http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8044860.stm

with toyota already saying they'll quit if the new rules are pushed through who's going to blink first?

 

Stinks of "We're not winning anymore so we don't want to play"

 

doesn't say they're quiting does it.........

 

Its just them flexing their muscles at the FIA to make sure that when the two sets of rules are drawn up in detail, thats it the more expensive set that end up winners.

 

it stinks of the fia setting a spending limit on teams who can use better bits than thosewho spend lots more to make the cheaper teams go faster

afer all, how is anyone going to put a cost on gaining that elusive exta 0.001 of a second a lap if it breaks the budget and you don't get to use somethng like kers which may gain you half a second a lap?

either everyones is the same or they shoudln't be racing

 

if there isnt a budget cap there wont be an F1 for them to cheat in anyway, personally i think if they fuck off then F1 will continue regardless and there will be more private teams like days gone by, and with cosworth waiting in the wings to supply a stream of 'customer' engines then great, full grids again

FIArarri will probably turn to Lemans and Sportscar racing i'd imagine, altho it would massively harm their business if they do pull out

 

They are hoping that all teams accept the budget, so it wont be a 'two-tier' championship.

Besides it has happend in the past anyway with turbo and n/a cars running together

 

Fantastic news.... I bet Jay is happy ..LOL

 

Mondeo Man, if ferrari fucked off it might be good for F1 as a sport, but would be rubbish for it as a glamourous money making business, which is all that is it these days.

Bernie doesnt care about F1 as a sport, he cares about it as a business and he measures its worth in pounds, not in how far it does or doesnt further engineering research etc.

 

Great News.

 

Well it wont be much of a championship with Ferarri spending as much as they like and no other teams entering as they've all gone bust will it.

Bernie and Max are protecting F1 from it'self, as they have done for 30 years or so

 

if it works on CART with teams using same chassis, same engines etc..... then why not F1????

fair rules, same chassis, 2 or 3 engine makers most and then lets see who has the advantage then!

well done FIA!

 

back in the day though the drivers were worth the extra money as theywere the talent and could pedal the cars around that fast

but nowadays it's the sponsers you need to keep happy so with the likes of brawn running rings around everyone it's found a less natural leveling of the playinbg field

thats what i see it as in any case, but if the just gave everyone one car and said "thats what you are racing, you fiddle with it the way you want it" it's just going to be abother A1PG rather than letting peole do what they can do to make their car better than others

 

Interesting.......

On April 28th Montezemolo wrote to Mosley and other world council members,
unhappy that budget caps had been put on the agenda of a meeting which was called to hear the McLaren case.
He wrote, ” I have always been concerned about its introduction (cost cap) mainly because I consider that there are serious technical difficulties in making sure that any cap can realistically be monitored.
“There are..doubts as to whether or not two categories of teams should be created which will inevitably mean that one category will have an advantage over the other and that the championship will be fundamentally unfaor and perhaps even biased. In any event this would create confusion in the public’s mind, which would seriously lower the value of Formula 1.”
This is a view shared by all the F1 teams, that having capped and uncapped teams operating to two different sets of rules is unworkable. FOTA will discuss this at its May 6th meeting.
But Montezemolo then goes on to remind Mosley about the deal, which he signed in 2005 to commit Ferrari to F1 until 2012, the one which broke the idea of a manufacturers’ breakaway series and for which Ferrari allegedly received €100 million.
Montezemolo’s point is that under the Concorde Agreement the FIA “cannot pass or amend any regulation without it being approved by the F1 commission.”
When Ferrari did its secret deal and signed up to 2012, it demanded and was granted “all rights under the previous Concorde Agreement will continue to apply until 31 December 2010, exactly as if the Agreement itself remained in place.”
The language then gets quite legal, and Montezemolo says he ‘insists’ that the FIA respect the agreement they made.
Presumably this is a coded message that Ferrari would launch a legal challenge against the cost cap. The problem there is time. It would take months and that would delay the 2010 rules being published, which would throw the series into chaos.
Ferrari would only launch an action like that with FOTA backing, but that will be hard because half of the teams in FOTA agree with the cost cap, which guarantees not just their survival but that they will be able to compete with the big boys and make a profit at the same time!

