Are Greenlight trying to loose business?
10-12-2008 | 05:54 PM
#44
20K+ Super Poster.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 20,599
Likes: 0
From: Ramsgate, Kent Drives: E39 530D Touring
If the car got stolen, I would still be massivley out of pocket at 22k, let alone the joke of 14k they were offering 
IMHO you are looking at between 12-14k just to find a tidy standardish base car. Then consider the "big" mods only....
1) Gearbox is 4k
2)Clutch and hydrualic conversion is £1200
3)Front diff was £950
4)AP brakes- £1562
5) 6 Degree Rear beam £950
etc etc, bearing in mind my car is highly modded, and there are lots of other mods that cost a lot of £££. I don't expect the TRUE value of the car which would be close to 40k I recon
, but as a lot of people like Dave cos 4x4, Mad Rod etc understand, 14k is a bit of a joke considering the money invested in the car, in parts alone let alone time and labour costs 
....
Yes Adrian flux have had exactly the same photos and details as Greenlight got sent, and they have agreed 22k which is in my opinion a sensible valuation considering wear and tear over time etc.
Dave Cos 4x4, did they not let you buy your Escort back to salvage parts off?
IMHO you are looking at between 12-14k just to find a tidy standardish base car. Then consider the "big" mods only....1) Gearbox is 4k
2)Clutch and hydrualic conversion is £1200
3)Front diff was £950
4)AP brakes- £1562
5) 6 Degree Rear beam £950
etc etc, bearing in mind my car is highly modded, and there are lots of other mods that cost a lot of £££. I don't expect the TRUE value of the car which would be close to 40k I recon
, but as a lot of people like Dave cos 4x4, Mad Rod etc understand, 14k is a bit of a joke considering the money invested in the car, in parts alone let alone time and labour costs ....Yes Adrian flux have had exactly the same photos and details as Greenlight got sent, and they have agreed 22k which is in my opinion a sensible valuation considering wear and tear over time etc.
Dave Cos 4x4, did they not let you buy your Escort back to salvage parts off?
if you were to SELL the car right now, would you expect it to fetch 20-40k?
money you spend on a car is money wasted, and this includes insurance write off values. if it wasnt rhe case people would be writing their cars off for big payouts instead of selling them
10-12-2008 | 06:27 PM
#45
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,463
Likes: 23
From: Manchestoh
yes but unfortuantely thats not how modified cars values nor insurance works.
if you were to SELL the car right now, would you expect it to fetch 20-40k?
money you spend on a car is money wasted, and this includes insurance write off values. if it wasnt rhe case people would be writing their cars off for big payouts instead of selling them
if you were to SELL the car right now, would you expect it to fetch 20-40k?
money you spend on a car is money wasted, and this includes insurance write off values. if it wasnt rhe case people would be writing their cars off for big payouts instead of selling them
The insurers will write the car off when the damage cost is over a certain % of the vehicle's value, and if your car is valued at the top end of the scale in theory the less chance the car will be written off.
10-12-2008 | 06:30 PM
#46
if we are talking about RS cars, then surely most of then will be written off due to the 'no longer available' parts, makes no difference if the car is valued high.
11-12-2008 | 02:58 PM
#47
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Brentwood, Essex
OK.. I have a couple of days off and come back to Greenlight's Passion Ford 'world gone mad'.
Having been part of this community for nearly 6 years now and interacted with you all along the way, wherever and whenever required, whether you're covered with us or simply needed hypothetical advice.
This thread seems to have turned into a witch hunt and I'm disappointed that people didnt feel that they could contact me if they were experiencing difficulties or for a problem solving solution at the time.
The reason that i'm here is to liaise with you, with a view to helping anyone that I could.
I have spoken to quite a number of you over the years and have always done all I could to assist those of you that had contacted me on an individual level.
There are times where we cannot help with what you require, but I have always explained as to why in a polite and professional manner.
Having now read the comments upon this thread I will look to contact each and every one of you as to the issues that you have raised, starting at the beginning and working through all - via PM (where data protection could be an issue) or overtly within this thread where possible.
Clearly we've been performing for some of you, but have not met quite a number of your expectations and have P'D a number of you off, which is something that i'm personally unhappy with.
In some cases, I can't always change what has happened to you individually to make you feel that we have failed in your particular case, but we do wish to learn and improve our service wherever possible.
To begin with, the key points that seemed to be raised within the thread were as follows:
Online (New Business) Applications
After an extensive period of due diligence in relation to a new operating system (our tools of the trade) we went live in July 2007 upon what was portrayed to us as the best broker system on the planet.
The reality of this was that we were shown an artists impression of a system, which when we went live transpired to be a 'beta test' rather than a turnkey system.
We discovered nearly 900 bugs, errors and problems with the system in all areas of our business and had to develop work-arounds/fixes for each and every one of these.
One of the issues that we had in July 2007 was that to key a new quotation upon the system with the customer on the telephone would take 20-25 minutes - which is totally unacceptable.
