Hey guys,

You all provided some useful information after my mate cocked up on the timing belt change and bent all 16 valves - so hopefully you can help

We had the head off and replaced ALL of the valves. The pistons are slightly marked but I dont think would be an issue. We started up this morning and it sounded quite tappy - kinda like a push rod (new valves need to bed in?)..power was lacking quite a lot in all gears low down in the revs...best way to describe is EPIC turbo lag (I'm from Diesel background).

However, I had to drive it today and I drove 200 miles+ mainly motorway. On the MW its fantastic, good from about 60 - 90 and feels smooth and responsive. When I slow down at junctions and roundabouts however, its a completely different story. It literally has no power - and there's not really any power gain further up the revs. It feels like a 1.0 with five mammoth people on board.

I suspect timing but is there anything else it could possibly be? We did timing with the bar in end of cam shafts and the timing pin (which we fabricated following Haynes manual). Is there a possibility the valves could be making contact with the pistons at all...or would this cut the engine out? I'm really tempted to book it in with Ford and say - look...sort this out for me...!

Getting desperate! I want my nippy 1.6 back! Ironic. Shouldnt have bothered to service in the first place!!!


Thanks for any help - excuse the vent!

(EDIT: I have BlackTop SE)

 

if rember have to re shim theas engines

 

When you say reshim are you talking about lapping the valves? We used coarse and fine paste if you're talking about that. I just noticed too that we werent supposed to use 10 40 or engine flush. Crap. Why did the Haynes say to use that then!?


Don't tell me I'm gonna have to rebuild engine AGAIN.

 

If you put 10w40 in it then you need to get it out asap and refill with 5w30. And as above, did you reshim the valve clearances?

 

Ok I'll sort the oil. Can you explain to me what that means?

 

It is the clearance between cam lobe and the bucket on top of the valve. If the clearance is too large, then the valve will not open fully, thus loosing you power.

The thicker oil will probably have caused the tapping you heard too...

 

Cheers for that dude. I was looking for a suggestion that wasnt timing related. Is that a DIY job or garage? I'm finding it hard to find anything on it..

 

Not too sure mate I've never done the job myself on a focus, done it on a few pushrod engines in the past but that was just a case of turning a few screws! Have a look through a haynes, should give you the info.

 

The fact it has 10W40 and not 10W30 will NOT cause this issue, as for making it noisier, no it will help to make it quieter.
If the gap on each tappet is too large it will as said not fully open the valve, but I suspect that they are too small in clearance, after grinding the valves the valves have moved that bit closer to the cam, so the clearance reduces, holding the valve slightly open if bad enough but throwing out the valve timing as the valves are opening earlier and closing earlier.
Did you slacken the cam bolts so the pulleys could rotate slightly if needed, how accurate is the pin length that you fabricated, I'd be tempted to stick a ready made pin in the engine when timing or use a dti gauge, just to make sure everything is correct.
Just double check you have got a big air leak by having left something off, maybe overlooked tightening a air pipe up etc.
10W40 oil will cause NO DAMAGE what so ever, they are specified with a 30 weight oil for less drag better mpg etc, my dads zetec that I fully rebuilt around 7-8 years ago has used 10W40 from day one.
Engine flush will cause no damage, it can wash out varnish and congealed oil in hydraulic tappets and cause them to go noisy, but most modern flushes are little more than oils, and VERY gentle, older flushes could break great big chunks of carbon off, blocking oilways etc, not so now a days though.
I use a engine flush in all my engines cossie included 200 miles prior to the oil changes, not the recommended 10 minutes idling, and have just taken apart my 200,973 miles old cossie engine for rebuild, that is still on STANDARD CRANK SIZE big ends and mains, original cams, little ends as well, the engine was thrashed all the time, helping to burn off the contaminants in the oil keeping it fresh, hence it lasting so well.
tabetha

 

Thanks for putting my mind at rest! My dad just gave me a pretty good run through about re shimming. I think my mate assumed they were hydraulic. Lets get that head off again then.

 

Doing the tappets/clearances is easy, just need a vernier gauge bit of paper and feeler gauges.
Simply set each cylinder in turn on tdc, insert the feeler gauge to measure gap between shim on top of valve bucket and cam lobe, then withdraw shim and measure, if the gap was too large then you need a thicker shim by the amount of the difference between the actual gap measured and the gap needed.
If one gap was measured at 0.75mm and it should be say 0.50mm, then you know the shim needs to be 0.25mm thicker(to lessen the gap between shim and cam lobe), if the shim that you then remove is say 3mm, then you would need to put a 3.25mm one in there.
Do all the measurements, marking each shims thickness as you remove them, you can then do swappsies, ie use a shim from one valve on another valve so long as the shims are unmarked/worn this is fine and done all the time, the last shim engine I did, I needed to buy 3 or 4 shims, at Ł3 each, even took old unworn shims in px!!
The shims are slightly off set from the cam lobe so the lobe imparts a slight turning action each time it is contacted, this keeps the wear dead even over the whole surface.
tabetha

 

^^^^

Cheeers. Right now it sounds like a sewing machine

 

Sorry tabetha I completely disagree with you regarding the oil grade. 10w40 will cause the hydraulic tappets to not fill with oil as they should, or cause them to stick all together. Ford spend millions of pounds developing these engines to run specifically on 5w30 oil, and this is what the OP should be using, not 10w40, as what some bloke on the internet said. I do mean it in the nicest possible way!!

 

My tappets aren't hydraulic though are they?

 

As said the oil should be 5/30W not the 10W/40 or 30 as mentioned above, although as to whether this would be causing the tapping or not is questionable, but as said it has been known to stick tappets.


5W/30 is Fords reccomendation despite Haynes and Shawspeed etc saying 10W/40 can be used.

