Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

How achievable is this do you guys think?

I know people will say why would you want to etc etc just by an RS etc but if we thought like that no one would modify their cars.

It does not seem to me like many people have done this with ST,s I think though as ST prices come down people will start spending more on modifying.

Especially with RS focus,s around people are going to start putting the parts on STs.

is it just me or is part of the fun being able to go round a track faster than a far more expensive and initially from the factory quicker car.

Surely the idea is to push the boundaries.

Just thought I would get peoples opinions on this.

People say it will handle poorly and wheelspins everywhere, Well so did my rs turbo (all of them) but didnt stop me going for more power and trying to make it handle.

How different is this?

Mint FRST

iTrader: (1)

As with most things it is achievable but a cost.

Think you will find the engine block will be the issue with it being an ST.

Of course the turbo, fueling and intercooling will need looking at also

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Im sure it will split the block at 400bhp.

Fudgey

iTrader: (4)

there was some volvo creation on top gear last night that had 400hp, using the same engine as the focus RS, that is the same as the ST but modified.

sounded fooking ace too

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

I thought the same fudgey...

I keep hearing this about the block and i can understand it and believe it but there are many blocks that failed on 220hp and some that haven't for years on 320hp.

If it goes then you upgrade surely...

A lot of people say just buy an RS but as i said if everyone did this where would the fun be in that.

I love the RS but dont want to get strapped up for one and have not got that sort of cash around.

Got to be fun beating an RS in an ST but at what cost i wonder...

scottyrs

iTrader: (1)

i was going to say that aswell fudgey it was mint!

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

Mint Frst, the fuelling is getting sorted with a set of RS injectors, Inter cooling will be done with a Gen 3 intercooler and Turbo could be done with either a GT or a focus RS turbo which seems the cheaper option.

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

As far as im aware the RS has a revised block compared to the ST.

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

Yes mat apparently it has been plasma lined but apparently Jamsport had this looked into and wasn't too sure that was the case...

(i think)

R5FORD

iTrader: (1)

Why do people compare modified cars to standard cars? Your modified ST will beat a standard RS but what happens when the guy with the Rs has modded his to 450hp and 600nm of torque? Bye bye ST

Rsmat

iTrader: (2)

Something must be different has there`s plenty of RS`s pushing 400+ with no issue`s like the ST has..

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

ST's post 2008 I think it is have the same block as an RS...they have the same part number.

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

Yes mat apparently its because people buy a handled device on an ST whack it up to the most powerful map and drive like animals while the Injectors are on full usage...

Im no expert but thats what a lot of people are saying.

I agree R5ford. but as i say if we thought like that no one would modify we would all just save and buy the most powerful car we could.

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

A lot of people disagree with this on the stoc but Ive heard its true.

Carlos-Titx

Ive heard the blocks on the ST have thinner liners than the Volvo block. But have heard to get to the region of 400 bhp (asuming the mods are there and you are at 300 ish bhp, cooler, induction, exhaust etc) then its a case of bigger injectors, turbo and a good map set up. How true it is I don't know.

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

im hearing this a lot Carlos. People used to think it was impossible but since the rs Mk2 has come out and started to be modified things seem a little different.

Im going to go for everything except the turbo until I can afford it then it will be that and another map.

350 is the aim really...

Carlos-Titx

If I am totally honest I had a seed planted by a mate. I wanted to hit 300. Not far off I don't think, region of 270-275 atm (have a RR day next month so find out then). He turned round and said why not go for 400 "lol". Its pretty much a case of injectors and turbo. But about 300 is enough for me. Getting good mpg so cant take the piss lol.

Safe limits of the standard turbo is about 320 I think but Ive not heard any one that is running 300+ of blowing up a turbo or injectors giving up and killing the engine.

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

problem is people just think thet the blocks are made of chocolate and crack. Seems to be no science to it.

One guy on stoc said that it was not heat that causes cracked liners.

I asked what it was then and he didn't have an answer.

A few people seem to be saying its heat due to not enough fuel at certain points.

Mint FRST

iTrader: (1)

The RS injectors are not up to job i.e. achieving 400Bhp like you want.

Correct...

Rs(555)

iTrader: (8)

I bought the ex collins performance st focus a while back...
Martin said it was running around 400 bhp ..
It had different manifold ,turbo,injectors,cooler...
Not that hard to achieve !!
Give him a bell at collins performance !

Carlos-Titx

If it is heat build up due to a lack of fuel then a good map should solve this making the block fine would it not? I run dreamscience platform on mine so the map, although generic to ST's, should make sure there is the correct fuel all the way through the revs.

This would apply even more so on a custom map.