Having endured this for a month, we took the view that to effectively manage enquiries for our customers the best way forward would be to capture the detail online.
Our online application has a free format area for modifications, which can be cut and pasted into.
With our marketing and sponsorships being almost entirely online through forums/affinities and online advertising the customer would already have online access to get to the respective forum/affinity, search engine or banner advert - thus an online application for prospective customers who were already online seemed to be the best solution.
I agree that whilst an online application process is more efficient and is effective for quite a number of you, it can be seen as quite clinical and lacks the personal touch.
One you have applied online you can contact and discuss the application in the same way as before July 2007 via the telephone.
The failures of the alleged all singing & dancing operating system had impacted upon our operation in a number of areas. In December 2007 we took the view that we could no longer work with the failing system and undertook another process of due diligence, which led to our replacing the system with one that actually does what it says on the tin in June 2008.
With Insurance contracts being annual we had to place the failing system into run-off, which effectively means that we are running two operating systems alongside one another.
Our new business quotations have stayed as online applications whilst we focussed upon developing the system we installed in June 2008 to replace our failing system.
We are looking at reinstating our telephone quotation service, as this was only ceased due to the embarrasing 20-25 mins it was taking to process a quotation back in July 2007. With the new operating system now taking 4-5 minutes it is something that we are considering and we will post as soon as this changes.
Quotations for prior customers who have lapsed, but not reinsured their vehicle since and where their circumstances are still the same are easier to assist - this will involve our staff referring to your prior record and your confirming that there have been no changes since to run a comparison, resulting in providing an up to date quotation for you.
Multi-car policies
Due to the nature of the vehicles that we cover being high performance &/or modified, our Underwriters require No claims bonus to be used upon the high performance car.
This makes sense in as much as in percentage terms, using the highest percentage discount upon the most expensive car saves you the maximum amount possible.
We do have several Underwriters that can "mirror" your NCB percentage onto a second car, which as an example if you had 65% 4 years NCB upon your first car and were free of fault/non-recoverable claims for the period of the discount we could source an Underwriter to mirror the percentage. resulting in 65% 0 years.
If you were claim free, the 65% 0 years would then become 65% 1 year from renewal and increase in the same manner each year.
Agreed value vs Market value
All policies within the motor Insurance market are based upon market value unless a request is made for an agreed valuation assessment.
Market value contracts are based upon your initial indication of the vehicle value at the point of application the ceiling that will be paid.
A qualified independent motor engineer would be hired by the respective Insurer to determine the market value of the vehicle at the point of the claim.
We have historically offered agreed value policies on a free of charge basis to owners of extensively modified cars.
There is an assessment process involving a requirement for photographs to highlight vehicle condition, along with copies of receipts for vehicle modifications.
If details/receipts are not available or photographs highlight poor condition, this may impact upon the valuation.
Valuing Modified vehicles
This process may differ from Insurer to Insurer, but the outline process used in the event that an identical/similar vehicle cannot be found for sale upon sites such as pistonheads would be as follows:
The condition of the vehicle would be assessed, with a base value being determined by the inspecting engineer/assessor. Glass's/Parkers guides would also be referred to by some Insurers to assist with the base vehicle value (before modifications). Service histories, overall condition and mileage would influence the base price.
Having determined the base vehicle value, modifications would then be listed and assessed for their impact in monetary terms upon the vehicle.
Bearing in mind that the base value does often include a part upon the vehicle that will form part of the base value, where parts are already present the Insurer would usually add the difference between the base and modified part, then where applicable apply wear & tear (if any).
A standard vehicle being fitted with after market Alloy wheels would effectively increase the value by the difference between the cost to replace the standard wheels and the new after market wheels.
This being on the basis that the standard wheels would be form part of the base value, if these were removed and replaced with after market parts you would effectively be reducing the value by the cost of the wheels removed - then replacing them with the after market wheels.
Taking this a step further you would then effectively apply the same equation (to that demonstrated with the alloy wheel example) to all parts. In the event that parts were not present you would add the full market value of the individual part concerned.
Like for like replacement
Bearing in mind that most of the specialist brokers will be using the same Insurance providers/Insurers as we do (albeit with differing pricing structures dependent upon performance with that particular Insurer) it is likely that anyone offering like for like replacement cover would be doing do on the same basis as we do.
To clarify, like for like replacement of modified parts is designed to replace after market parts with the identical part (equivalent or cash value in event that the part is obsolete) in event of a repairable/replaceable incident.
This effectively applies in the event a vehicle has parts stolen from it, or has parts damaged in an accident that does not result in the vehicle being a total loss (write off).
If the vehicle is classed as a total loss it is likely that it will be valued as described above within the Market value, Agreed Value and valuing modified vehicle area.
To conclude
We are the same operation as we always were, we have experienced massive system issues between July 2007-June 2008 which have led to a number of work-arounds to maintain a service.
