Just got back from the rolling road today my s1 escort made 214 bhp and 240 torque. the mods are as follows

chip (was on car when bought so unknown origin)
standard cam
front mount cooler
exhaust and air filter.
its running 19psi.

my mate has cossie management on an xr2 turbo and has 230bhp...... I want to get on his nerves and prove that i can get more power for cheaper than what he spent "upgrading" to 1986 technology.... any ideas?

pressure feed from inlet to the fuel regulator?
vernier pulley from ebay?
more boost and hear it det and go bang.... maybe not?

on a real tight budget here folks..... ie £200 ish plus rolling road set up costs!

 

Look out for a properly ported and flowed head second hand!
Should give you an extra 20bhp easily, maybe more! But it must have been done PROPERLY, not some dude with a dremel!

 

why not try weight saving and better brakes? they make a difference!!

cossie brakes would be fine at that sort of bhp and are as cheap as chips compared to the next step in modding your engine.

i'd take a stab and say ported and polished head, or maybe a cam next but your prob looking at £200 each i'd say.

 

The metering head doesn't flow a huge amount more air so you're wasting time and money trying to extract single figures from it. Ditching that restrictive junk and going over to EFI will instantly win you power, mainly because of the less restrictive intake tract - not because its efi!

 

Thats a very good point you are right on the limit of the fuelling! Some metering heads wont even fuel for as much as you are running!!
But you wont know unless you try!

 

like it sensible people making sensible comments..... unfortunately I have already done the brakes! and I also have some minor weight saving issues where the car is turning to rust!! ha ha!

I just want to beat the smug fool in a straight line on power!.....

i like the other comment about the second hand head as well..... what should i be looking for though? how can i tell a good un? I would not be able to tell the difference between a Stevie wonder dremel special and one worked over by a formala 1 mcclaren engine builder!

 

the price

 

i take on board the comments about the mfi....defo near the limits but just want to see how far i can go on it though!

call me old fashioned but i prefer it!......

 

what about on "the bay".... mind you i might be better taking my hard earned to the casino and spending the winnings (if there are any) on a good head!!! ha ha ha!

 

seen nearer 250-290 on MFI stuff,long as its in good order theres no reason it wont work,just wont stop b4 it goes bang,lol

 

5th injector and a cam would be your next steps, and def get that fuel mod done. (this is only make things safer no power)

also an 19 psi i'd look into water/methanol injection kit ( i have this)

but with that sort of power on them mods you must already have stuff that you dont know about (head or turbo etc etc)

my s2 makes 189bhp with the same mods as you (15psi instead of 19) and every tuner ive been to seems to think my engine has had work

when it was originally set up i was told it was standard and it would make between 160 and 170 and its making nearly 190 which suggests to me there is other stuff done i don't know about i'd think its the same with you car.

if u go fiesta efi now you'll lose power and it'll cost you to get it as you need the chip, injectors and a set up which is not cheap on EEC stuff

 

also with a torque figure of 240 i'd say you have a non standard turbo and head work

 

"my mate has cossie management on an xr2 turbo and has 230bhp...... I want to get on his nerves and prove that i can get more power for cheaper than what he spent "upgrading" to 1986 technology.... any ideas?"


LOL, 1986 technology has allowed us to run 174 mph on a 1.6 cvh powered car and 0 - 100 mph in 9 seconds! Clearly old means sh!t to some people. What also makes me laugh, is that people forget I map all types of management not just weber marelli so when it comes to choosing a mgmt to run on a ERST I could chose from so many different manufacturers. The reason I use weber marelli on cvh turbo's is because it is the best management out there for a 4 cylinder turbo engine! END OF STORY!

 

I assume you're primarily talking about value-for-money?

 

You still have a lot left in the Mfi. 5th injector is next thing on the list. You don't say what turbo you have.

 

i think it's to do with the manufacturer spending a lot of time and money developing it specifically for a 4 cylinder turbo engine - i was told a lot of the other available after market management caters for different types of engines so would inevitably need more time to get it to run as optimal?


a well known and widely used management was installed on one of my family's vehicles and only it's inventor was able to get the car to idle - ford spent a lot longer than 3 weeks getting it to run to it's best
PS it was still appalling to drive, even after being away for weeks to perfect it's map

 

i had 280bhp out of my mfi system using a 5th injector and and motorsport grade metering unit which flowed 25% more efficient, but then had to change to cossie managment and ran 300bhp easy and pretty reliably

 

Whats the motorsport grade metering unit? Is it a mod to the standard or a different unit?

 

Its a uprated standard unit dont ask me what they do to it as not sure but it worked brilliantly

 

personally I believe its very unlikely you can get a genuine 214bhp on just a chip, front mount, exhaust and filter.

Would be interested to see the graphs

 

theres more to be had out of the mfi unit. seen 260bhp on mfi. although at constant high revs it does tend to fall off. so watch your afr's .

214bhp... im not saying its false but rollers do tend to have 10-20bhp difference between them... when did he have the rollers last calibrated..

the spec you menssion i would have thought 190bhp but you must have uprated turbo etc etc..

 

mine had standard head and bottom end(brand new bottom end)
chip,filter ,exhaust,kent cam and vernier and double capacity pace intercooler and that made 210 bhp and 226lb ft torque on jamsports rollers.
do u think thats rite then or rollers wrong?