As said you probably need to do the valve clearances.

This is the setting specification, something no one else has mentioned either is it's crucial it is done with the engine cold:

0.20MM (Intake)

0.34MM (Exhaust)

The method for achieveing this is mentioned above.

Martin

 

Thanks very much for this.

 

No there solid lifters.

Martin

 

Indeed they are sorry for the confusion! The zetec-e's are hydraulic.

 

Done this plenty of times its a right ball ache, there is a tolerance on them so they dont have to be absolutely perfect, should tell you in the haynes manual, can't find mine atm!

 

Tolerance is 0.17MM to 0.23MM (Intake) and 0.31MM 0.37MM (Exhaust)

Martin

 

Cheers for this. I know I can swap the buckets if they are the right tolerance with another valve, but where do I order new ones from? Do I have to buy the actual bucket itself? Best place for them and price?

Cheers

J

 

ive got some if you need some

 

Cheers dude. I dont know what sizes I need yet..I'm guessing there's a large range. Gonna get a feeler gauge in there and note down the measurements.

Thanks

Jack

 

well ive got 16 various sizes

 

Thats great. I'll probably get back in touch with you.

 

ok mate just PM me when u know what you need

 

I've got access to around 1,000 shims to fit these, also used on at least 6 other makes identical shims.
You will find the ford dealer will have a box in the workshop of these shims, but don't get stitched on price.
tabetha

 

My mate had a chuckle at this, in a positive way, and respects you for putting your opinion across as I do, my mate works on nothing but lubrication systems for cars for major performance car makers, including for for the engine mentioned, the "filling" of the tappet is done when cold at start up if it has lost pressure overnight in the tappet, and at the cold temperature before the engine has warmed up the oil is EXACTLY THE SAME VISCOSITY, whether it is a 10W30 or a 10W40, the first number denotes cold 37C viscosity, so there is no difference, the only difference is when hot around 100-120C, oil temp, where the 40 weight is that bit thicker and will help to hold oil pressure better, though a 30 weight on this engine should be fine, if all ok.
The oil is 100% NOT going to cause the tappets to stick, if it could cause these issues by being so far out tappets would be the least of your trouble.
The tappet merely contains 2 sliding "tubes" with a spring in them, oil enters the "tubes" via a oilway around the bore the tappet slides up/down in, then as oil is basically incompressible this 2 part tube type affair lengthens to fill the space between the valve head and the underside of the bucket, so setting your gap, or not as they are in constant light contact, the tiny spring inside pushes a ball against a hole stopping the oil from getting out, hence why they should be quiet when restarted next day, but as we know with a few miles can de pressurise a bit and so need refilling.
The tappets are not hydraulic in this case, so there's no argument, no manufacturer develops any engine to run on a specific oil, despite what they might say, thinner oils came in use due to tighter machine tolerances, for better emissions and mpg primarily.
The oil used whatever the viscosity has a range at which it operates best, a 10W40 covers the entire range that a 30 weight does, but when at the hot extreme is slightly thicker, but no where near as thick as the 30 weight is when the 30 weight is cold for example.
In different countries the recommendation changes despite the engine being identical in every way, so using a 40 weight in a 30 weight engine causes no harm, it just gives a bit of extra lee way when really hot as it doesn't thin out as much, but isn't needed, as the engine oil getting that hot in this country.
It won't do a thing using a 40 weight oil, other than cause it to be slightly thicker when cold, but in the temps we see in the uk it's not a issue, the poor old cossie was given a 40 weight oil by ford which will promptly kill engines if driven hard enough, it will simply get too thin, but was a good selling point and helped official mpg tests when done on the cars prior to release.
Years ago different oils were used summer and winter for best effect, despite being designed to use a certain grade.
Of a lot more importance is the depletion of ZDDP in oil, as this offers much needed scuff resistance.
tabetha

 

Didnt they say use 5w30?

 

Not what we say it's what Ford and your handbook will say! Chances are you will be fine what you have is basically just thicker oil, people have had problems using the wrong oil in these engines before!

Martin

 

i think people are getting confused with early generation (silver top zetec e) engine which has hydraulic followers. it is said that on these engines using the thicker 10w40 instead of 5w30 can cause the followers to stick and cause running problems.

 

That is correct, Zetec-E was until May 1998, even though the S has solid lifters, it still has been known to cause problems.

Martin

 

Turns out wrong valves were fitted!!

 

oh ffs thats hilarious

i can imagine this is pissing you right off though so i sympathise with you

is it your mate thats been doing all the work??

 

Yeah my mate. TBH Unipart sent out the wrong ones so wasnt really his fault. Could have checked though I guess. Valves are 4mm from top groove to end of top of valve on old ones (I kept three really bent ones for souvenirs) and the garage said new ones dont have anywhere near that much material. Lucky new valves are too short not too long!! Now a local garage I know I can trust has it, so they're gonna quote me for new valves and maybe a new head. Camshaft had a crack on the slot end and mates dad welded up for his but might need to get a new one. Should have gone to this garage in the first place really.

 

oh dear

at least you're not paying for it though i wouldnt be giving your mate any more work

 

Looks like I might have to pay for the garage work though...its not like Tim (the competent Porsche & TVR engine restorer...ehem) is happy with the way this is turning out.

Whats quite funny is the garage found this thread whilst googling for valve information

 

he made the mistake, so should at least be paying part.

haha cant believe they found this thread

i'm sure they'll be able to look after you though and i bet they got a giggle out of it

 

Yeah. Just not had it for 4 weeks now!

 

oh damn i know how that sucks man!

i've not been driving since the 18th august due to knee op so taken my car off the road for a little tlc. cant wait till i'm driving again 8)