The work-arounds are being unravelled as we go and as the latest system purchased (launched June 2008) delivers what it's predecessor should have.
The long and short of it is - "I.T. - cant live with it, cant live without it...."
As mentioned before, I'm aiming to contact as many of you as possible within this thread via PM over the next week with a view to discussing your experiences further.
Kindest regards & apologies for the Epic.
Tony Fehily
Senior Partner
Greenlight Insurance
Having been part of this community for nearly 6 years now and interacted with you all along the way, wherever and whenever required, whether you're covered with us or simply needed hypothetical advice.
This thread seems to have turned into a witch hunt and I'm disappointed that people didnt feel that they could contact me if they were experiencing difficulties or for a problem solving solution at the time.
The reason that i'm here is to liaise with you, with a view to helping anyone that I could.
I have spoken to quite a number of you over the years and have always done all I could to assist those of you that had contacted me on an individual level.
There are times where we cannot help with what you require, but I have always explained as to why in a polite and professional manner.
Having now read the comments upon this thread I will look to contact each and every one of you as to the issues that you have raised, starting at the beginning and working through all - via PM (where data protection could be an issue) or overtly within this thread where possible.
Clearly we've been performing for some of you, but have not met quite a number of your expectations and have P'D a number of you off, which is something that i'm personally unhappy with.
In some cases, I can't always change what has happened to you individually to make you feel that we have failed in your particular case, but we do wish to learn and improve our service wherever possible.
To begin with, the key points that seemed to be raised within the thread were as follows:
Online (New Business) Applications
After an extensive period of due diligence in relation to a new operating system (our tools of the trade) we went live in July 2007 upon what was portrayed to us as the best broker system on the planet.
The reality of this was that we were shown an artists impression of a system, which when we went live transpired to be a 'beta test' rather than a turnkey system.
We discovered nearly 900 bugs, errors and problems with the system in all areas of our business and had to develop work-arounds/fixes for each and every one of these.
One of the issues that we had in July 2007 was that to key a new quotation upon the system with the customer on the telephone would take 20-25 minutes - which is totally unacceptable.
Having endured this for a month, we took the view that to effectively manage enquiries for our customers the best way forward would be to capture the detail online.
Our online application has a free format area for modifications, which can be cut and pasted into.
With our marketing and sponsorships being almost entirely online through forums/affinities and online advertising the customer would already have online access to get to the respective forum/affinity, search engine or banner advert - thus an online application for prospective customers who were already online seemed to be the best solution.
I agree that whilst an online application process is more efficient and is effective for quite a number of you, it can be seen as quite clinical and lacks the personal touch.
One you have applied online you can contact and discuss the application in the same way as before July 2007 via the telephone.
The failures of the alleged all singing & dancing operating system had impacted upon our operation in a number of areas. In December 2007 we took the view that we could no longer work with the failing system and undertook another process of due diligence, which led to our replacing the system with one that actually does what it says on the tin in June 2008.
With Insurance contracts being annual we had to place the failing system into run-off, which effectively means that we are running two operating systems alongside one another.
Our new business quotations have stayed as online applications whilst we focussed upon developing the system we installed in June 2008 to replace our failing system.
We are looking at reinstating our telephone quotation service, as this was only ceased due to the embarrasing 20-25 mins it was taking to process a quotation back in July 2007. With the new operating system now taking 4-5 minutes it is something that we are considering and we will post as soon as this changes.
Quotations for prior customers who have lapsed, but not reinsured their vehicle since and where their circumstances are still the same are easier to assist - this will involve our staff referring to your prior record and your confirming that there have been no changes since to run a comparison, resulting in providing an up to date quotation for you.
Multi-car policies
Due to the nature of the vehicles that we cover being high performance &/or modified, our Underwriters require No claims bonus to be used upon the high performance car.
This makes sense in as much as in percentage terms, using the highest percentage discount upon the most expensive car saves you the maximum amount possible.
We do have several Underwriters that can "mirror" your NCB percentage onto a second car, which as an example if you had 65% 4 years NCB upon your first car and were free of fault/non-recoverable claims for the period of the discount we could source an Underwriter to mirror the percentage. resulting in 65% 0 years.
If you were claim free, the 65% 0 years would then become 65% 1 year from renewal and increase in the same manner each year.
Agreed value vs Market value
All policies within the motor Insurance market are based upon market value unless a request is made for an agreed valuation assessment.
Market value contracts are based upon your initial indication of the vehicle value at the point of application the ceiling that will be paid.
A qualified independent motor engineer would be hired by the respective Insurer to determine the market value of the vehicle at the point of the claim.
We have historically offered agreed value policies on a free of charge basis to owners of extensively modified cars.
There is an assessment process involving a requirement for photographs to highlight vehicle condition, along with copies of receipts for vehicle modifications.
If details/receipts are not available or photographs highlight poor condition, this may impact upon the valuation.
