FOCUS RS 4x4 COSWORTH 24 - 02 - 2013
17-12-2010, 08:23 AM
#921
Borg Warner EFR Equipped!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: In the unit, building a 450bhp Time Attack Focus!
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Hi Simon,
I assume you know that you know the Focus ST170 dash clocks are driven by a data bus network out of the Black Oak ECU?
I had big problems in the summer when I put a ST170 on throttle bodies and aftermarket management, I kept the fuel, water temp and speedo working but couldn't get the tacho. I made a splitter loom to share the crank sensor signal going into the two ECUs but not joy, I reconnected the cam sensor, no joy. In the end I had to fit a STACK to get things moving (plus he was revving higher than standard anyway!).
Hope you can get it sorted though!
I assume you know that you know the Focus ST170 dash clocks are driven by a data bus network out of the Black Oak ECU?
I had big problems in the summer when I put a ST170 on throttle bodies and aftermarket management, I kept the fuel, water temp and speedo working but couldn't get the tacho. I made a splitter loom to share the crank sensor signal going into the two ECUs but not joy, I reconnected the cam sensor, no joy. In the end I had to fit a STACK to get things moving (plus he was revving higher than standard anyway!).
Hope you can get it sorted though!
17-12-2010, 04:39 PM
#923
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Hi Simon,
I assume you know that you know the Focus ST170 dash clocks are driven by a data bus network out of the Black Oak ECU?
I had big problems in the summer when I put a ST170 on throttle bodies and aftermarket management, I kept the fuel, water temp and speedo working but couldn't get the tacho. I made a splitter loom to share the crank sensor signal going into the two ECUs but not joy, I reconnected the cam sensor, no joy. In the end I had to fit a STACK to get things moving (plus he was revving higher than standard anyway!).
Hope you can get it sorted though!
I assume you know that you know the Focus ST170 dash clocks are driven by a data bus network out of the Black Oak ECU?
I had big problems in the summer when I put a ST170 on throttle bodies and aftermarket management, I kept the fuel, water temp and speedo working but couldn't get the tacho. I made a splitter loom to share the crank sensor signal going into the two ECUs but not joy, I reconnected the cam sensor, no joy. In the end I had to fit a STACK to get things moving (plus he was revving higher than standard anyway!).
Hope you can get it sorted though!
Pretty sure you need to run 2 sensors off the crank pulley (for the ECU and rev counter) mounted in a twin WRC crank sensor bracket.
Any aftermarket speed sensor will probably be required to run the Tacho.
All good fun lol
18-12-2010, 08:25 AM
#926
the focus dash will run on the databus output from ANY focus mk1 ECU as hes found.
what he is trying to do is fool the ford ecu enough with inputs to put the datastream operational. doesnt matter if the ecu is stuck in LOS and shits out loads of fault codes.
EECV ECU's determine engine rpm from the crank sensor which outputs an analogue sine wave which is converted into a digital PIP signal in the ecu and its that PIP signal thats necessary so the ecu knows the engine rpm/crank position.
in theory from what ive found out on late EECV the crank position sensor is the key. camshaft position is not essential as the engine will use last stored data and go into LOS reducing performance. There is no logical reason for ECU LOS to kill the dash data stream.....
the reason he needs 2 crank sensors is because the ford and webber sensor on cossies work differently so are not compatible.
the key with this project is what sensor inputs are necessary on engine start up for the data stream to the dash (or in theory WDS2000 equipment) to start and hence the dash to function correctly.
so far its crank position sensor that seems to be the key.
yes its a bit of experimentation to do it, but when it costs in real terms pennies to play around and just your own time then why not have a go?? especially when you consider the cost of a stack dash!!
I will be getting a st170 dash running on my car eventually.
what he is trying to do is fool the ford ecu enough with inputs to put the datastream operational. doesnt matter if the ecu is stuck in LOS and shits out loads of fault codes.
EECV ECU's determine engine rpm from the crank sensor which outputs an analogue sine wave which is converted into a digital PIP signal in the ecu and its that PIP signal thats necessary so the ecu knows the engine rpm/crank position.
in theory from what ive found out on late EECV the crank position sensor is the key. camshaft position is not essential as the engine will use last stored data and go into LOS reducing performance. There is no logical reason for ECU LOS to kill the dash data stream.....
the reason he needs 2 crank sensors is because the ford and webber sensor on cossies work differently so are not compatible.
the key with this project is what sensor inputs are necessary on engine start up for the data stream to the dash (or in theory WDS2000 equipment) to start and hence the dash to function correctly.
so far its crank position sensor that seems to be the key.
yes its a bit of experimentation to do it, but when it costs in real terms pennies to play around and just your own time then why not have a go?? especially when you consider the cost of a stack dash!!
I will be getting a st170 dash running on my car eventually.
18-12-2010, 08:32 AM
#927
oh and speed sensor wise, the standard focus speed sensor fits into the speedo cable thingy on the 4x4 sump. so thats not difficult to sort.
Will i think splitting the crank signal is where it went wrong. If you think from the ECU sensor input point of view, if everything is connected to the ECU then it knows no different. its only when certain sensors are missing that it picks up faults on its own internal checking software and spunks out fault codes and initiates LOS if its bad enough.
even worst case you could fool the ecu CCM software by fitting a voltage output to the missing circuits but even so you shouldnt need to do that as long as the key sensors for the engine (namely Crank position) are hooked up.
maybe its a anomoly with blackoak being more advanced than standard EECV despite still being based on the EECV architechture??
