to use two fingers to drag and scroll etc, I thought they were pretty similar to a PC.

I, as a non computer nerd, don't understand what benefits I would get from Mac book over a Windows PC.

Give me a good reason to (dare I say it) replace my Dell laptop which has been perfectly stable for the last 7 years or so with a mac book? As I am looking to update soon.

I do word processing, spreadsheets, AutoCAD and enjoy Gaming, but clearly can't play the latest stuff on this thing!!

Chopshop85

iTrader: (4)

Complete bull .
The hardware inside macs is the same that goes into everything.

Mac don't make their own ram, gpu, cpu etc, nor do they have them specifically made.

The two laptops compared earlier use the same hardware that have come from the same hardware manufacturers. Eg: Asus, BFG, seagate etc.

Further more the compatibility with the OS is down to the chipset manufacturer developing software drivers.

Chopshop85

iTrader: (4)

If you enjoy gaming I would advise against a mac. There is very few games out there compatible with the Mac OS. There are ways around it for some games with software like steam, but its a whole lot of messing about.

Ginger Will

That was what I expected re gaming. Cheers

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

*sigh*

I didn't say Apple make their own components. My point is, Apple build a computer from the ground up. The internal hardware is available off the shelf - its why hackintosh's work - but they pick and select what hardware the desktop or laptop will have. The OS is designed to work exactly with the hardware - its why you don't need drivers on a Mac; unlike pc's that need util discs and drivers from all over the net. It's also why you don't get compatibility issues, and very rarely hardware read errors (when was the last time you heard of a Mac having a BSOD?) You don't get that with a PC - because PC manufacturers don't make the OS and Microsoft don't make computers. So you have one company using x this and x that, with another using y this and y that - and then want to put the same OS on it as everyone else does. Naturally you will get compatibility conflicts and errors, need drivers, firmware, etc etc.

People are free to chose what they want. I'm not gonna argue with someone what's better - arguing on the Internet about what computer manufacturer you like? Please

I just find it funny the word "Apple" really provokes a reaction with people. If you don't like the brand, that's fine - I don't like the brand Burberry, but you don't see me calling people who do sheep or fanboys. It's funny that these days, it's perceived to be as cool, if not cooler, to show everyone you don't like apple, or the people that use apple products, than it is to like it/use it. Funny tho, nearly all that do vehemently and publically "slate" Apple are the ones that can't afford it... What a strange correlation

At the end of the day, buy what works for you, and I'll buy what works for me. But why does it seem to rile or upset people so much when they prefer something others don't?

Chopshop85

iTrader: (4)

You were doing so well until that classic flippant statement. Proof that apple is nothing more than a "look at me" status symbol. "It costs more so it must be better"

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Not at all. By that logic, buying branded food or clothing means its better? I think I've accurately and concisely explained why I personlyy think it's better - if I believed "it costs more, that's why it's better" I'd have just said that, rather than illustrating what a Mac is all about.

How can my MacBook be a status symbol when it very rarely leaves the house? I mean, to be a "look at me" status symbol, I'd have to carry it around, flashing the logo to people - not leaving it at home on the table where only the cat can see it

CrOwSoN15

Did someone say contradiction?

Proper PMSL at that comment

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Where have I contradicted myself?

Fast Guy

Yes they do.

http://www.t3.com/news/microsoft-sur...-delayed-in-uk


I could afford a Mac, but I refuse to do so because I think they're massively overpriced. A similar spec macbook to my laptop is nearly 3 times as expensive.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

I don't see anything about a computer there - at least not one comparable to a MacBook or iMac. I see a tablet (which is most likely a rebranded off the shelf device), which is not in anyway comparable to a laptop. Just as an iPad is not comparable to a MacBook.

As I've said, people are free to chose what they want, and also free to spend what they want. Some people place higher value on things than others. For example I wouldn't spend Ł150 on trainers when I know that the Ł35 ones I've got are good enough. I also wouldn't spend Ł90 on a shirt, when I can get 7 or 8 for that price. But I'm very happy with my Mac (incidentally, I wouldn't spend the Ł2k+ they cost new on one of those either) and it does virtually everything I could ask of it. So where's the problem? Why does that make me a sheep, a fanboy, or a "look at me" attention whore?