 

Ferrari fans are the ones spending the most money on F1 credited merchandise, so them keeping winning will be great for business for bernie and just lousy for motor racing enthusiasts like you

 

So F1 makes most of its money from Ferarri merchandise?

OK

 

Mosely's response

In response to the letter Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo wrote on April 28th to the FIA president expressing concern about having two classes of F1 car and about a possible legal challenge to the budget cap, Max Mosley wrote back the following day.
He quotes FIAT boss Sergio Marchionne, with whom Montezemolo works closely and his belief that in an economic crisis such as we are in at the moment, only an extreme response will do,
“We are just going to slam the brakes on, cut everything back to essentials. It may be painful, it may be ugly. But if we want to do the right thing for this industry let’s do it now. Today my gut instinct is to be truly Draconian.” These are Marchionne’s words.

Mosley's letter to Ferrari


Mosley points out that the car industry is in serious difficulty and that F1, as an extension of it, is extremely vulnerable. Honda’s departure was a wake up call and another manufacturer could leave at any moment.
“If we are to reduce the risk of the Formula 1 world championship collapsing, we have to allow new teams in. We also have to reduce costs drastically. The matter is therefore extremely urgent.”
Responding to Montezemolo’s legal threat over rights that have not been respected Mosley writes,
“The only radical elements are those needed to close the gap that would otherwise exist between a low-budget team and other competitors. Thus if Ferrari chooses to continue with an unrestricted budget, the new regulations will not deprive Ferrari of any rights…I do not accept that these proposed regulation compromise any commitment that has been given to Ferrari in the past, unless Ferrari would somehow argue that it is entitled to prevent new competitors from emerging at a time when the sport itself is in danger.”
He ends with a flourish, “We are confident (as are our accountants and lawyers) that a budget cap will be enforceable. The cleverest team will win and we would eliminate the need for depressing restrictions on technology, which the existing teams are discussing with a view to reducing costs. I hope Ferrari will take the lead in agreeing the cost cap mechanism, thus freeing its engineers to work and preserving its shareholders’ money.”
Mosley has always wanted three things; to see the playing field levelled so small teams can compete with big teams, to have full grids and he has always felt that the costs were out of control, long before the credit crunch hit the global economy.
What he has done here, along with his technical strategy guru Tony Purnell, is to take advantage of the car industry’s troubles to create a window for killing those three birds with one stone. The two class F1 is not ideal for anyone, but Mosley is calculating that no manufacturer will go for the uncapped option it because it would be unjustifiable to shareholders.
Meanwhile the five independent teams, Williams, Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Brawn and Force India all welcome the budget cap at the Ł40 million level because to them it means survival, profit and the chance to compete against the big boys. It’s Christmas for them.
The teams formed their association, FOTA, to represent their rights, but here FOTA is in big trouble because the five independents are on a collision course with the manufacturers, so Max has also achieved a fourth aim, to undermine FOTA.
Many people dislike his methods, but think about it this way, if F1 didn’t exist and you were Ferrari or any other manufacturer and someone came to you and said, “I’ve got a great idea for a racing series; we’ll have 17 races in key markets around the world, great TV package giving your brand a media value in the hundreds of millions per year and it will cost Ł40 million and it capped, so you can innovate within that figure and beat the others.”
I’m sure if you started with a clean sheet of paper, in other words, you might well go for it on that basis. But it’s hard to see the Mosley/Purnell vision for F1 because we come from an era of Ł200 million budgets. But why does it need to cost Ł200 million to win?
Shouldn’t Ferrari continue to win races? If you have something very good and you distill it to its core strengths, you end up with something sensational. So surely the 350 best people at Ferrari must be the equal or better of the 350 at any of the other teams?
One of my readers, Martin Samm, made this very valid point today,
“What I (as a member of Joe Public) want is a series of interesting/exciting races – I dont care if they spent 40 million or 200 million, as I’m sure they’ll be as cutting edge as ever regardless; engineers tend to be cunning like that!”
Martin also points out this is all happening at a time when races are being won by two independent teams, Brawn and Red Bull. Most people find this very refreshing and a good thing for F1.
It’s really hard to know which way to go on this one, because it represents a huge cultural shift in F1. You can see Ferrari’s point and they believe that they have right – and the law – on their side.
The way is clear for a summer of messy legal challenges, which would throw 2010 into chaos. Ferrari will not go quietly on this one and they have gathered the other manufacturers around them for a council of war. They make the engines, of course, so the independents are dependent on them.
That is why Cosworth is sitting on the sidelines, waiting.