Will i think splitting the crank signal is where it went wrong. If you think from the ECU sensor input point of view, if everything is connected to the ECU then it knows no different. its only when certain sensors are missing that it picks up faults on its own internal checking software and spunks out fault codes and initiates LOS if its bad enough.
even worst case you could fool the ecu CCM software by fitting a voltage output to the missing circuits but even so you shouldnt need to do that as long as the key sensors for the engine (namely Crank position) are hooked up.
maybe its a anomoly with blackoak being more advanced than standard EECV despite still being based on the EECV architechture??
18-12-2010, 09:00 AM
#928
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
QUOTE " Will i think splitting the crank signal is where it went wrong. If you think from the ECU sensor input point of view, if everything is connected to the ECU then it knows no different. its only when certain sensors are missing that it picks up faults on its own internal checking software and spunks out fault codes and initiates LOS if its bad enough. " QUOTE
Thats the key issue , keeping everything in situ and the ecu's know no different.
That way the focus ecu and the cosworth ecu happily work parallel.
Thats the key issue , keeping everything in situ and the ecu's know no different.
That way the focus ecu and the cosworth ecu happily work parallel.
Last edited by focus 4x4; 18-12-2010 at 09:00 AM. Reason: .
18-12-2010, 09:08 AM
#930
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
as requested,
Dont have the RS clocks to hand but will get more pictures up later and of the ST170 clocks fitted and working properly! ;o)
Dont have the RS clocks to hand but will get more pictures up later and of the ST170 clocks fitted and working properly! ;o)
18-12-2010, 09:11 AM
#931
Ford speed sensor in cossie 4x4 speedo cable thingy:
LOL would want to get it working before promising to fix other peoples cars up.
the problem with this kind of mod is in an ideal world youd just speak to the software designer for ford and he would tell you exactly what parameters need to be met for the ECU to commence datastream communication. Unfortunately we dont have that so its best guess and experimentation based on what is available about the fault modes.
LOL would want to get it working before promising to fix other peoples cars up.
the problem with this kind of mod is in an ideal world youd just speak to the software designer for ford and he would tell you exactly what parameters need to be met for the ECU to commence datastream communication. Unfortunately we dont have that so its best guess and experimentation based on what is available about the fault modes.
18-12-2010, 10:01 AM
#936
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
18-12-2010, 10:06 AM
#938
Youll need one of these to covert the cosworth speedo drive .
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p1...duct_info.html
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p1...duct_info.html
18-12-2010, 10:10 AM
#939
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Just need to convert the speedo drvie into an electrical impulse.
Last edited by focus 4x4; 18-12-2010 at 10:15 AM. Reason: .
18-12-2010, 10:24 AM
#941
The one above is oviously the type that doesn't have the speedo cable fitting on top and is off a Focus as I recall, I can't find a pic of the other type. Edited to say Ian has posted the other type I'm talking about.
Last edited by Martin-Hadland; 18-12-2010 at 10:26 AM.
18-12-2010, 10:27 AM
#942
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
They make two types of body, one simply screws onto the speedo drive and provides a signal the other is exactly the same but instead of being blank on the top has a thread that accepts the speedo cable.
The one above is oviously the type that doesn't have the speedo cable fitting on top and is off a Focus as I recall, I can't find a pic of the other type.
The one above is oviously the type that doesn't have the speedo cable fitting on top and is off a Focus as I recall, I can't find a pic of the other type.
18-12-2010, 10:37 AM
#945
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
18-12-2010, 11:58 AM
#949
18-12-2010, 02:09 PM
#951
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Stayed home and fitted the ST170 clocks instead!
Here they are fitted.........
All powered up...........
And lastly the all important back lighting, woking perfectly without having to use the ST170 loom or Oil gauges.
Here they are fitted.........
All powered up...........
And lastly the all important back lighting, woking perfectly without having to use the ST170 loom or Oil gauges.
18-12-2010, 04:27 PM
#953
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
Fortunately the dash doesnt disply live mpg, that displayed in a seperate digital display only found on the focus ghia models.
18-12-2010, 06:12 PM
#956
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
18-12-2010, 06:25 PM
#957
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Location: North Wales....Congleton now though!
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The boost gauge isn't very accurate on a Focus RS anyway, so maybe you can adapt a temp gauge there instead, someone else has done something similar on here....can't remember who though 
18-12-2010, 06:29 PM
#958
PassionFord Post Troll
Thread Starter
I'm surprised you were taking the time to fit ST clocks if you could get RS clocks that actually suits the RS styling and interior. Get it fitted! The boost gauge isn't very accurate on a Focus RS anyway, so maybe you can adapt a temp gauge there instead, someone else has done something similar on here....can't remember who though
The boost gauge isn't very accurate on a Focus RS anyway, so maybe you can adapt a temp gauge there instead, someone else has done something similar on here....can't remember who though
18-12-2010, 08:53 PM
#960
focus 4x4 as said in pm do NOT buy an aftermarket speed sensor when a free second hand ford one will do!!
if your loom hasnt been fully cut up yet then the wiring might still be there.
that working dash pic, was that in your focus mule or the cossie engined one??
if your loom hasnt been fully cut up yet then the wiring might still be there.
that working dash pic, was that in your focus mule or the cossie engined one??