Valuing Modified vehicles
This process may differ from Insurer to Insurer, but the outline process used in the event that an identical/similar vehicle cannot be found for sale upon sites such as pistonheads would be as follows:
The condition of the vehicle would be assessed, with a base value being determined by the inspecting engineer/assessor. Glass's/Parkers guides would also be referred to by some Insurers to assist with the base vehicle value (before modifications). Service histories, overall condition and mileage would influence the base price.
Having determined the base vehicle value, modifications would then be listed and assessed for their impact in monetary terms upon the vehicle.
Bearing in mind that the base value does often include a part upon the vehicle that will form part of the base value, where parts are already present the Insurer would usually add the difference between the base and modified part, then where applicable apply wear & tear (if any).
A standard vehicle being fitted with after market Alloy wheels would effectively increase the value by the difference between the cost to replace the standard wheels and the new after market wheels.
This being on the basis that the standard wheels would be form part of the base value, if these were removed and replaced with after market parts you would effectively be reducing the value by the cost of the wheels removed - then replacing them with the after market wheels.
Taking this a step further you would then effectively apply the same equation (to that demonstrated with the alloy wheel example) to all parts. In the event that parts were not present you would add the full market value of the individual part concerned.
Like for like replacement
Bearing in mind that most of the specialist brokers will be using the same Insurance providers/Insurers as we do (albeit with differing pricing structures dependent upon performance with that particular Insurer) it is likely that anyone offering like for like replacement cover would be doing do on the same basis as we do.
To clarify, like for like replacement of modified parts is designed to replace after market parts with the identical part (equivalent or cash value in event that the part is obsolete) in event of a repairable/replaceable incident.
This effectively applies in the event a vehicle has parts stolen from it, or has parts damaged in an accident that does not result in the vehicle being a total loss (write off).
If the vehicle is classed as a total loss it is likely that it will be valued as described above within the Market value, Agreed Value and valuing modified vehicle area.
To conclude
We are the same operation as we always were, we have experienced massive system issues between July 2007-June 2008 which have led to a number of work-arounds to maintain a service.
The work-arounds are being unravelled as we go and as the latest system purchased (launched June 2008) delivers what it's predecessor should have.
The long and short of it is - "I.T. - cant live with it, cant live without it...."
As mentioned before, I'm aiming to contact as many of you as possible within this thread via PM over the next week with a view to discussing your experiences further.
Kindest regards & apologies for the Epic.
Tony Fehily
Senior Partner
Greenlight Insurance
Last edited by Tony @ Greenlight; 17-12-2008 at 10:47 AM. Reason: .
11-12-2008 | 06:17 PM
#49
i have been insured with greenlight 4 some 11yrs now&although i have had some i
increase most yrs in premiums ,so far they are at least 50% cheaper than adrian flux
&the service has always been very helpfull so thank you Tony 4 helping me 2 afford 2 keep my pride and joy on the road
increase most yrs in premiums ,so far they are at least 50% cheaper than adrian flux
&the service has always been very helpfull so thank you Tony 4 helping me 2 afford 2 keep my pride and joy on the road
11-12-2008 | 08:36 PM
#50
Happily retired
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,707
Likes: 237
From: Hampshire
Interesting Tony but not the way it was when my insurance lapsed.
I rang up, they didnt know a PF contact & it was clear the person that answered didnt know a modded car from her earrings. I was classified as a new customer & had to apply on-line.
They would have sent the men in white coats round if I had put 1000+bhp in the Power box, some cars cant be done by this method im afraid.
. Went to Flux & talked to a human, he knew the car, car insured EASY.
I agree than when the PF contact found out I received a quote post haste & yes it was cheaper, but I had already paid.
I rang up, they didnt know a PF contact & it was clear the person that answered didnt know a modded car from her earrings. I was classified as a new customer & had to apply on-line.
They would have sent the men in white coats round if I had put 1000+bhp in the Power box, some cars cant be done by this method im afraid.
. Went to Flux & talked to a human, he knew the car, car insured EASY. I agree than when the PF contact found out I received a quote post haste & yes it was cheaper, but I had already paid
.
11-12-2008 | 09:24 PM
#51
Works @ Greenlight
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Essex
Hello
Tony will be away for a few days so it is unlikely he will post during that time. He will answer any questions he can when he returns.
I would like to say that the quote system can handle heavily modified cars and has done so for vehicles over 700BHP. With a car so heavily modified the spec list is going to be very long, this can be cut and pasted from an existing spec list straight into the quote form saving time.
The quote given online would be the same as a quotation given over the phone, they would be handled by the same people but the form just speeds up the process.
Using this method you can enter a quotation anytime day or night at your leisure, none of the holding or queuing that would likely happen if we were to open the phone lines up to new quotations again. Once you have a quote you can still call us to make minor alterations, add drivers or just check through some details.
@MadRod,I wonder if you have us confused with another company. We do not have any woman working at Greenlight and everyone here knows Tony posts on Passion Ford. Regardless, I am sorry we were not able to help you.