 

Man there's some funny stuff floating around in this thread.

Incidentally, I'd be amazed if the spec listed in the first post on this thread made more than 180bhp on our rollers.

 

wot about mine christian(above).was set up by jamie at jamsport at 15 psi boost.he built me a brand new bottom end then put it all back 2gether 4 me and gave it a setup. and thats the figures it made.got the printout 4 it.cud take a pic of printout 2morow.

 

Well, put it this way, D4nny8oy on here has a CVH engine that we built. Low comp, standard rebuilt head, Newman Cam, Stage 2 T3 Turbo and I consider that to be absolutely as far as that setup could go powerwise at 215bhp. That has been mapped extremely well on EFi and is one of the fastest RST's I have driven (obviously bar mine and Tony's), suggesting to me that I have driven alot of cars that 'claim' power, but very actually have it!

Danny's power is now restricted by his exhaust housing, in my opinion and I would be amazed if anyone could get any more power out of his spec.

I also believe that a proper 200bhp simply is not possible on a standard T3 turbo with 1600cc's. When I say 200bhp, I mean 200bhp on the same rollers as I made 350bhp.

 

so are u saying jamsports rollers are way out then?
i was there wen he set it all up,so it was my car lol
i aint moaning or anything,im just sayin,thats the spec and i will take a foto of the printout 2morow.
it also did a 14.4 quarter mile, terminal 101mph at shakespeare county raceway

 

With you Christian, TOTD said the same thing when they set mine up, a standard T3 is not good for more than 180-190bhp at the very most, it cannot flow enough to make any more power (boost is irrelevant, it's the volume of air/fuel mix in the chambers that counts!).

 

mine was a standard brand new t3,the last few bhp were made by adding a vernier pulley.

 

I can't/won't comment on Jamsports rollers, I have never seen them, but of course Jamie does know his stuff.

As for the 1/4 mile stuff, Andy RST used to manage mid 14's in his RST, he just had the knack.

One thing I do know though is that I had a reality check between what power I believed I had from the dyno I used to use and when I got a good run out of it on our Dyno Dynamics dyno.

However, in the last 2 weeks, we've run a standard ST220 Mondeo that made 224bhp and a Civic Type-R that the owner said should make 201bhp and it made 200.4bhp.

 

yeah jamie does know his stuff,i had a escort cab turbo few years bk,standard engine again,just a chip air filter and a pace chargecooler.that made 186 bhp and 191 lb ft torque at jamsport.relised the day after that my exhaust manifold gasket was on the wrong way around and was slightly covering the exhaust ports so may have made a touch more.

 

I just wish our Rolling Road days had a better uptake. Would love to see a few of these cars run on a level playing field.....

 

so i take it u think the rollers dont read correctly?
i aint havin a go mate,just askin.
cos maybe thats wot the problem is.i dont know cos i dont know how they work etc.

 

Now that would be interesting! No more Pub BHP figures! LOL!

I'll be coming up to see you once i've got my Stage 2 T3 and my Apexi AVC-R at Christmas, dont want the drive down to TOTD again, took 2 and a half hours! M25 was a twat!!

 

None of this stuff is new. Don't forget these cars came out over 20 years ago and top tuners have already been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Extensive dyno testing has been done with lots of different configurations so what works and what doesn't is pretty much known.

I personally have tested the metering unit and found it simply doesn't want to flow much more than about 230hp worth of air (in the car with everything else). Make of that what you will.

 

Really?
I would never have thought that you'd reach the limit of air flow, the air filter inlet is what 5inches?? and the boost hose fitment to the metering head is 3inches? It's only really then what the turbo can suck in and what the head can flow isnt it?
I thought it was always the fuelling that toped out first, thats why people fit a 5th injector, to fuel for the extra air they are forcing in above what the metering head can fuel for!

 

Exactly, and it is by the additional fuel enrichment that you can deduce it is not flowing any more air.

 

I'm confused!
Surely you mean it's not flowing any more fuel hence the enrichment? (we are not adding air, but fuel!)
Or do you mean the flap is fully open, and so the metering head is not registering any more air flow and so not fuelling any more for it? Hence reached it's air flow limit?
Obviously this is not the physical limit of air flow through the metering head because we know it can flow more air than what it can fuel for, or the 5th injector would be pointless!

 

I'll spell it out for you..

Yes, the when the flap is fully open you require additional enrichment. So lets say at 1.2 bar of boost you require X amount of enrichment to maintain a wanted AFR.. Then you wind it up to 1.4 bar of boost (on a turbo that is more than happy to supply the air flow) but the AFR doesn't change...

If it was flowing more air, then it would go lean until you added more enrichment..

 

It's amazing that so many people have 200bhp escorts and 400bhp cossies and how few of these actually do what the owners state when you read the magazine shoot outs.

 

Let me spell it out for you!!

You said:
"it simply doesn't want to flow much more than about 230hp worth of air "

You dont mean air at all you mean fuel!!
Your first post is wrong because as you say above here it will quite happily flow more air:
"(on a turbo that is more than happy to supply the air flow)"
but:
"it would go lean until you added more enrichment."

So to clear this up!
The metering head will supply more air than for 230bhp but not any more FUEL! Anyone wanting to go above that figure will need extra enrichment, like a 5th injector!