Carlos-Titx

Ah yeah, I forgot the ST has a manifold/turbo combo

bezo

650cc injectors for anything over 400hp

Dlatch!

if it was my money i would find out what was done to that volvo to make it AWD then convert a ST to be AWD

then you would have a proper car

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

i heard its because the compression on the st was alot higher on the st than the rs ....

the differences where , bigger turbo and manifold, revised inlet and injectors, new ecu, and different camshafts.... theres no mention of the cyclinder block....


so could it be that it needs the compression dropping to that of the frs????

otherwise with the following should be over 400bhp
gt28 turbo or mk2 frs turbo
sitech racing inlet
cias induction
front mount
650cc injectors
full turbo back system
remap and a boost controller

pretty much what a friend has on his frs , but the controller isnt needed and his is alittle under 440bhp now

Carlos-Titx

I would really like to see this be done. Mainly because all the focus (excuse the pun) has been shifted to extracting the power out of the RS instead of the ST and to see an ST take the fight to the big powered RS's would be great. Especially if it was Electric Orange

pani_k

iTrader: (1)

Over on FFOC from what I understand it is the heat and pressure caused in the cylinders that causes the liners to crack. A lot of talk has been thrown around in regards to mapping it properly though which seems to keep coming back. The ST does produce a lot of torque early on in the rev range don't forget and tails off quite a bit towards the top for what I believe is safety reasons for where the block is concerned.

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

i think that its down to needing the compression dropping to the rs's level (but dont quote me im not a professional)...

but in theory you could use a frs turbo and manifold with a sitech inlet and run 400bhp no problems ..... just would have to find out weather the block is ok

chaffe

its the combustion pressures that crack the liners, more bhp=more pressure=more stress

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

isnt that down to the poor manifolds being restrictive after 300bhp... i heard by fitting frs ones makes the whole car alot less restrictive

and my mate has just had a sitech inlet fitted to his frs at jamsport to boost his js400 kit and its made so much difference in response. hes alos getting his turbo rebuilt to hybrid spec and has been told he should see 470bhp on standard internals

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

some really good info on this thread.

Rsmark thats the route im going to take, All the talk of 4x4 and rear wheel drive does not concern me If i wanted rear wheel drive i would have stayed with M5 and if i wanted 4 wheel drive i would have stayed with my escos sti or skyline.

I just fancy doing something with an St that not many others have. If its down to lowering the compression then thats what i will have to look into.

The sitech inlet looks really good and there is talk of 40bhp being added because of it, so ill definitely be getting one of them. I believe that mountune have approved inlet now so must be pretty reliable too.

Bezo I didnt know that I thought the rs injectors would take it to 400bhp but thats something i will look into.

As said its going to be a long road and stage 3 is the first stage but definitely going to go inlet and turbo route after...

Ebonycossie4x4

iTrader: (4)

This is what I mean mark I think jamsport are really doing good things with these and FRS mk1 and 2 at the moment.

Thats definitely who im going with for it.

I honestly think most of the problem is people chasing figures with handsets and not modifying anything else to cope with the added bhp.

chaffe

frs liners are much thicker, the st ones are quite thin in comparrison, and even frs liners have been known to crack. There is a thread on here (been locked off halfway through ) about someone tuning a volvo t5r to 500 bhp, it cracked liners, and he replaced them with some chunky overlapping ones, good read.

CossieRob

There was an ST in performance ford back when they first came out which had been 4x4'd. I think it used a haldex system from a Volvo which was a straight forward swap as most of the floorplan stuff was there already. I could be completely wrong with the floorplan bit as my memory is shocking and I chucked the mag ages ago!

chaffe

using the haldex system is not as easy as you might think, my friend has converted a mk2 golf to 6 speed haldex 4x4 (same rear end) and controlling the haldex is the problem as the clutch pack is electronically controlled by a stepper motor/valve setup. But a 4x4 st would be very cool indeed

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

you want 650cc injectors
frs down pipe
frs manifold and turbo
full st stainless system
decat
cias induction
front mount
decent engine mounts

then i would fit frs clutch and flywheel along with the frs style lsd

and of course if it needs the compression lowering...

give matt at jamsport a ring and say i told you to ring and say what you want and they will be able to tell you the limits of everything



once the cossie is finished and sold im thinking of getting an frs but might settle with an st .... keep seeing loads with 300bhp and would just need to add a frs turbo and 650cc injectors and a inlet and its away

rsmark86

iTrader: (3)

when they first built the mk2 frs they tried to build it 4x4 using the kugas 4x4 system and the car was a hell of alot faster round a track , but it was to costly to make reliable and would of bumped the price of the cars to high, so ford scrapped it....

Carlos-Titx

Would going to a solid fly wheel be better than the DMF at high power? The Volvo boys rave about going to a solid wheel, when I changed all my clutch gear over to RS stuff some one said about using a solid flywheel. I ended up using the RS DMF as I already bought it.

What do people think on this area?

Carlos-Titx

I heard that on top gear as well

chaffe

so i also heard, but ive actually had first hand experience in grafting that particular 4x4 system onto a car that never came with it