Regards
Tony will be away for a few days so it is unlikely he will post during that time. He will answer any questions he can when he returns.
I would like to say that the quote system can handle heavily modified cars and has done so for vehicles over 700BHP. With a car so heavily modified the spec list is going to be very long, this can be cut and pasted from an existing spec list straight into the quote form saving time.
The quote given online would be the same as a quotation given over the phone, they would be handled by the same people but the form just speeds up the process.
Using this method you can enter a quotation anytime day or night at your leisure, none of the holding or queuing that would likely happen if we were to open the phone lines up to new quotations again. Once you have a quote you can still call us to make minor alterations, add drivers or just check through some details.
@MadRod,I wonder if you have us confused with another company. We do not have any woman working at Greenlight and everyone here knows Tony posts on Passion Ford. Regardless, I am sorry we were not able to help you.
Regards
17-12-2008 | 09:58 AM
#52
Happily retired
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,707
Likes: 237
From: Hampshire
Some of us have way more than 700bhp although your company failed to accept that, some of us have 1000bhp non bullshit.
.
17-12-2008 | 12:43 PM
#53
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Brentwood, Essex
Hi Rod,
We've clearly annoyed you, which was never the intention.
My colleague explained on here in my absence that I would respond to you individually, so here goes to the best of my ability:
Your policy with us had expired back in 2007 after several successful years as a loyal customer of ours, which were appreciated. Your policies were administered under our original (Cheshire Data) computer operating system that we had used for some 9 years.
As explained in my lengthy post above, we had attempted to improve our efficiency, flexibility and customer access by switching to what was sold as a ‘cutting edge’ system which we went live upon in July 2007.
Once trained and installed it was apparent that the alleged ‘all singing, all dancing’ system in July 2007 was more of an artists impression. What we actually had was a broken Beta at best.
We endured hundreds of constant errors courtesy of this system for some 5 months, which led to numerous work-arounds and decisions were taken to limit customer inconvenience. Telephone quotations for new customers being something that was replaced with our directing customers online for the application process (due to telephone quote processing taking 25-30 minutes due to the lethargy of the failing system)
In December 2007, we took the view that the system was not fit for purpose and sourced an alternative that could perform.
A period of due diligence ensued, followed by trade references etc and following this we switched away from the failing system to one that actually works in June 2008.
Once we had identified that the new (TGSL) system could do what we needed, were developing the right areas and was as future proof as it could be, we switched asap by getting the basics of the new system up and running, then moved to gain efficiency and unravel work-arounds under the old system since (which is a process that is still ongoing).
Whilst not everyone’s cup of tea, having to place a modified car online with us isn’t too onerous a process.
1) Most enthusiasts (of which we consider you most definitely one) do keep full details of their specification, some in MS Word or Excel which you can copy and paste your spec list into the free format modification area of the application.
2) Once submitted, you can still call to discuss the application via the telephone
3) Due to the individual nature of modified vehicles these are assessed by a human being, who is looking for the best offer they can obtain with the cover that suits your individual circumstances
4) We are able to cater for ANY BHP (700, 900, 1000) without limit, we also cover just about every modification (inc Nitrous – as you know, roll cages etc)
5) A point I wish to reiterate is that we do not get paid for quotations, we only get paid a set commission for policy sales and thus it is in our interests to find the best deal we can with the right cover for each and every applicant.
6) We ask for a mobile phone number in order that an SMS/Text can be sent to the applicant advising that the quote has been processed, an e-mail confirmation has been sent, your quotation reference number and our contact number to discuss the quotation with us
I do take the point that an online application is less personal than a telephone application, which isn’t something that I’m personally happy with but hopefully you can understand that the intention of this at the time was to save customers the unrealistic length of time it was taking to process a new quotation.
Just about all of our marketing is online these days, thus we hoped that with members/prospective customers already being online to have seen our details we hoped that copying and pasting within the free format modification area wouldn’t be too onerous.
Especially as you can call to discuss the application once made (as encouraged within our SMS/Text and e-mail to you.
It is likely that we will revert to telephone applications in the future, but at this stage (with Insurance contracts being annual) we have to run off the failed operating system and unravel all work arounds before doing so.
I have been involved with Passion ford for some 6 years now and everyone here is aware that I am the point of referral/contact for PF members or scheme issues.
Having reviewed your prior policies with us in full, your online application and the telephone calls in relation to this I can confirm that you made our staff member aware that you were a passion ford member and the Gold concession was applied to your quotation.
I can confirm you spoke with Darren here when discussing your application, Darren’s daily driver for the last 2 years is a Modified Ford Escort.
You did explain forcefully upon several occasions that we wouldn’t entertain your vehicle if it was put online, telling Darren that we would not cover your vehicle. We reiterated that it would not be a problem, advising courteously that you could easily list modifications within the free format area and we could cater for ANY BHP – to put your mind at rest and reassure you that you would not be wasting your time.