Chopshop85

iTrader: (4)

I think that's what most people are getting at here...and you have kind of agreed yourself saying you wouldn't buy one new.

Why spend Ł150 on trainers when a Ł35 pair will do exactly them same.
Why spend Ł2000+ on a laptop when a Ł700 one will do exactly the same?

CrOwSoN15

You said about how people judge Apple as a fashion accessory, and how you don't like Burberry but you don't call people that like it "fan boys", yet you'll happily accuse people that don't like them of being too poor to afford a Mac?

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

No, I said you don't see me going around slating that companies are shit just because I don't like them, nor the people that buy stuff from those companies (I used Burberry as an an example) - please, if you can find a post I've made saying "Burberry clothing is shit" and/or "People that buy Burberry are sheep/fanboys/insert other derogatory adjective" then please post it.

The majority, and I didn't say all, that love to slate Apple as a company, it's products and it's customer base, often are the ones that can't afford it. That's an observation, not an accusation. I'm too poor to afford a lot of things - my MacBook is a few years old now, and I bought it second hand. My TV is second hand, and at least three years old. My car is ten years old, and I'm the third owner. Even my drums and cymbals are (mostly) second hand. I can't even afford to buy new tyres (keep getting outbid on ebay, ffs). Not being able to afford isn't a derogatory statement, it's an observation. I apologise to those I unwittingly caused offence to, or touched a nerve on!

Even if it was the case I was just taking a poke at non-Apple product users, which it isn't, why would it fine for people to slate Apple, it's products and it's customers, labelling them sheep and fanboys, but yet I can't say anything about them? Is that not double standards?

As said, in todays world, it seems it's as cool, if not cooler, to be an Apple (and I hate this term, it's so childish) "hater", than to be an Apple "fanboy" (for want of a better word). It's a bandwagon that nearly all non-Apple product users seem to jump on.

I don't understand the divide that a brand of computer manufacturer can seemingly make. The most odd part is it's rarely the Apple "fanboy" (read : product user) that's making the divide, but more so the non-Apple user that makes it. I know many people that use Mac's, iPhone's, iPad's, iPod's etc and I don't (personally) know any that think they are better than other people because they use Apple products, and actually don't even consider it at all. Yet the non-users always pipe up, mostly on the internet, about it the majority of the time.

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

www.passionapple.com

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

v man

Well I use my I pad or everything I need to do now

Not touched my laptop since I got this I pad

Fast Guy

So how would you compare your ipad to your laptop?

St3V3_C

Fine until he wants to just go on a website.

Then he's got to piss about downloading apps because it won't work...

And as he's deaf in one ear it's fine that the iPad only has one speaker...

St3V3_C

11.123.

Fast Guy

I'm surprised it's not quicker, you have the next processor up from me and an ssd in your laptop.

(My 3yr old desktop has done 10.450)

St3V3_C

Drive is going to have very little effect on that mate, it's pure maths calculation.

I know it's got to write that file at the end, but it's only 1meg.

v man

Ahh I can go on any website fine

Just downloaded the google app and bobs your uncle

I'm just a basic user with thus sort of thing
Few forum sites
YouTube
Games for my kids so the I pad does me fine


I like it and it does me fine but agree for the more evolved user it would be no good really

Rossy43

Im a fan of Apple but also still use a PC/laptop.

Is this really such a big fucking deal?

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

What website? There's very few that don't work on iOS now, thanks in part to HTML5, and also to the many many website owners that have added browser support and mobile versions.

Sometimes though, the apps can still be better. Take Autotrader; website has a great mobile version, works well. But the app is even better.

As for speakers; just airplay the iPad to compatible speaker system, or Apple TV and enjoy sound in full. Or plug in a 3.5mm cable (just like you would with a PC). To be fair, most laptop speakers are shit - they're just doubly shit because there's two of them

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

The lack of flash puts me off ipads. And the fact my gf's crashes all the time.

Eagle

iTrader: (2)

If your into gaming then get a windows i7 based system. Loads out there now built to a specification..
Graphics work etc go for a mac ...
Although mac will run windows easily enough so not like your going to loose out IF you need microsoft based stuff...
However claiming that a macbook with retina display IS the BEST gaming computer available is a little far fetched. From another mac fanboy ...
Proved that you cand do it cheaper and better with a purpose built system and still wouldnt agree.
Some mac lovers only have eyes for that system. Cant blame em really if i had a macbook i phone and i pod i know they would all connect and work together.
But looking at macs and trying to change the fitted hardware your stuffed. If you can the same parts for a pc are normally more than 20% cheaper. Can you add more ram to a macbook ???