 

I can't see Ferarri pulling out personally, it's just another ferarri scare tactic.

They know how important F1 to there buisness, likewise the FIA know how important it is to keep Ferarri in the sport.

This will all blow over by the end of the month then they'll have to find something else to moan about

 

F1 is fucking gay, they can't just race and leave it be. Theres got to be enormous amounts of arguing and controversy (sp?) There like a bunch of five year olds - 'if i don't get to play how i want i'm going home'

I was pleased to see that JB was doing well though.

Moto GP is better by far

 

Really have you watched the last couple of races? It's been pretty boring so far IMO not alot of overtaking after the first lap really (for the front runners)

F1 has been much more interesting so far this season, I must stress this is only my opinion.

 

Yes i have mate, i'm not saying that F1 isn't entertaining, it's just all the shit surrounding it

 

Oi toilet trousers, WSB is where the racing is at (WSS actually)



There are 4 teams looking at next year, mainly due to the proposed Ł40 million budget cap. they are Prodrive, (been trying to get into F1 for a few years, were links with a Honda buy out) Lola (had an F1 team a few years back) USF1 (working from the states, but thinking of a European Logistics base maybe in Spain or near Paul Ricard) and Isport (current GP2 team)

 

F1 is pap........... so boring.......

 

F1 has been utterly trashed by the cry babies and bickering.

 

you want intresting motorsport try motocross grand prix,s ,and supermoto

 

 

My thoughts exactly. I've heard of an expensive baseball cap, but this is just too much.

Benni.

 

Ferrari are only doing this cos they arnt getting there own way.

Andy

 

yeh i have no issues with it i just hope the Concorde agreement will come into play now where williams,toyota,bmw,and Mercedes will start a new series which will mean the rest will follow and that will mean the tv rights will end up in the teams pockets rather than bernies plus added to the fact there governing body will be formed of racing drivers rather than kinky old twats that realisticly shouldnt be there in the first place

 

Ferrari made formula 1 if you take them out of the game there won’t be formula 1 they used to dominate f1, but there making too many stupid rule changes now some of them are getting fed up with it.

 

very trueeeeee!

 

lotus used to dominate f1

tyrrell used to dominate f1

maserati used to dominate f1

williams used to dominate f1

Mclaren used to dominate f1


3 of those no longer exist ( altho Brawn is a decendant of Tyrrell )

Williams wont be part of a breakaway as they are in full favour of the budget cap

Does the sport collapse without Lotus.......every car on the grid owes its existence to Lotus, there was NO more important team. They are gone and the sport survives

If a budget cap isnt agreed, there wont be any f1 in a few years.

 

Concorde agreement doesnt exist

Williams backs the budget cap

 

The Ferarri haven't won Lemans since the Ford GT40 stole the thunder over 30 years ago. Ferarri refused to enter Lemans for a number of years after that i remember but i don't think it has hampered Lemans as a sporting series, the only come back from Ferrari was selling 50% or thereabouts off to Fiat not Ford. Sore loosers if you ask me!

 

Wow !!!

No thats the best thing you have ever said about F1...

 

Apart from the fact Bernie was indeed a racing driver himself , then a team owner as well and Max was a racing driver then founder of March, a pretty sucessfull team.

So yeah, lets give it to racing drivers and see what they do with it

 

+1.

 

What are we meant to do over here with Ferrari World that I've been assisting with at Yas Island lol

 

Just to note which is the bigger entity as well

Just the commercial rights part of F1 has a turnover of 447 million a year, excluding all the other activities )

Ferarri as a whole, including their roadcar business etc turns over 441 million.

 

I've read what Chip wrote twice to make sure I didn't miss anything and can't see where he said F1 makes most of it's money from Ferarri Merchandise?

He said Ferarri fans spend the most out of the others on the credited merchandise.

I can't imagine this makes up the largest part of TOTAL F1 income by a long stretch and I doubt Chip thinks that either. But I'm pretty sure it's a nice chunk of money that Bernie and Max would be reluctant to cut off.