With there being a lengthy gap in cover since we last covered you and a variance in the vehicle specification, we advised the best route to be an online application as this would guarantee we had the latest details.
We rate upon what is declared by our customer upon the application, whilst your application was not for 1000BHP, you could enter 1000BHP upon our application and we would provide terms for this.
Being a prior customer who had agreed value policies with extensive modifications declared with us (the specifications of which were altered upwards annually) you already knew no matter how extensive the modifications we had never employed the ‘men in white coats’ before.
With a customer such as yourself with a proven pedigree for extensive modifications and already one of the highest BHP Cosworth conversions you’ll ever see we would always take you at face value (ie. If you declare 1000BHP we would look into the detail of the conversion, but would have no reason to doubt what you were telling us)
Whilst I still agree that an online application is initially less personal, listing your modifications via the telephone or online does achieve the same end result and would take roughly the same amount of time either way.
Again, I’d reiterate that you could also discuss the online application once made – we encourage this and by and large you are dealing with the same staff that offered the good historic service to you.
On a personal note, having known and covered you for years I’m glad that you managed to source cover painlessly.
Whilst I can provide quotations, quotation applications are directed straight to our technical sales guys and are not usually handled by me directly unless flagged by me to do so.
This is both annoying and frustrating for all concerned, you had been a good customer of ours who would have saved some cash (compared to the Flux offer) for the level of cover that you had been used to historically and we would have loved to have retained your business
Having conducted a full review of your details (inc historic records for all policies, application and ensuing calls) I think this was just a case of our process not suiting you (ie. online application) at the time and due to your vehicle specification being what can only be described as ‘Epic’ you did not believe that our system would work or quote (when it actually did)
Kindest regards & Best wishes
Tony
We've clearly annoyed you, which was never the intention.
My colleague explained on here in my absence that I would respond to you individually, so here goes to the best of my ability:
Your policy with us had expired back in 2007 after several successful years as a loyal customer of ours, which were appreciated. Your policies were administered under our original (Cheshire Data) computer operating system that we had used for some 9 years.
As explained in my lengthy post above, we had attempted to improve our efficiency, flexibility and customer access by switching to what was sold as a ‘cutting edge’ system which we went live upon in July 2007.
Once trained and installed it was apparent that the alleged ‘all singing, all dancing’ system in July 2007 was more of an artists impression. What we actually had was a broken Beta at best.
We endured hundreds of constant errors courtesy of this system for some 5 months, which led to numerous work-arounds and decisions were taken to limit customer inconvenience. Telephone quotations for new customers being something that was replaced with our directing customers online for the application process (due to telephone quote processing taking 25-30 minutes due to the lethargy of the failing system)
In December 2007, we took the view that the system was not fit for purpose and sourced an alternative that could perform.
A period of due diligence ensued, followed by trade references etc and following this we switched away from the failing system to one that actually works in June 2008.
Once we had identified that the new (TGSL) system could do what we needed, were developing the right areas and was as future proof as it could be, we switched asap by getting the basics of the new system up and running, then moved to gain efficiency and unravel work-arounds under the old system since (which is a process that is still ongoing).
Whilst not everyone’s cup of tea, having to place a modified car online with us isn’t too onerous a process.
1) Most enthusiasts (of which we consider you most definitely one) do keep full details of their specification, some in MS Word or Excel which you can copy and paste your spec list into the free format modification area of the application.
2) Once submitted, you can still call to discuss the application via the telephone
3) Due to the individual nature of modified vehicles these are assessed by a human being, who is looking for the best offer they can obtain with the cover that suits your individual circumstances
4) We are able to cater for ANY BHP (700, 900, 1000) without limit, we also cover just about every modification (inc Nitrous – as you know, roll cages etc)
5) A point I wish to reiterate is that we do not get paid for quotations, we only get paid a set commission for policy sales and thus it is in our interests to find the best deal we can with the right cover for each and every applicant.
6) We ask for a mobile phone number in order that an SMS/Text can be sent to the applicant advising that the quote has been processed, an e-mail confirmation has been sent, your quotation reference number and our contact number to discuss the quotation with us
I do take the point that an online application is less personal than a telephone application, which isn’t something that I’m personally happy with but hopefully you can understand that the intention of this at the time was to save customers the unrealistic length of time it was taking to process a new quotation.
Just about all of our marketing is online these days, thus we hoped that with members/prospective customers already being online to have seen our details we hoped that copying and pasting within the free format modification area wouldn’t be too onerous.
Especially as you can call to discuss the application once made (as encouraged within our SMS/Text and e-mail to you.
It is likely that we will revert to telephone applications in the future, but at this stage (with Insurance contracts being annual) we have to run off the failed operating system and unravel all work arounds before doing so.
I have been involved with Passion ford for some 6 years now and everyone here is aware that I am the point of referral/contact for PF members or scheme issues.
Having reviewed your prior policies with us in full, your online application and the telephone calls in relation to this I can confirm that you made our staff member aware that you were a passion ford member and the Gold concession was applied to your quotation.