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

Thrush let it go mate, I used to get stressed about people that Know nothing about Apple products or can afford to actually own one decide that they are shit.

What difference does it make that a product costs double if you can then sellit for double the opposition can sell there's for?

There is a hell of a lot of sheep you're talking about, Sam you live in a dreamworld...

My i7 MacBook I use for work is lightening fast, stylish, reliable has never had to be rebuilt and never had a virus. Neither did the one before it. Or my i7 iMac. I can't remember my iPad ever crashing and oh ow many iPhones have apple sold now?

It's like saying a golf is an expensive skoda. Yeah I agree but ill still take the golf thanks!

brett89

I'm a long time reader, but have never registered til today.
But Dell makes some excellent business laptops, their Precision series or Latitude line. I've a Precision, and at least in the US, I'd prefer their warranty over Apple. Here's why. Apple does have a very good warranty though.
Dell sends the parts next business day, and a technician if needed.(exception being an indeterminate issue, or extent of a problem, it'll be sent off) With their high-end warranty, I can talk to someone who hasn't been outsourced, nice for troubleshooting stuff and getting it running sooner. Unless you're buying a laptop for peanuts, do not skimp on the warranty.
For Windows 7, I run MSE and Malwarebytes, and I've not had a virus issue.

I work for a computer guy at my university, and advise students on what to get annually. So I've seen how their warranties both work, and gone through both of them personally. Apple requires you to bring the computer into a repair centre, and will not cover water damage.

Neither company will make it feel like you're robbing them, they're pretty nice about parts replacement.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't stress me - people are free to go wherever they choose and whatever direction they want. I'm not one of those "well I think Apple is best, so you MUST use it too" - I fully understand different people like different things and require different things for what they want to do.

What irks me, are people that immediately jump to say something is shit, without having the education to back it up. Working with a Mac is different to working with a PC, and I understand that when people only have limited "shop test" experience (as in, when they've played with one for 5 mins in a shop, or used a mates for half an hour, but never actually lived or worked with one), they can't do the things they are used to (or at least think they can't, but they could if they had a bit more experience, and education, of the product), so they immediately call it out as shit. That whole mentality is childish, and pointless. What's the old saying? Don't knock it till you've tried it? (and before someone says, I know that doesn't apply to everything - I don't need to try it to know I don't really fancy a dick up my arse )

The amount of times, especially in the early days, I would hear co workers or whoever say "Yeah, the iPhone is shit. I tried one and it was rubbish", to which I'd ask "Really? How long did you have it?", expecting them to say a couple weeks or a month. But the answer invariably came back as "I tried it in the shop" The iPhone isn't a fucking jumper or a pair of jeans - you don't just try it on for a couple mins and look at it in the mirror, and that's enough to make your mind up

Same goes for a computer - from first trying them (i.e, using friends) to actually getting my MacBook was several years. I used an iBook for a week at a time while staying in the states, then a friend bought an iMac so I'd use that whenever I got a chance, and actually do stuff on it, rather than just click in the folders and take pics of myself with Photo Booth (which is what everyone seems to do if you go to an Apple store). I used iTunes for years prior to getting a Mac, for my iPod and iPhone (although, I used Windows Media Player 11 with a plugin to run my iPod for a while as I really didn't like iTunes - but now I actually KNOW how to use it, what it does and how it works, iTunes is awesome, and does virtually everything I want it to - at least everything I can think of needing it to, and everything I would actually ask it to)

It's just the whole "I look cool if I say I hate Apple" and "I look more individual by saying I hate Apple" - which is complete horseshit, because you look anything but.

It's like Goths and Emo's - they look like they look because they want to look different. But yet they all look the same?!?

daviddunlop83

iTrader: (7)

I have a Dell Precision M6600 mobile workstation which we use for 3D modeling and it handles everything thrown at it so far.

