With reference to these rules.....





Where does the forum rules stand regarding the trading, talking about, modifying cosworth YB chips/mapping for the IAW ECU range ?

ALL chips sold are illegal by the definition of these rules and are illegal copies of copies and/or modified versions of these original programs sold without permission from weber or Ford !

Lets not forget, traders and goldmembers on here openly trade these programs in the form of chips (eproms).

If these were music or DVD files for example, there would be a proper clamp down !

I say all this as it has been pointed out to me by someone that if I divulge mapping and/or ecu info, it breaks the site rules and I will get "moderated"..LOL. Is this correct ?

I await an official reply and sensible discussion by anyone who cares to speak

 

LOL, its been interesting seeing who has been looking at this and not made a comment...!!!

 

As long as they do not claim that the software contained on the chips is the intelectual property of the seller or tuner, there is no difference to selling a modified cylinder head or a modded throttle body.

But, I do see your point with it being software. However, also bear in mind that you can modify your operating system by way of themes and other programs without being in breach of copyright, and if your software was purchased retail you can sell it on too.

Tough one to call as there are so many different examples of what could and couldnt be a breach of copyright / intelectual property etc...

 

In short, you are basing your question on an assumption that is in fact incorrect. We do not breach copyright. Please allow me to elaborate...

When you buy a music CD, movie DVD or software title in the UK, its packaging will somewhere state that you are in fact only buying a license to use it and must not copy, alter, distribute or reproduce it without written consent. this is also common knowledge, pushed by adverts from folk like FAST all the time.

When you buy a car from the UK, its a different matter indeed. You do not have any such laws prohibiting you from doing any form of modification to it and the general consensus is that you can do as you please as its your hardware. Much the same as your house is when you buy that. This includes the ECU and its control software.

Should Bosch, Siemens, Weber etc or indeed the software owner, (likely the vehicle OE not the manufacturer) choose to challenge this in a court of law, and win, they could then prove copyright infringement and stop us doing what we do, but until such a case happens, (And rumours have circulated for a long time that its about to) the owner of the vehicle can ask us to do whatever we like and we are altering his equipment with his consent, which of course adds the legal question was the owner at fault too? Its a minefield that the manufacturer's have chosen to avoid thus far, enforced by the fact that modification of ecu software does in fact create/save the OE money in general as long gone are the days of blow ups, people now buy vehicles because of their remapping ability (Much the same reason as Intel released their clock lock policy and then overtook AMD within months...) and of course faults with the vehicle can be rejected due to a remap if they so wish as not modifying is usually part of the warranty agreement. A win win for them. Hope this helps.

I must say, you have flipped from the data protection act last week, to copyright infringement this week. A more paranoid administrator might think it was a personal vendetta by someone trying to show that he doesn't know his job... Lucky I do, so i don't think that!

 

the only reason i can think of for you not being able to put mapping info up is because its killing tuners business, which i have to agree with it is wrong

 

P to the WND

 

That could be compared to open source programs in the computing world, I hardly see any of that being detrimental to those who trade in such media. In fact I think it contributes and keeps those who charge for their services on their toes.

Nothing wrong with healthy competition in my eyes and any trader worth their weight shouldn't be scared of such things.

Tim

 

I don't know who has told him this, and its certainly not me as i couldn't care less about his weber source code extractor and have already closed the loophole in all my own software including my forthcoming P8 ALS/LC software, but the fact is, this project was placed for sale on this very forum and then locked because of that fact, i know it was for sale as apart from the topic on here, he offered it to me personally and I rejected it. Seems odd that its now free. I personally suspect its a ploy to gain more commercial exposure before he changes his mind again and tries to sell, so it wont be recieving exposure on PassionFord.

 

Stu,
Thanks for taking time to reply and I tend to agree with your comments.

However, I only asked as I mentioned that I habe been informed that you or other moderators may take action against me for disclosing ecu secrets.

To me as the site is allowing such activities of this grey area to happen for profit, then anything I discover or publish should not be affected by these same rules even less so as I am not trading ... Does that make sense ?

Would you clarifty my position on this please ?


Why ? They have had 20 years run at it !!!

I wouldnt post up the actual mapping tables data contents. Jusy maybe address locations and what the data means. Sample program codes explaning how it works, protocol access information ,...etc

Most tuners tell me there is no money in cossies anymore.
Besides most tuners knew I was doing this and made no attempt to make me an offer I could refuse..LOL

In fact one peterborough tuner told me via a 3rd party it wasnt possible...LOL..

 

Thanks.
We are heading of topic now, all your questions are answered so topic locked.