I can confirm you spoke with Darren here when discussing your application, Darren’s daily driver for the last 2 years is a Modified Ford Escort.
You did explain forcefully upon several occasions that we wouldn’t entertain your vehicle if it was put online, telling Darren that we would not cover your vehicle. We reiterated that it would not be a problem, advising courteously that you could easily list modifications within the free format area and we could cater for ANY BHP – to put your mind at rest and reassure you that you would not be wasting your time.
With there being a lengthy gap in cover since we last covered you and a variance in the vehicle specification, we advised the best route to be an online application as this would guarantee we had the latest details.
We rate upon what is declared by our customer upon the application, whilst your application was not for 1000BHP, you could enter 1000BHP upon our application and we would provide terms for this.
Being a prior customer who had agreed value policies with extensive modifications declared with us (the specifications of which were altered upwards annually) you already knew no matter how extensive the modifications we had never employed the ‘men in white coats’ before.
With a customer such as yourself with a proven pedigree for extensive modifications and already one of the highest BHP Cosworth conversions you’ll ever see we would always take you at face value (ie. If you declare 1000BHP we would look into the detail of the conversion, but would have no reason to doubt what you were telling us)
Whilst I still agree that an online application is initially less personal, listing your modifications via the telephone or online does achieve the same end result and would take roughly the same amount of time either way.
Again, I’d reiterate that you could also discuss the online application once made – we encourage this and by and large you are dealing with the same staff that offered the good historic service to you.
On a personal note, having known and covered you for years I’m glad that you managed to source cover painlessly.
Whilst I can provide quotations, quotation applications are directed straight to our technical sales guys and are not usually handled by me directly unless flagged by me to do so.
This is both annoying and frustrating for all concerned, you had been a good customer of ours who would have saved some cash (compared to the Flux offer) for the level of cover that you had been used to historically and we would have loved to have retained your business
Having conducted a full review of your details (inc historic records for all policies, application and ensuing calls) I think this was just a case of our process not suiting you (ie. online application) at the time and due to your vehicle specification being what can only be described as ‘Epic’ you did not believe that our system would work or quote (when it actually did)
Kindest regards & Best wishes
Tony
17-12-2008 | 04:41 PM
#54
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Brentwood, Essex
Hi Paul,
From what I have seen so far, one of the main problems seems to relate to customers with expired/lapsed policies who wish to arrange further cover being unhappy with having to apply online.
The re-application online was required where there has been changes in modifications/record since their last policy, but I can understand that whilst some people dont mind the online application followed by a discussion, some people would prefer to discuss the whole thing via the telephone.
It's likely we will be moving back to reinstating telephone applications for new quotations once our latest operating system has settled in and the work arounds under the broken beta of a system we endured between July 2007 - June 2008 are undone.
From your personal case perspective renewing your policy will still not be a problem.
Lapsing the policy, keeping the car off the road and coming back without changes would also not be a problem via the telephone.
One point that I cannot labour enough is that i'm here to help anyone who needs a hand, via either PM or through calling the office.
If i'm unavailable when you call/PM and you need an instant answer for anything there are several people here who can help - i'd recommend you ask for Neil, Barry or Darren here, as these guys have also been involved with Passion ford members over the years.
Kind regards
Tony
From what I have seen so far, one of the main problems seems to relate to customers with expired/lapsed policies who wish to arrange further cover being unhappy with having to apply online.
The re-application online was required where there has been changes in modifications/record since their last policy, but I can understand that whilst some people dont mind the online application followed by a discussion, some people would prefer to discuss the whole thing via the telephone.
It's likely we will be moving back to reinstating telephone applications for new quotations once our latest operating system has settled in and the work arounds under the broken beta of a system we endured between July 2007 - June 2008 are undone.
From your personal case perspective renewing your policy will still not be a problem.
Lapsing the policy, keeping the car off the road and coming back without changes would also not be a problem via the telephone.
If i'm unavailable when you call/PM and you need an instant answer for anything there are several people here who can help - i'd recommend you ask for Neil, Barry or Darren here, as these guys have also been involved with Passion ford members over the years.
Kind regards
Tony
17-12-2008 | 05:12 PM
#55
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Brentwood, Essex
Hi Paul,
I managed to trace and reply to your PM's, which related to Greenlight providing advice/assistance to members upon your zippyracing forum.
Not having set the PM criteria properly to alert the correct e-mail address when PMs were received didnt help, but a 'nudge' from Mike "Guardian Angel" Rainbird did.
Thus the reply today
Kind regards
Tony
I managed to trace and reply to your PM's, which related to Greenlight providing advice/assistance to members upon your zippyracing forum.
Not having set the PM criteria properly to alert the correct e-mail address when PMs were received didnt help, but a 'nudge' from Mike "Guardian Angel" Rainbird did.