And we cant use apple as Catia as far as im aware isnt supported.

zetec-Sam

iTrader: (2)

Yawn. Just trying to stir it up again are we? But I guess I 'can't afford' Apple products, despite having owned a few, and spending more than the price of a brand new mac on gaming PC components anyway.

On the Virus front, I've never had a virus on my Windows based PC, or on the Linux PC I used to run.

Chopshop85

iTrader: (4)

My hate for apple comes from being stuck with using them at university for 3 years. Trying to use photoshop, indesign, dreamweaver with only one mouse button, taking several minutes to load a group of RAW large format images, constant spinning wheel of death. Even the "newer", "better" ones they installed in the suite on my final year were just as slow and unreliable.

So I think having to use one for around 8 hours a week for 3 years gives me enough experience to decide that they are overpriced toss.

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

You don't state what year, but by the sounds of it, it was quite a while ago - you've been able to use two, or three, button mice on Macs for a good few years, roughly a decade. IF that's the case, that would also explain the "slowness" of the Macs back then - compared to nowadays, they'd be horrifically slow! But no slower than their similarly specced PC counterparts. I've used Photoshop on both, and it's run better on a mac than any PC I've used - even one that's better specced on paper.

But if it's your opinion, it's your opinion, and nothing I'm gonna say will change that. At least you've actually got the education and experience to make a positive informed opinion

Chopshop85

iTrader: (4)

Oh for sure it was a while ago. Yeah a similar spec pc would be exactly the same no doubt when it came to third party software. Just the similarly specced pc counterparts would have been a fraction of the cost.

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

And be worth nothing and look horrible... Compared to an apple product anyway.

I work with graphic designers who use adobe products all day every day.

Believe me they don't use pcs mate.

St3V3_C

So you had to download an ap then?


Like I said

As above. Google maps and youtube as examples. You might have heard of them lol.

And if it does now work on the latest OS, for just how long has it not worked??? Why?

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Um, no, you don't have to download an app to use Google. Google was the first website formatted to work on iOS (well, I'm sure Apple's own website was, but that doesn't really count does it). Google works perfectly on Safari on iOS. But the point of apps is that they are built, usually from the ground up, to work specifically for an OS. Personally, I don't use the Google app, as I don't need to and don't find it offers me anything over using Google in the browser, but each to his own.

Why would I use Google maps in Safari when there's a perfectly good app built directly into the OS (well, up till iOS6, when Apple chose to use their own maps app). Why would I use Youtube in a browser, when there's a perfectly good app built right into the OS (well, up until iOS6 when YouTube (Google) released their own app for it. Why would I use Gmail in a browser, when the Mail app works perfectly, and is built right into the OS? Why would I use eBay in a browser, when the eBay app is so much better, and integrates into the OS, with notifications, etc. Same goes for so many other ones; Paypal, Amazon, FaceBook, Barclays (or other banking), Photobucket, BBC/ITN/Sky News, IMDB, Gumtree, Argos, etc (I'm just naming ones I actually use, there's hundreds of thousands of others I don't use)

All the above all work perfectly in the web browser, and reformat for the mobile version, but you get a better user experience using the dedicated app. So why would you use the web browser for everything? If you don't want loads of apps, you can. If you prefer a richer, quicker, easier experience, then use the apps. Plus with nearly all the apps, push notifications and alerts are built right into the app to work in Notification Centre. So when an item I'm watching on ebay is finishing soon, I get a push notification. If someone comments on my wall on FaceBook, I get a push notification. If someone pays with me PayPal, I get a push notification. And so on. I wouldn't get that using the web browser - just as you wouldn't using those website in a web browser on a computer (Mac or PC - although incidentally, if I get an email and I have a web page open on Gmail, I get a push notification in Notification Centre on OSX too)

Pretty simple!

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

Websites in browser and in dedicated apps

Thrush

iTrader: (1)

But more importantly than "websites don't work on iOS" (which they clearly do), why are we discussing it in a thread about what laptop to get? Or is it just "stirring it up" about iOS/Apple mobile devices "don't work" (which clearly they do) ?

If in doubt, check this picture, showing that 91% of all tablet web traffic is done with iPads, with all the other tablets on the market put together only sharing 9% of the web traffic



Or is Apple lying? Some would say yes, but it's a bold claim to make, opening them to libel if they were lying...