Thus the reply today
Kind regards
Tony
17-12-2008 | 05:19 PM
#56
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Brentwood, Essex
Sorry Andy,
You have to be over 21 for us.
Glad you managed to source a decent deal from Flux though, both Flux and their subsidiary Herts (HIC) are genuine specialists with a long track record for covering performance/modified cars - so you should be more than ok with them
You have to be over 21 for us.
Glad you managed to source a decent deal from Flux though, both Flux and their subsidiary Herts (HIC) are genuine specialists with a long track record for covering performance/modified cars - so you should be more than ok with them
17-12-2008 | 05:29 PM
#57
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Brentwood, Essex
Hi Twellsie,
Many thanks for the Kind words
I've tried to explain as best as I could within this thread as to why we are structured as we are from a new quotation application perspective, which appears to be the main problem.
One point I wish to reinforce is that renewal customers who renew on time, or at a later stage but with exactly the same detail will still be able to do this via the telephone.
Kind regards
Tony
Many thanks for the Kind words
I've tried to explain as best as I could within this thread as to why we are structured as we are from a new quotation application perspective, which appears to be the main problem.
One point I wish to reinforce is that renewal customers who renew on time, or at a later stage but with exactly the same detail will still be able to do this via the telephone.
Kind regards
Tony
19-12-2008 | 10:49 AM
#58
Regular Contributor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: West Yorkshire
Quote "We do have several Underwriters that can "mirror" your NCB percentage onto a second car, which as an example if you had 65% 4 years NCB upon your first car and were free of fault/non-recoverable claims for the period of the discount we could source an Underwriter to mirror the percentage. resulting in 65% 0 years.
If you were claim free, the 65% 0 years would then become 65% 1 year from renewal and increase in the same manner each year" end of quote
I am sorry but I rang about this also - I have a modded focusST with you, full NCB etc. and was told if you dont have no claims on the 2nd car then sorry we cannot help you.
normally I run 3 cars - 2 permanent with 2 separate full NCB's and occasional winter car which never accumulates any NCB (but means the summer cars are garaged very securely and minimal driving - so low risk - and the guy I spoke to wasnt interested in a multi car policy either - he basically implied I needed NCB for all cars.
I find insuring modded cars so much hard work these days - I am contemplating returning it to standard and save myslef a whole heap of money and hassle.
no point contacting me ref. PM's- I will ring when renewal due - if I get good service fine - if I dont I will move on.
If you were claim free, the 65% 0 years would then become 65% 1 year from renewal and increase in the same manner each year" end of quote
I am sorry but I rang about this also - I have a modded focusST with you, full NCB etc. and was told if you dont have no claims on the 2nd car then sorry we cannot help you.
normally I run 3 cars - 2 permanent with 2 separate full NCB's and occasional winter car which never accumulates any NCB (but means the summer cars are garaged very securely and minimal driving - so low risk - and the guy I spoke to wasnt interested in a multi car policy either - he basically implied I needed NCB for all cars.
I find insuring modded cars so much hard work these days - I am contemplating returning it to standard and save myslef a whole heap of money and hassle.
no point contacting me ref. PM's- I will ring when renewal due - if I get good service fine - if I dont I will move on.
19-12-2008 | 12:00 PM
#59
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
From: Brentwood, Essex
Hi Woodside,
Standard family cars form less than 1% of our overall business and mirrored NCB for standard cars is not a core product, which may be why the individual concerned here did not recognise this. But if you can let me know when you called I will trace the call and take this up with the individuals concerned.
Presumably you were looking to cover your 3rd (winter?) vehicle (the one without NCB), which if standard can be placed under our mirrored NCB scheme for a quotation.
If you can PM me the vehicle make, model, cc, value & year (along with the annual mileage you will be covering) - I will personally run a 'mirrored' NCB quotation and provide details.
Kind regards
Tony
Standard family cars form less than 1% of our overall business and mirrored NCB for standard cars is not a core product, which may be why the individual concerned here did not recognise this. But if you can let me know when you called I will trace the call and take this up with the individuals concerned.
Presumably you were looking to cover your 3rd (winter?) vehicle (the one without NCB), which if standard can be placed under our mirrored NCB scheme for a quotation.
If you can PM me the vehicle make, model, cc, value & year (along with the annual mileage you will be covering) - I will personally run a 'mirrored' NCB quotation and provide details.
Kind regards
Tony
23-12-2008 | 11:57 AM
#60
Regular Contributor
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: West Yorkshire
Hello Tony thanks for the reply - I have sorted the car out now, it was just annoying at the time as though my business was a hassle.
I have tried to ring to speak to you in the past ref. insuring my cars - but never can get through to you (I know and appreciate thats why you employ staff).
I will try to contact you when renewals/change crops up which probably wont be till mid 2009 now.
cheers David
I have tried to ring to speak to you in the past ref. insuring my cars - but never can get through to you (I know and appreciate thats why you employ staff).
I will try to contact you when renewals/change crops up which probably wont be till mid 2009 now.
cheers David
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